Topic: NES Classic and Nintendo's futility trying to meet demand.

[ejamer]

Bubble Bobble is the best NES game, what are you talking about?

Not the best, but a damn bit better than any lists I've seen posted recently have made it out to be.


But hey, any game that doesn't have immediate nostalgia or give away some of it's best secrets in the first 5 minutes is destined to fail these days. Also, it's not nearly as good solo as it is with a friend... and the experience of couch co-op is rarely enjoyed any longer.
 


Seriously though, Bubble Bobble is a very good game.

[KeyBilly]

I would much prefer to play these games on something like a Retro Pie, but I am one of those bad people that just wants one because it looks like a little NES.  In terms of practical use, it would make sense for anyone too young to have grown up with the system.  Some games do hold up really well and are worth playing, while others might be considered filler to play for a few minutes out of curiosity.

Those Atari all-in-one joysticks were very popular a few years ago, and the games were much more basic.  If the NES version is similar, it will end up flooding every superstore and house goods store before people lose interest.

[BranDonk Kong]

Sad to see some of the games people did not own. From the NES Classic Edition library, I owned:
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
Double Dragon II: The Revenge
Dr. Mario
Excitebike
Ghosts 'n Goblins
The Legend of Zelda
Mario Bros.
Metroid
(Mike Tyson's) Punch-Out!!
Ninja Gaiden
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Tecmo Bowl
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

[nickmitch]

I highly doubt people are nostalgic for even half of the games in the NES Classic's library. I see how hard you're trying to push nostalgia as a selling factor, but I just find it extremely hard to believe. Maybe I'm still young and foolish.

You really only have to be nostalgic for half the games (which is still 15 games, mind you) to want to drop $60 on something that looks and feels like your childhood.  ****, you could probably get by on that.

[Evan_B]

I have once again been overruled.

Curse you, Bubble Bobble!

[ejamer]

Maybe the unit shortage isn't entirely Nintendo's fault.


http://www.kijiji.ca/v-video-games-consoles-other/hamilton/60-nes-classic-systems-available/1216476779?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


When the link inevitably goes down, some joker bought 60 units and is now trying to unload them second-hand (unopened and unused, of course - he's not buying to play) for a mere $250 a pop. Seriously: what's wrong with people?  Aimed at both the reseller, and anyone paying $250 for a system from someone who obviously is trying to horde all local stock.

[Evan_B]

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-video-games-consoles-other/hamilton/60-nes-classic-systems-available/1216476779?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true


When the link inevitably goes down, some joker bought 60 units and is now trying to unload them second-hand (unopened and unused, of course - he's not buying to play) for a mere $250 a pop. Seriously: what's wrong with people?  Aimed at both the reseller, and anyone paying $250 for a system from someone who obviously is trying to horde all local stock.

The sad thing is, with the immediacy of demand that the recreational markets possess, people will most certainly be buying these.

[Khushrenada]

Can I be quite honest?

Even with the "pros" of the emulation quality, I also don't understand why anyone would want these things. I could see maybe wanting a SNES Mini, but even then, it would likely be clogged with Nintendo releases that I've- again- already played. The only reason I could see someone wanting this is out of nostalgia and an overwhelming collectors' complex. I don't think Nintendo is in the wrong for having poor distribution, and I'm genuinely shocked at the frenzy to buy.

I'm with you on this one but that's because I'm not a big fan of the NES or its library myself. I don't have a lot of nostalgia or memories of the unit aside from playing Super Mario Bros. and Duck Hunt when I could at someone's house. I bought an NES at a flea Market 12 years ago mainly because I had pretty much all other Nintendo systems at that point in my life (aside from the Virtual Boy) and it seemed like it might be a fun and neat collectable/curio. The only games I've got for it are a SMB/Duck Hunt combo with zapper, Krusty's Fun House, Rad Racer and Super Mario Bros. 3. I soon realized the limits of the technology on games made for it kept them from being that enjoyable for someone playing them in 2004 and the SMB games had been remade better in Mario All-Stars so I never wanted to buy other games for it and now the system can hardly read games anyways so it's mainly a paperweight.

