Topic: Why All The "Perfect 10's" These Days

[Mario]

Oi, i love OOT, but i just like MM better. Both are great games.

[Zelda]

MM sux i lik oot a lot more ~_^

[Hemmorrhoid]

MM rocks, but OOT is the pinnacle, the unreached peak of videogame development
and the next game I see achieving similar greatness is Too Human (but that ofcourse is based on nothing but my hype)

[Internet Nomad]

10 was never meant to mean perfect (despite all those damn rating scales that say otherwise). It simply means the best of the best. If anything, I see less 10s being tossed around now than I did last generation. Everyone was so mesmerized by the flash of 3D, they were handing out the accolades left and right. Ocarina of Time, for example, shouldn't have gotten a 10/10 on any 100 point scale, but it picked them up everywhere. Release the game now instead of then (with updated graphics, of course), and you've still got one of the best ever, but not something worthy of 10 from IGN or GameSpot.

Everyone's calmed down this generation, so you don't see too many 10s floating around where 100, or even 20 point scales are put to use. The 10s are still there on the 10-point scales, but that really just means 9.5+. There's still a ton of those games coming out, right?

[Grey Ninja]

What's wrong with giving a game a 10?  This generation, I gave 10s to Resident Evil 0, Eternal Darkness, and Zelda: Wind Waker.  Do I think any of those games are perfect?  Hell no.  I just think that they have done what they do to a very high degree, and they are each deserving of a 10.  I am not about to nitpick each of those games just to drop the score.  If the game shows exceptional quality, and is obviously a cut above the rest, I will give it a 10 without question.

[Hemmorrhoid]

Look, why do you people always see 10/10 as the measure for perfection, perfection is relative.
I really think a 10 means that theres a game thats unbelievable fun, and has no flaws, ie nothing really wrong about it.

So thats the case with Zelda OOT, its hard or IMO almost impossible to find something wrong with it (if you look past the fact that its 5 years old). Its unbelievably fun, captivating, has beautiful graphics, revolutionary gameplay and control and practically no mistakes.
Is it perfect? NO, but almost perfect, and revolutionary.

To make my point more clear, take this example. IGN gave Metroid Prime 9.8/10 which is an excellent score. However, Metroid Prime still had minor flaws or things that could have been better, thus, barely missed the perfect grade.
If in school you get a perfect grade it doesnt mean that your work was perfect, but achieved requirements.

So a perfect game really would have to be the most fun ever(like more than sex), and everlasting (by that I mean neverending).

[Gup]

Quote
Originally posted by: Hemmorrhoid
If in school you get a perfect grade it doesnt mean that your work was perfect, but achieved requirements.

I don't know about that.  I say perfect IS perfect.

[Grey Ninja]

I got 100% on a lot of English, and a lot of Social Studies essays.  Does that mean that I never made one single mistake in them?  I couldn't have done better by adding an extra sentence or two in detailing something that I wrote?  Does that mean that I never included one sentence that could have been dropped?

I think that my work was simply a cut above the rest, and deserving of a perfect grade.

[KrazyJ1098]

"Would anyone have an example of a "perfect game"? "

Metroid Prime. hands down the best game out there. halo comes very close though.

[mouse_clicker]

But what if you get a 100% on a test? That 100% means you got a perfect score, that you didn't miss a single question. A 100% in a class is different because you have to factor in things like extra credit, rounding up, grading curves, and the way some teacher's grade.  

[ruby_onix]

I think the thing about it is that there's nothing wrong with giving out a "10" to something. It doesn't mean the game is "perfect".

Think about how many degrees there are to rank it with (if you don't get into the decimals). A rank of 5/10 is supposed to be "adequate" (or whatever word you prefer). A 0/10 is supposed to be completely worthless (although I don't know if anyone has ever bothered to make one of these yet).

So there are only about 5 levels of quality. Ranking something as one of the top 10% of all games ever made isn't uncommon. You could even rank a game into the top 20% of good games you could could think are "possible" without too much trouble.

