Topic: This is why school shootings happen

[Grey Ninja]

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The age thing always comes into play- just because I'm 15 I'm naive and have no idea what I'm talking about. Do you want to see my post I made on diseases when I was 12? Maturity comes not with age, my friend. I'll respect your decision not to debate any more, but PLEASE don't accredit it to my age.

Nobody's saying that you aren't mature.  I am saying that you are too young to know the ways of the world.  Things were clear to me when I was little older than you, but only because of some events that I have not mentioned here, and likely never will.

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Let me change the scenario, since you missed the point- say a friend of yours was in a collapsing building and had his legs destroyed in some rubble. He was desperate and crying for help. By Ninja's mentality, the man is weak since he can't help himself and should be left. By MY mentality, the man should be helped because he NEEDS help- it's against the human condition to leave one of your own to perish. And read what manunited said- since when do we have to follow animalistic instincts? I don't think you'd support survival of the fittest if you weren't the fittest.

That's an entirely different scenario.  Don't lecture me on principles.

To you, helping other people means dropping a coin in some charity box or signing some blasted petition.

I gave a dying man his last breath.  That's my idea of helping others when in need.

My point was that the Star Wars kid should just suck it up and take it like a man.  He doesn't need my help or my pity any more than the people who go into a school and start shooting my classmates and friends.

The same goes for the soldier on the battlefield.  If I saw someone sitting in a corner crying while his countrymen were being overrun, I would be more inclined to shoot the man myself than help him out in any way.

[Ms.Pikmin]

*tries to tape Mario's head back together*

Mouseclicker, I did get your point in the soldier/mental illness/physical disibility question.  I was just trying to point out that someone who is lying on the ground after/during a battle with severe injuries is not the same as someone who has  a mental illness.  Anyway, of course people who have mental illness should be treated.  I am just not sure that the kids who "crack" and shoot their peers are really mentally ill.  As I said in my last post, I really would like to know what has changed, especially in America, that so many kids are doing this kind of thing.

[The Omen]

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Don't even try that with me- if you HAD been in some these kids's shoes, you'd either have killed yourself and be dead right now or be in a federal prison for having killed other people. I KNOW that because I can guarantee that nobody here could stand what they have without snapping. And don't try to convince me otherwise- it's not worth it.

That sounds like a 15 yr olds view.

Believe it or not, Mouse_Clicker, i wasn't aiming at you when talking about the younger generation, but now that you've made a ridiculous comment, i am.  I am not going to share my expereinces with a bunch of strangers who i couldn't care less about.  I will just say, i've been through a lot, and it has made me tougher, more cynical and less trusting of people.  That works for me.  You know what?  I never thought about taking anothers life because i decided to use the negative energy to my advantage.  I wanted to get my revenge by being who i wanted, and if people wanted to make fun, so be it.  And you know what?  Once you get out of school , people who are the 'misfits' are much more widely accepted, and it just is easier to be yourself.  The worlds is ugly, no doubt, but by that point you should be hardened. Unlike these kids who are crying 'whoa is me' all the time.  Suck it up!

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And don't try to convince me otherwise- it's not worth it.

You're right, it's not.  

[manunited4eva22]

I am going to have to agree a little with our generation is different from others. I will try to convey a short point. When my dad was  a kid, they fought for honor. Literally they fought everyday after school barenuckle, no weapons, and the teachers didn't care. This was their way of solving problems. There was no zero tollerance, if someone took it too far, they got paddelled, that was how things went.

Today this generation is under far different conditions. We are trapped between the remnants of the hippy movement, and of their children who wish to keep people from feeling the harm of what happened to their generation. We have on one side, a dying group that while trying to teach a great lesson of equality, lost the very thing they wanted for everyone, equality. When you see a hippy on the street, do you salute them? Do you even give them a nice look? Or do you snicker, look away, or avoid them? What makes them different, different from the men who fought in the army? Did all hippies think and talk badly of soldiers, far from it. Were all the soldiers who fought in wars valient fighters? What is the difference? The hippies fought for civil rights, equality, and a long list of other things, and the soldiers fought for freedom of other countries. It is true that many soldiers engaged in the same activities hippies did, substense abuse, free and unprotected sex, but the views people have of them are entirely different.

I think what is happening today is similar. Today, if you choose to be different, you aren't going to get the respect the people who do will. People are so extremely harsh towards hippies, yet today there are very few people who do not have atleast a mild sense of respect for veterans. How many hippies are proud to admit what they fought for? How many veterans will tell you of how deeply they love this country because they fought for what they believe in?

These two groups are so very similar, but one of them was treated so very harshly in the end. This group has all but died. They are shunned, and many do lead a very lonely exhistence. If not lonely, they have changed their ideals for various reasons, but often enough it was because they didn't want to be different anymore.

Now lets look at our generation. Fighting is rarely a concevable option, people lack the confidence in themselves that past generations may have had. People say that as we increase in size we are bound to be more diverse and such, but diversity has nothing to do with it. Diversity was never the problem, as I have seen people who will willingly accept anyone no matter who they are, or know nothing about their culture. The real issue is that we need their to be diversity. People depend on so often of finding differences in each other, because it makes you feel good to be different, or bad if you expect it. People are so quick to criticize someone when they act differently because they don't like how people act. They want everything to be just unpredictable enough so they don't have to realize that if they mess up they need to start over, but at the same time need help from others.

