Author Topic: a lesson in writting utter lies!  (Read 9978 times)

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Offline PIAC

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a lesson in writting utter lies!
« on: August 16, 2003, 05:00:12 AM »
stear clear if you value your brain (sic)

read this, then explode, compose your self, then cry at the lack of intelligence contained in the world -__-  

Offline Grey Ninja

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RE: a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2003, 05:27:08 AM »
Yeah, I don't know why I just read that.  It's a bunch of complete crap.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2003, 06:13:08 AM »
i didn't bother to read it, even when you gave me the link on MSN, but i think i'll post here anyway
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Offline KnowsNothing

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RE: a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2003, 06:20:15 AM »
I couldn't read past two paragraphs.  As said by some guy in Billy Madison, "we are all dumber for having heard that"
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2003, 06:28:43 AM »
That quote's pissing me off- it's hilarious, but I can't remember exactly how it goes. I'm gonna find it!

BAM!

Principal: Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
"You know you're being too serious when Mouse tells you to lighten up... ^_^"<BR>-Bill

Offline PIAC

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RE: a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2003, 06:34:15 AM »
replace mr. madison with mr. Hivner and your all set

Offline ThePerm

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2003, 08:27:56 AM »
well its not entirely bad......i read the whole thing. Its just not well written. I can see his point, and i think Nintendo is doing just as he is wishing. They are going to start making far more games....for the next console at least...expect titles for gamecube to become few and far between from now till 2005 and then hopefully(and prolly not knowing Nintendo) there will be a massive launch. Except the last line is retarted and the Billy Madison line is warented.
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Offline Uglydot

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2003, 09:11:21 AM »
That is one terrible writter, no I didn't finish it; wasn't worth it.

Offline PIAC

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RE: a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2003, 05:16:01 PM »
Quote

nd the sales of their GBA SP have slowed to a crawl (I think this has a lot to do with Nintendo's over-zealous Super NES game porting instead of offering original content).


what i found the most disturbing, as that is utterlies in 2 facets, 1 the SP is selling like hot cakes, and 2 there is original content, its just that the ports are selling as well as the original content, there is both. and if the ports are selling... arn't nintendo giving its customers what they want? yawn

Offline Djunknown

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2003, 10:59:37 PM »
After reading it entirely it seems that that the writer is mis-informed and seems to be selecting facts to argue his case which can easliy be countered. Oddly enough, he didn't leave an E-mail address...

For a more tasteful constructive criticsim of Nintendo, Go to Nintendojo.com either in the features or Editorials section. Strangely enough , that one is called "The Nintendo (In)Difference" but it probably pre-dates it by a few months. A rebuttal is also freatured, so you could walk away with both sides of the tale.

One of his points was during the 16-bit era involving Mortal Kombat. No doubt Nintendo was playing Censor during those days, but has long since changed their tune.

His Gameboy argument is easily shut-down by simply looking at the record: Game Gear and Lynx did have color but it was too bulky, too expensive and not enough games. The Gameboy line is still around with nary a scratch it can't lick. eventually when the technology was affordable did the Big N press on (Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Color.) Now if he said something like how Nintendo cannabalized the GBC for the GBA (3 year difference), is up for debate, he simply didn't get that angle.

Sony being a newcomer? That's half true. Someone needs to inform him that Sony's PS1 was a culmination of Nintendo and Sony working together to bring a CD based-system. Again, he could've picked a valid argument that Nintendo got greedy (The argreement would have that Nintendo wouldn't get the lion's share like they were use to in the NES) and went with Philips to make the abomination that was the CD-i, lending some of Nintendo's franchises (Though Nintendo didn't develop for it.) That didn't work out well; Sony took the research it was working with Nintendo and went on their own, releasing it a couple of years later.

The Sega Saturn beat Sony to the gate in the U.S.A  but it was expanisive and the devolopers werent ready for it. Even then it was hard to hard program and didn't have enough 3rd party support (Though the Panzer Dragoon series and Nights into Dreams have nearly become legends). The writer could have mentioned the delays in releasing the Nintendo 64, but he missed that boat. Oh, and Mario 64 wipes the floor with all the Tomb Raider games on PS1 combined but that's bordering on fanyboyism...

Mini-DVD? Granted the file sizes are small but the Writer forgot the mention that its almost unhackable, Xbox and PS2 emulators are plausible, but Gamecube Emulator is virtually IMpossible. Simple case of Covering Your Ass after being ridiculously being hacked (GBA probably being the last link) since the NES. This is another argument he could've brought up but that pumpkinhead ain't feeding him the right info.