However, I remember years ago, there were kiosks at malls that would be selling some kind of emulators which had a bunch of NES or Genesis games all in one box with a controller. That was a bigger thing until the Wii came along and had a Virtual Console to allow people to acquire those games again that way and in a more legal manner. Still, there has always been a sort of demand for this type of product.

That said, I also think the demand is increased right now because people are hearing supply seems to be low. I was only interested in this once I started hearing the news last week of how retailers were trying to handle this release since stock would be low. Suddenly, it became a rare item and possible could increase in value over time as a collectors item. However, while the idea of getting one and flipping it for double the price to get my money back and then buy a new Wii U game I'd like for free has a certain appeal, I can't be bothered to go through that hassle. I'm also not interested in denying others who want one from getting it just so that I can charge it at a higher price. I am not a good scalper. I know how frustrating it is like when I wanted to get a special edition copy of FE:Fates but was unable to do so yet there are some who got copies so that they could sell them for $300.00 bucks on the secondhand market. For me, the NES Classic is like Amiibo. I had and have no major interest in most of Amiibo but, once word got out that certain characters were becoming rare and hard to find, then I started becoming curious to see if I might spot one. It's a psychological thing. The fear of missing out on something even if you weren't interested in the thing when you thought it was readily available. Put me in the conspiracy camp that thinks Nintendo is purposely short-shipping to create more hype and demand for a product.

[rygar]

Sad to see some of the games people did not own. From the NES Classic Edition library, I owned:
Castlevania II: Simon's Quest
Double Dragon II: The Revenge
Dr. Mario
Excitebike
Ghosts 'n Goblins
The Legend of Zelda
Mario Bros.
Metroid
(Mike Tyson's) Punch-Out!!
Ninja Gaiden
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Tecmo Bowl
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link

It's funny, I only owned SMB and Tecmo Bowl that I can remember, but I held friend's copies of another 15 or so long enough that it feels like I owned them too.

I've bought most of these over the last year on the 3DS VC (at a greater collective cost) so I was sitting this one out regardless.

[Kairon]

Working Dr. Mario anywhere set top box. That alone is why I know I'm buying this .  Maybe not now when it's crazy, but I AM getting one of these.

[ThePerm]

I have all of Nintendo's systems but an snes. We had a genesis and our parents wouldn't let us have both. If a snes classic comes out I'm for sure getting that. I want an NES classic, but you know I have to be able to buy one.

It would be kinda interesting to have classic mini versions of all consoles. I have a little Genesis(but it sucks balls)
It has wireless controllers, bu they are infrared, I'd rather have a short cord.

[Mop it up]

I'm only missing 6 of the 30 in any form, and I don't particularly care about those 6 games. If I do care then just grabbing a few on VC would be cheaper. So I probably won't be getting one unless it becomes overstocked and put on clearance sales like some people predict.

I'm also not really a fan of NES despite growing up with it. I would be more interested in an SNES Mini as I like that system a lot more. However, even though I own about half as many SNES games as NES, I still probably own most of what they would put into an SNES Mini. Still, those old cartridges won't last forever, and some of them already have fickle save batteries.

[Ian Sane]

If I didn't have a real NES I probably would pick this up.  If as a kid you had these 30 games that would have been a hell of a collection and there isn't really a bad game in the bunch.  Ice Climber is probably the worst title.

There are some limitations with NES games that I find a little frustrating and "Nintendo hard" isn't a term for no reason.  I find the stuff I have the most fun with are SHMUPS because they're supposed to be hard.  When I'm playing Contra or Guardian Legend I expect that sort of game to kick my ass.  SHUMPS on the PS2 aren't really any different so something like Jackal or 1943 doesn't feel dated, it just has older graphics.  Something like Zelda or Dragon Warrior?  No, you couldn't get away with a game that plays like those.  Later titles in those genres have polished the mechanics so much that those old games feel primitive.