The next thing people usually do to make it more accurate is split up the rankings for the graphics and sound and "fun" and all that, and average them out.

So if your game is top 10% in fun, and top 10% in graphics, and top 10% in sound, then it doesn't have to be "perfect", just really good all the way through.


But the thing is, once you score that 10, people look at it as a "perfect 10", because the number itself is perfect.

People need to look more at the games and less at the numbers. A perfect 10 doesn't mean it's the most fun you'll have in a game, just that it's a "top-notch" game, and more than that, the guys who made it spared no expense in trying to get every aspect of it just right.

[mouse_clicker]

I think the thing about it is that there's nothing wrong with giving out a "10" to something. It doesn't mean the game is "perfect".

That all depends, though. Giving a game a 10/10 because you believe it IS perfect is stupid because perfection is impossible to attain. Giving a game a 10/10 because you believe it's the pinnacle of entertainment, then that's good. A 10/10 in game reviews can mean perfect or top in it's class depending on who reviews it. Like I said, Gamespot's 10/10 literally means the reviewer thinks the game is perfect and cannot be improved in any way. IGN's 10/10, thought, means that the review believes the game in question represents the furthest advancement in that field.

[Bill Aurion]

Reviews are basically opinions.  If someone gives a game a "10," then they believe that game ranks high on their own scale of greatness.  Just because someone gives a game a 10 doesn't mean the game is perfect by any means.  The game could be completely horrible in another person's eyes.  For example, you see many people spouting that Halo is the best thing since sliced bread.  I, on the other hand, think that it's an incredibly generic FPS.  So never get a game just because it gets a good review.  Rent it and give it your own inspection.

[mouse_clicker]

Major game review sites have a system, though, and each score means something. At places like Gamespot, reviews ONLY give out a 10 if they think the game is perfect and can't possibly be improved. If Gamespot's reviewers want to convey that the game is the pinnacle of development, they'd give it a 9.9, but the 10/10 at places like Gamespot is reserved ONLY for games the reviewer felt are perfect. Places like IGN don't even have a score to reflect perfection because they don't believe perfection exists. You have to understand that some people truly do believe some games are perfect.

[Ryujin]

I don't think the time limit in MM was innovative, more like annoying...  In fact, I never finished MM  ( I think I got about 3/4th's through), because the 3 day thing was so annoying...  It also felt alot more linear to me...  I beat OoT several times, but couldn't even finish MM because it wasn't fun, it was frustrating...

[ruby_onix]

Quote
A 10/10 in game reviews can mean perfect or top in it's class depending on who reviews it.

I like it better with a "10" meaning it's in the top 20% of anything that can be considered "good".

Then you do that to the different aspects of the game (sound, controls, etc.) and average them out (which is why you get something like 9.8/10, instead of 98/100).

Which would mean that we're seeing more "perfect 10" games these days because everyone's taking the time and effort to make "major productions" out of their games. Games like Castlevania and Megaman used to be the only ones putting out great gameplay, graphics, and great sound, but now everyone knows your won't get away without putting top-notch sound into their games.

No areas are lacking.

Or at least that's how I think of it. I don't really spend much thought trying to figure out what systems reviewers use to rank their games.

[mouse_clicker]

Quote
I don't think the time limit in MM was innovative, more like annoying... In fact, I never finished MM ( I think I got about 3/4th's through), because the 3 day thing was so annoying... It also felt alot more linear to me... I beat OoT several times, but couldn't even finish MM because it wasn't fun, it was frustrating...

SPOILERS!

I thought the 3 day cycle was very innovative and made a great story, btu I do agree that it made the game very difficult and more often frustrating than enjoyable. I personally used the Backwards Song of Time (basically the Song of Time backwards)- it made time go three times slower so it was like having 9 days to finish a dungeon rather than 3.