Going Online? Even Gamer Mags have it that Nintendo is denying the existance of Online play. They gotta go back to reccent interviews and get the facts straight. They will get there, and if pulled off correctly, they will get there with the last laugh. I will give him the connectivity argument; there's not much improvement in that area, but I believe Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles will show the best of GCN-GBA connections.

The whole Rare story is Soooo 2002 and no need to go over it.  Just look at this years E3 for proof: Nintendo's counting that cash and making good use of it.

And what kills the writer's credibility was that whole "gotta make deals with 3rd parties" B.S He simply rolled over the fact that realizing that the "Colaborations" is almost Brainchild Heaven. Its the best minds of the business getting together and guess what? Its exclusive.

Long story short, I can probably take this guy's job, and no doubt many of you too. Now if he only left  an E-mail address... but he will get flodded by fanboys, but he might find a rebutal like this one and simply get enlightened by the very text. Oh well. Can you save them all?
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Offline Shift Key

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2003, 04:44:58 AM »
*explodes*

Nah, some just can't be saved. No matter how many words (or hits of a baseball bat) can be beated into an idiot can they have their minds opened.

Yes, the mini-DVD is unhackable. Because the data is written in the opposite direction to normal DVD drives, it is near impossible to read, let alone duplicate.
Meanwhile, piracy of XBOX and PS2 games is rising. But he didn't mention that did he?
I stopped reading after the Mortal Kombat bit, because I'm sick of hearing it.

OMG IT HAS BLOOD. ITS THE L33T3ST EVA! *dies*

And the light argument? WTF. There are many good lights available, especially for the GBA, and that's one reason why I can wait for an SP.

Yeah, I'd spam this guy good if he had the guts to back up on this gutless column.
*starts searching*

EDIT: OMG, He's the Sony Editor. He couldn't possibly be biased. He must know everything in the world.
And his e-mail is there. Look under "Contact Us" in the menu bar. Or click here

Offline rpglover

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2003, 05:04:43 AM »
"Analyze very closely what Miyamoto said in the above statement, and you can easily deduce that this guy and his company really believed that one or two hit games a year is all it's going to take to have a successful platform. Meaning that, Nintendo thinks it's perfectly fine to make your user base wait months to play a game, because as long as those titles are held to the highest standard of quality, all other sins should be forgiven."

that statement just annoys me- personally i dont mind if nintendo's quality over quanity stance stays with them
i would rather have a game made for 3 years and extreamly well polished than the same crap over and over again each year
if nintendo's big titles started to make an appearence every year, i think they would loose their charm
i like what nintendo is doing with 3rd parties- getting them to make high polished nintendo franchise titles so they can spend their time and resources to make their games to the highest quality possible- i always expect that from nintendo and that is what i always get from them- good games, even if they are in the making for a long time
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Offline Berny

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2003, 07:14:32 AM »
I agree rpglover. What really made me mad was this:

"Third parties aren't developing original titles for the platform, and even ports from other machines are getting more scarce by the day; meaning that just like with the N64, Nintendo is still relying on their own first party studios to make up for the absent third party content."

That ignorant fool actually had the nerve to write (type. sorry) that? I don't think this guy even knows what Nintendo is. THEY DON'T MAKE CALCULATORS! He obviously isn't very up-to-date on Nintendo at all. I could fill this text box with the names of exclusive third party titles that are GREAT. Like rpglover said, they're even giving THEIR licences to third parties so they can make newer games. Direct from Nintendo we've seen Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, and Pikmin. (Forgive me if I've forgotten any.)
PIAC, I could not have thought up a better name for this thread.  
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Offline PIAC

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RE: a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2003, 09:56:52 AM »
yes well, thanks to the handy work of shifty, i think i shall email him with this thread no?

Offline Berny

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2003, 10:03:49 AM »
By all means, PIAC, fill his inbox to the final byte. Then I can die happy.
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Offline Hostile Creation

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2003, 10:27:35 AM »
Before you do so, let me make this post just so he can be sure that he is, indeed, an idiot.

Mr., you are an idiot.
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Offline Jack Lantern

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2003, 12:59:55 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: DjunknownOddly enough, he didn't leave an E-mail address...


You can always find a writer's e-mail on the staff page.