[oohhboy]

Judging how much launch stock to have is hard. On the opposite of the spectrum is the Xbox One. How many months, years did those things sit on the shop floor, people making thrones out of them. MS constantly trying to repackage the originals over and over again with game codes and cardboard selves. I think there are still Day One Editions in retail.

Nintendo does have a habit of having a short supply, but I don't think it was ever about marketing purposes as a primary or secondary reason, it is just simply having a short supply is a better problem to have than having too much. Having a short supply means every unit you make is sold and less time something is in retail, less cost it is to Nintendo from storage, management, advertising, kickbacks and excess factory capacity. If you want to make a change or push a new product, it is far easier to do if the channel flushes itself, even if you have to put the older item on discount or re-box it it will apply over a fewer number of units.

While I grew up with the NES, SNES and N64, I am in no rush to go back especially since I still have the hardware on hand. I still have a CRT in storage should I ever want the full experience. But I am likely not the people they are aiming for.

It is for all those people that over the years have sold, lost, damage or otherwise never had access or played these games in it's original state.

Nintendo is in a somewhat unique situation to do this as they do have enough games to package in such a machine even without third parties. This gives them the leverage to bring in the third party games on reasonable terms.

Imagine trying to do this with PS1 games where you would have to fight to get every single game you tried to get on the system. Don't forget the number of games that are now attached to defunct owners or have different version and re-releases, publishers, lapsed tech licenses etc. They could do it, but I can't imagine how much of a mess it would be.

[ThePerm]

If I didn't have a real NES I probably would pick this up.  If as a kid you had these 30 games that would have been a hell of a collection and there isn't really a bad game in the bunch.  Ice Climber is probably the worst title.

There are some limitations with NES games that I find a little frustrating and "Nintendo hard" isn't a term for no reason.  I find the stuff I have the most fun with are SHMUPS because they're supposed to be hard.  When I'm playing Contra or Guardian Legend I expect that sort of game to kick my ass.  SHUMPS on the PS2 aren't really any different so something like Jackal or 1943 doesn't feel dated, it just has older graphics.  Something like Zelda or Dragon Warrior?  No, you couldn't get away with a game that plays like those.  Later titles in those genres have polished the mechanics so much that those old games feel primitive.

Mop_it_up is a hell of a collector



A Titan among us.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=28357.0

[nickmitch]

Judging how much launch stock to have is hard. On the opposite of the spectrum is the Xbox One. How many months, years did those things sit on the shop floor, people making thrones out of them. MS constantly trying to repackage the originals over and over again with game codes and cardboard selves. I think there are still Day One Editions in retail.

Nintendo does have a habit of having a short supply, but I don't think it was ever about marketing purposes as a primary or secondary reason, it is just simply having a short supply is a better problem to have than having too much. Having a short supply means every unit you make is sold and less time something is in retail, less cost it is to Nintendo from storage, management, advertising, kickbacks and excess factory capacity. If you want to make a change or push a new product, it is far easier to do if the channel flushes itself, even if you have to put the older item on discount or re-box it it will apply over a fewer number of units.

A safe, conservative approach works for the reasons you described, but at what point can one fault Nintendo for not knowing when they have a hit?  It seems like they did some insufficient market research. 

[oohhboy]

You don't notice all the times they do get it right. The GC, N64, GBA, DS, 3DSXL, N3DS and 3DS were all pretty orderly affairs. I can't remember any game launches that didn't have a good supply. Pokemon GO did surprise them somewhat with higher than expected server demands.

These days hype machines go rampant all the time and are doing so at an increasing rate producing unexpected results. The biggest examples this year is the Brexit and the Presidential elections. If such large and well funded companies with decades of experience can get it so wrong you bet smaller marketing departments everywhere are having trouble and there is a lot of soul searching going on.

The internet has made marketing harder to control as the marketer no longer has control over the message like they did pre-facebook etc. You have fake news, over enthused fans, closed off communities feeding off each other, levels of cognitive dissonance that is just incredible to the point reality has no say on the subject.