[joeamis]

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
But what if you get a 100% on a test? That 100% means you got a perfect score, that you didn't miss a single question. A 100% in a class is different because you have to factor in things like extra credit, rounding up, grading curves, and the way some teacher's grade.

yes but when people review games they don't review them like a test is reviewed.
(they don't look at the graphics and say: "is this using all the graphical features of the hardware? is it using bump mapping? it's not! take off 5 points. is it using trilinear mip mapping? yes? ok, give it the 5 points for this area of our test.", etc etc)

they review them like a paper is reviewed...
("they do look at the graphics and say: well they did do a good job here with the graphics, i like the lighting used.  Sure they could've had more animation for this character, but it is still well done.  let's give it a 8 out of 10 for this area."

furthering my point, you stated:
A 100% in a class is different because you have to factor in things like extra credit, rounding up, grading curves, and the way some teacher's grade.

when it comes to videogames,
extra credit= extra game modes, features.  
rounding up= this area of the game isn't great, but this other aspect more than makes up for it so let's give it a higher score.
grading curves= compared to the sound in the games so far, this one does car engine sounds best so let's raise it's score for sound.
way some teachers grade= different review sites/mags

as far as gamespot's reviews of 10= a perfect game.  well, yes it is true that a very small # of review sites/mags do believe 10= perfect.  However, it is still THEIR OPINION which brings me to what I stated earlier in this thread:

no game can be perfect to the masses, only individuals. (think about it)
 

[fishbonefred]

the perfect game, i dont think there is or ever will be a perfect game, as the years pass on games keep improving, there will never be a game that is so advanced it makes game developers stop making games because they can't compete. i remember getting super mario all stars for SNES and thinking that i have found the perfect game, then finding zeldaOOT for 64 and again being amazed. develeopers need not invent the perfect game, just keep trying to.

[joeamis]

agreed.  i believe some games can be perfect for individuals, it just hits them the right way like a great episode of the simpsons.

for instance the following games were perfect in my eyes but probably were not perfect to others:
(only games that i have beat our allowed on this list, you will notice no current generation games are on this list because I have not beaten them... i know i should've beaten my new games but i haven't had enough time to play them all to completion)

game/platform
chrono trigger snes
super mario brothers 1-3 (at the time of release...i highly stress at the time) nes
final fantasy tactics psone
final fantasy 7 psone
stunt race fx snes
super metroid snes
tecmo super bowl (nes version) nes
goldeneye n64
double dragon arcade arcade
starfox snes
super mario kart snes
Metal Gear (nes version) nes
Metal Gear Solid 1 psone
Excitebike 64 n64
Contra 3 snes
zelda 1 and 2 nes

im sure i forgot atleast 5 games... maybe 10, oh well

[Nephilim]

PGC compares cube games against ps2 and xbox games, thats proberly why we get so low scores on here
maybe you should read the dojo review fully before complaining.
I havnt seen a 10/10 nintendo game in a magazine since perfect dark,so I dunno what ur talking about

[Grey Ninja]

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
But what if you get a 100% on a test? That 100% means you got a perfect score, that you didn't miss a single question. A 100% in a class is different because you have to factor in things like extra credit, rounding up, grading curves, and the way some teacher's grade.

In a math test, that would be very true.  However, I remember having to write a lot of short stories/essays in my English classes.  Really, that's what games are.  They aren't math papers, they are works of art along the lines of a novel.

If you get 100% on an English paper, does that mean that you did everything "perfectly"?

[joeamis]

i don't keep up on perfect 10s in magazines much, since i only subscribe to one mag
i remember metroid fusion getting a perfect 10 in game informer not long ago
as well as windwaker and gta vice city with 10's too

[mouse_clicker]

"If you get 100% on an English paper, does that mean that you did everything "perfectly"? "

It depends on the teacher. Some teachers will only give you the coveted 100% if they believe you DID do everything perfectly while other teachers will give you a 100% if they feel you were in the top of the class. It all depends on where the perfect score is coming from as to whether it not it actually means "perfect".

[Grey Ninja]

I am too tired for a sustained argument, but I will leave you with this computer science quote that very much applies to this situation.  Please think about it deeply.

"The best optimization is to do nothing.  Therefore a fully optimized program does not exist."