Quote

One of his points was during the 16-bit era involving Mortal Kombat. No doubt Nintendo was playing Censor during those days, but has long since changed their tune.


Wrong.  Nintendo, though not censoring their games, are still marketing their "family friendly" attitude.  The article was explaining the different approach Nintendo took BACK IN THAT DAY.  The article made no mention that Nintendo continues to censor today.  perhaps you read way too far into it.  But, if you feel that Nintendo themselves are any more mature because of... what, Eternal Darkness?  You are kidding yourself.  They are as family friendly now as they ever were.

Quote

His Gameboy argument is easily shut-down by simply looking at the record: Game Gear and Lynx did have color but it was too bulky, too expensive and not enough games. The Gameboy line is still around with nary a scratch it can't lick. eventually when the technology was affordable did the Big N press on (Game Boy Pocket, Game Boy Color.) Now if he said something like how Nintendo cannabalized the GBC for the GBA (3 year difference), is up for debate, he simply didn't get that angle.


This particular editorial is obviously geared toward those who understand WHY the Gameboy suceeded as long as it did.  Every other handheld you mentioned (and others) were far more competent and sophisticated competitors, but with less money and marketing know-how than Nintendo.  Not bulk.  The amount of games WOULD be a good argument, except that Nntendo's competition wasn't around long enough to build a solid portfolio of games, making the point moot.

Quote

Sony being a newcomer? That's half true. Someone needs to inform him that Sony's PS1 was a culmination of Nintendo and Sony working together to bring a CD based-system. Again, he could've picked a valid argument that Nintendo got greedy (The argreement would have that Nintendo wouldn't get the lion's share like they were use to in the NES) and went with Philips to make the abomination that was the CD-i, lending some of Nintendo's franchises (Though Nintendo didn't develop for it.) That didn't work out well; Sony took the research it was working with Nintendo and went on their own, releasing it a couple of years later.


Wrongo, sir.  It's fully true.  Sony was a newcomer to the console market when the PlayStation arrived.  The PSX was Sony's first console.  Working together with Nintendo in the past has absolutley nothing to do with the article, OR the writer's arguments.  Actually, the PlayStation was built and finished just to take on Nintendo after the company dropped the deal with Sony at the last minute.  The CD-based "PlayStation", that was actually meant to be an add-on to the Super NES, never surfaced.  But again, even if it did, that doesn't tie-in to the article at all, or the author's point.  

Quote

The writer could have mentioned the delays in releasing the Nintendo 64, but he missed that boat. Oh, and Mario 64 wipes the floor with all the Tomb Raider games on PS1 combined but that's bordering on fanyboyism...


Again, your unneccesary history lesson doesn't even tie in to the article at all, and your above statement crossed the line of fanboyism already.  Though I agree there is no Tomb Raider that could ever outdo Mario 64.

Quote

Mini-DVD? Granted the file sizes are small but the Writer forgot the mention that its almost unhackable, Xbox and PS2 emulators are plausible, but Gamecube Emulator is virtually IMpossible. Simple case of Covering Your Ass after being ridiculously being hacked (GBA probably being the last link) since the NES. This is another argument he could've brought up but that pumpkinhead ain't feeding him the right info.


The writer of this editorial has absolutely no reason to mention the anti-piracy benefits offered by mini-disks because again, the argument is moot.  The writer is mentioning the mini disks to make readers realize that, thanks to the file size, there are actually games that aren't even possible on GameCube.  Did you know that a relatively simple-made game called Max Payne isn't possible on the GC?  A very linear game can't be done because the Cube's storage management actually LIMITS what the GC could otherwise handle with ease.  The anti-piracy disks DO help Nintendo, but they certainly don't help gamers.

Quote

Going Online? Even Gamer Mags have it that Nintendo is denying the existance of Online play. They gotta go back to reccent interviews and get the facts straight. They will get there, and if pulled off correctly, they will get there with the last laugh. I will give him the connectivity argument; there's not much improvement in that area, but I believe Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles will show the best of GCN-GBA connections.


Uhh... you offer nothing to counter an online argument.  Nintendo is not only dissing online play for this gen, online may not come into fruition until well into next gen either.  Instead, the company is pushing GC/GBA connectivity; a poor substitute, and NOT what Cube owners want.  They want to play Mario Kart online, not Pac-Man.