This still shows up once in a while with people thinking it is still going to happen:



It wasn't made by MS, it was done by fans who have no idea what reality is. You try controlling that.

[Spak-Spang]

Dang I wish the above was true.  That would make gaming so simple for single player experiences.  But obviously, that isn't real.

[Soren]

Black Friday/Cyber Monday went by with not much of NES Classic restock news to show. I saw this Jim Sterling video yesterday that I agree with in terms that Nintendo treats its hardware availability like toymakers treat the availability of toys, which sets them apart from Sony/Microsoft.

WARNING: There's a ton of swearing.

[lolmonade]

Black Friday/Cyber Monday went by with not much of NES Classic restock news to show. I saw this Jim Sterling video yesterday that I agree with in terms that Nintendo treats its hardware availability like toymakers treat the availability of toys, which sets them apart from Sony/Microsoft.

WARNING: There's a ton of swearing.

"That was a great episode"


Can't disagree more, Jim.


I can't help but laugh and feel a bit of disgust about an adult getting that level of disgust about Nintendo's forecasting and supply strategy.  His title for the video may as well have been "Nintendo's Distribution is Garbage Because I Don't Like the Way They Supply Their Products".



I get he's speaking from the frustrated consumer standpoint, but I really don't care for these kinds of crybaby youtuber rants.

[nickmitch]

You don't notice all the times they do get it right. The GC, N64, GBA, DS, 3DSXL, N3DS and 3DS were all pretty orderly affairs. I can't remember any game launches that didn't have a good supply. Pokemon GO did surprise them somewhat with higher than expected server demands.

These days hype machines go rampant all the time and are doing so at an increasing rate producing unexpected results. The biggest examples this year is the Brexit and the Presidential elections. If such large and well funded companies with decades of experience can get it so wrong you bet smaller marketing departments everywhere are having trouble and there is a lot of soul searching going on.

The internet has made marketing harder to control as the marketer no longer has control over the message like they did pre-facebook etc. You have fake news, over enthused fans, closed off communities feeding off each other, levels of cognitive dissonance that is just incredible to the point reality has no say on the subject.

This still shows up once in a while with people thinking it is still going to happen:

It wasn't made by MS, it was done by fans who have no idea what reality is. You try controlling that.

They almost got lucky with 3DS non-shortages because it under-performed initially. I also wouldn't really consider GC and back because they've been trending in the wrong direction since then.  But you bring up some really good points.  It's gotta be near impossible to filter out the noise from the reliable indicators.

[ejamer]

I don't believe that it's impossible. They could have taken pre-orders to gauge interest levels and secure sales. They could have looked at what other Nintendo items were being made available over the holidays and realized there was a huge gap.


The internet does create noise that can be hard to parse, for sure... but that's hardly an excuse for the horrible short stocking that Nintendo has become known for.

[oohhboy]

I never said it was impossible, just really really hard. Then you have to define what would be considered a shortage and what is excessive. Is is -1? -100? +100? How is the inventory distributed? How would you quantify the relationship between products? How does more pikachu plushes sold and no ekans mean for mainline pokemon games?

I don't think pre-orders is accurate(At physical stores) as from the mouth of multiple game employees I have spoken to is that they juice the numbers of all games regardless of quality, the company for obvious reasons don't like excess inventory. Pre-order numbers can be pretty BS depending on the game and where you are and who is running that shop. The employees do it for a number of reasons like reaching KPI's is the big one, making sure there is stock beyond pre-orders+1, console wars.

If you can't trust those numbers what can you trust? You just have to settle for the fact Nintendo is a cautious company in an ever unpredictable industry.

Remember, there are lots and lots of items that don't make the news. It is always those outliers that everyone remembers. If every company followed the hype train you we would have a lot more E.Ts.

Who would have thought packaging a 100 old games like those Chinese knock off "Consoles" would sell that well?

[Kairon]

I agree that it's definitely not easy. I'd just like to think that a multi-billion dollar company could afford to do BETTER.

[oohhboy]

I don't think it is a matter of money. It is as they say, garbage in, garbage out.