And, even if your claim that FF will fully realize the possibilities of the GC/GBA connection were to happen, why should any gamer have to go out and buy a GBA in the first place?  Because it's a self-serving way for Nintendo to make more money for themselves.  "Buy both systems, and you'll be able to connect them with a cable that we also make you buy".  Ask 90% of Cube owners, and they'll tell you they'd rather have online than GC/GBA connectivity any day.  But despite the cries, Nintendo will ignore, instead pushing this cheap, poor man's substitute on gamers.  Fact: the real gaming industry (i.e. the gaming industry beyond Nintendo fanboys) could care less about connectivity.

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The whole Rare story is Soooo 2002 and no need to go over it.  Just look at this years E3 for proof: Nintendo's counting that cash and making good use of it.


I agree the Rare story is old, but no less true.  And you can fill me in anytime as to where that cash is going, because they've done nothing with it yet.

Quote

And what kills the writer's credibility was that whole "gotta make deals with 3rd parties" B.S He simply rolled over the fact that realizing that the "Colaborations" is almost Brainchild Heaven. Its the best minds of the business getting together and guess what? Its exclusive.


Ironically, what little credit you gained has been obliterated right here.  3rd parties are abandoning the console by the day.  Nintendo PAID Capcom to keep Resident Evil exclusive.  Nintendo PAID Konami for the rights to re-build Metal Gear Solid (and did you know that Kojima has absolutely NOTHING to do with the project?  He won't even be overseeing the game, though some members of the MGS team will supervise.  Even still, Nintendo had to get one of their own development houses -- Silicon Knights -- to actually develop the thing!)  Nintendo PAID EA to make 20 games that will utilize the GC/GBA connectivity.  Are you starting to see a pattern here?  Though you've gotta hand Nintendo credit for putting their money where their mouth is, they shouldn't have to pay 3rd parties money just get them on the platform.

All this being said, at least you argued your points one by one instead of what most do.  Unfortunately, your points do little to actually counter the article.  You actually bring up things that the article has nothing to do with.  Though I don't fully agree with the article myself, I can at least recognize that every single piece of factual content in that article is 100% true -- even if it doesn't suit your tastes.  After all, this is a Nintendo-loyal mesage board.  A truly unbiased opinion will be quite rare.




Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2003, 01:50:36 PM »
Quote

I agree the Rare story is old, but no less true. And you can fill me in anytime as to where that cash is going, because they've done nothing with it yet.


I'm so glad the CFO for NCL is on this message board right now to tell us this. :|
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Offline kennyb27

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2003, 02:43:35 PM »
Quote

Nintendo PAID Capcom to keep Resident Evil exclusive...Nintendo PAID Konami for the rights to re-build Metal Gear Solid...Nintendo PAID EA to make 20 games that will utilize the GC/GBA connectivity. Are you starting to see a pattern here?
Yeah, I am.  However, that is how business is run.  Sony PAYS Rockstar to develop GTA games only on their console.  Microsoft is PAYING Capcom to keep Steel Battalion exclusive on XBox.  If a company wants exclusives, they have to pay money for it, that's the point.  
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(and did you know that Kojima has absolutely NOTHING to do with the project? He won't even be overseeing the game, though some members of the MGS team will supervise. Even still, Nintendo had to get one of their own development houses -- Silicon Knights -- to actually develop the thing!)
Please don't post that BS here.  It was announced (and confirmed by Hideo Kojima himself, mind you) at E3 that Hideo Kojima would be supervising the game along with Shigeru Miyamoto.  And Kojima was asked by Miyamoto if he would mind SK developing the game.
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Offline ThePerm

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2003, 03:42:04 PM »
reguardless...this game is going to kick ass
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2003, 04:32:15 PM »
Kenny's right- Denis Dyack himself said Kojima's been very close to the project. I don't know what you would be accomplishing by saying Kojima wasn't involved, either. If what you're trying to get at is that Kojima doesn't really care about Nintendo, you're wrong- the man himself said Miyamoto's one of his idols and it's been his dream to work with him on a game.
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Offline Jack Lantern

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2003, 06:16:48 PM »
Sorry fellas, but Kojima confirmed in either EGM or GMR that he would not be involved with the Twin Snakes project.  Kojima DID say that he would be playing his role as "supervisor".  However, in the same line, he also said that he was going to be so busy with MGS3 that he wouldn't have time to contribute to Twin Snakes.  And being that Kojima's team have no Cube experience, it's up to Silicon Knights to develop the project -- which is exactly what the article said to begin with.

But, just as the supposed "wrong" editorial y'all are talking about above, it seems that overly-biased Nintendo fans can't accept reality for what it is.

In a way, I hope that the author of the article actually DOES respond to crap like this.  It seems that he is an actual "Nintendo" fan; one that can accept Nintendo for their mistakes, and push them to do better, rather than pretend no mistakes were made.


Offline Jack Lantern

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2003, 06:18:39 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Kenny's right- Denis Dyack himself said Kojima's been very close to the project. I don't know what you would be accomplishing by saying Kojima wasn't involved, either. If what you're trying to get at is that Kojima doesn't really care about Nintendo, you're wrong- the man himself said Miyamoto's one of his idols and it's been his dream to work with him on a game.


No, YOU"RE wrong for even IMPLYING that Kojima is close to the project.  Between MGS3 and Boktai for GBA, he hasn't the time.  And with no Cube experience, how CLOSE do you think he is?




Offline PIAC

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RE: a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2003, 06:28:01 PM »
errr this guy has posted lies, true that some of his editorial contains facts, saying things like 'sales of the gba sp have slowed to  a crawll because of excessive SNES ports' is out and out lies. and therefore his entire editorial, if it can even be called that, loses any credibility.

Offline kennyb27

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RE:a lesson in writting utter lies!
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2003, 07:45:18 PM »
Jack Lantern, what you seem to be implying is that Hideo Kojima would be relying completely on a foreign (in two ways) development team to develop his "baby."  That is just dumb.  The only way he would allow this is if his name and Konami's name are not attached the project, which is wrong.  He would not license out the game for Nintendo to make without his direction.  Another thing, you concede that he is indeed supervising, yet you say he is not contributing.  Is that somehow possible?  If one is managing a project, they are obviously contributing to its completion.  
Quote

But, just as the supposed "wrong" editorial y'all are talking about above, it seems that overly-biased Nintendo fans can't accept reality for what it is.

In a way, I hope that the author of the article actually DOES respond to crap like this. It seems that he is an actual "Nintendo" fan; one that can accept Nintendo for their mistakes, and push them to do better, rather than pretend no mistakes were made.
So what is this "reality" you refer to?  Is it the fact that Nintendo is ignoring its fans?  Hardly possible, although trailing the PS2 by many console sales, it has sold nearly 10 million GCNs.  Hardly a number to scoff at.  Obviously Nintendo is doing something right. Or maybe you are implying that Nintendo's supposed focus on "family friendly" mentality is wrong.  Well, if that is the case then why are the Nintendo franchises still some of the best selling games?  Do 10 year olds with their moms really have that kind of buying power?  Or is the reality the fact that Nintendo doesn't go along with other consoles' so called "trends" like disc size (Oh, by the way, the article mentions that GC games must be multi-disc in order to fit games in their entirety on to the disc.  I can think of a total of one GC game on multiple discs) or online gaming?  Well if the "trends" of the gaming world are so important then why aren't all of today's gaming consoles turning out to be like the Virtual Boy since that was a trend on its own.  Or is the reality the fact that they let the "savior of the 64," Rareware Studios, go?  If that was the case why did Nintendo cite lack of Rare sales as a reason to release them?  How many sales can be attributed to Rare now that they are with the newcomer to the market Microsoft?  I'm getting tired of going through the entire article trying to find this reality you are talking about.

If it's simply the fact that Nintendo is no longer the "cool" console then I appreciate you pointing that out considering everyone in these forums knows exactly how true that statement is.  Nintendo is not sitting on their collective hands staring off into the distance as they wonder what their competitors will do next.  In fact, if I recall correctly, Nintendo is the only company who has made it public that they are ready to announce their next console next spring.  

Now you're probably sitting there saying that this kid is a blind Nintendo follower, which couldn't be further from the truth.  I have my own ideas of some mistakes Nintendo has made and I have thought them over in my mind.  I expect them and "push" them (as you say) to correct many mistakes that they have made in this generation in the next one.  However, if you believe that Nintendo's mistakes include not conforming to what the other gaming companies are doing, then you are the one who is mistaken.  
-Kenny

Now Playing: I-Ninja (GC), Pokemon LeafGreen (GBA), Nintendogs (DS), Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour (GC)
Just Finished: Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker (GC), Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door (GC) Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap (GBA)
Need money for: Advance Wars: Dual St