I have sidetracked a lot, so I will rap this up shortly.

About not caring about the kids who do the shootings.

I will quote marilyn manson when he was asked what he would say to the columbine shooters, "Nothing, I would listen to them because obviously no one else did."

If you read this far I am impressed.

[mouse_clicker]

"My point was that the Star Wars kid should just suck it up and take it like a man. He doesn't need my help or my pity any more than the people who go into a school and start shooting my classmates and friends."

And now we've come full circle. I'm asking you to place yourself in the shoes of kids like that- how do you think you would've handled it? Could you have come out of it unscathed, or a better question would be sane? Human beings have emotions for a reason, to help out their fellow man- you could call it our evolutionial trump. To be cold and unresponsive isn't human nature. MY point is that it's fine for you to pass judgement over someone you don't even know, much less have any idea what he's going through, but if you were ever in that position yourself you wouldn't fare any better. Your view is one selfishness, one where you can't feel compassion for your fellow man unless he's about to die. I'm just asking you to understand that just sucking it up and taking it like a man is much easier said than, especially when you're not altogether there in the first place. Your view is spawned by your inability to imagine what they're going through. I guess there's no changing your or Omen's opinion, though, except through personal experience. Like I said, when you need help, as you invariably will, I hope the person that happens to be there in your time of need doesn't sahre your defeatist and selfish views. When you're able to care for others less fortunate than you, that's when you've made the jump to humanity. You and Omen are still lingering somewhere behind.

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I will quote marilyn manson when he was asked what he would say to the columbine shooters, "Nothing, I would listen to them because obviously no one else did."

EXACTLY. Besides the fact no one probably took him seriously because he IS so different, that embodies what I'm trying to say perfectly (I wish I was that concise). Grey Ninja and Omen's solution is to ignore them when that's only going to cultivate the problem and make it worse. What people like them need is for someone to help them through what was hapenning- it's not all about who's the strongest or who can take the most punishment. If a teacher had talked with them or they had gone to a therapist there would have BEEN no shooting at Columbine. Would Grey Ninja and Omen's solution of further ridicule have produced a result like that?  

[Grey Ninja]

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And now we've come full circle. I'm asking you to place yourself in the shoes of kids like that- how do you think you would've handled it? Could you have come out of it unscathed, or a better question would be sane?

You don't know me.  And from your statement, it's perfectly obvious you haven't listened to a damn thing I said.

I am just going to say it now.  You don't understand what that kid is going through, while myself and Omen somewhat do.  You are 14 years old, have two loving parents, you obviously haven't ever experienced true hardship, and don't have a freaking clue what you are talking about.  You just think that you are doing the right thing by standing up for what you see as the world coming down on a poor innocent kid.  In your self-righteousness, you have forgotten some of the things you have said in this thread.

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You're no better than the jocks and preps who get shot up at school shootings!

People, THIS is why school shootings happen

To me, this says that you are justifying school shootings.  You have never experienced one, and you have only your own interpretation to go on.

Let me tell you some things.  One of my good friends, who I still talk to on MSN to this day was the brother of the person who came into my high school and shot his fellow students.  He was a good person, but how the hell do you think he feels about his brother?  The person he killed was someone who was gentle and wouldn't hurt a fly.  Did he do something to the shooter to make the shooting happen?

Quit trying to f*cking glorify student shootings, and change the f*cking title of this thread.  Now.

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And I seriously doubt even you could handle 500 kids making fun of you all day every day- I know I couldn't.

Evidence that you have no freaking clue what you are talking about.  I have been in that situation, as I am sure that many of the people here have been.  You obviously have not.  Those of us who HAVE been in that situation are telling Mr. Star Wars kid to sit down and STFU.  What does that tell you?

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When someone's having a nervous breakdown (which is obviously necessary for someone to kill their classmates or be put in a mental ward) they need help and support, not people telling them to get up and face it like a man. You're only adding to their burden.

Telling someone to stop sitting in the corner crying like a baby and to go out and fight like a man is a burden?  Give me a break.  Talk to me about this again in 10 years is all I have to say.

Anyways, like I said, I DO NOT want to argue this further.  Just take the frickin silver spoon out of your mouth and open up your eyes sometime.  You might see that this happy singing utopia you see is only skin deep.  If you want to make something out of yourself in this world, you have to have one person you can always trust.  That is yourself.  Star Wars Kid has abused that trust.

[Ms.Pikmin]

manunited, I am not disagreeing with you on your view of hippies and veterans.  I do have a different point of view though, which is probably because I live in northern California.  There are still quite a few original hippy types living here.  There are also alot of people who I would not say are hippies but who definitely have been influenced by them.  I don't think they are shunned or looked down at.  Well, I guess it would be more fair to say that they are accepted here more than they might be in other areas of the country.  Of course some people look down at them, but it's not everybody.

Since you brought up hippies and veterans it makes me think of all the veterans who came home during/after the Vietnam war.  These were not veterans who were looked at with respect.  It is widely known that they were treated very badly upon their return to the US.  I know you meant veterans in general, but hippies co-existed with Vietnam vets and both,you could say, got treated badly in the end.

[mouse_clicker]

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I am just going to say it now. You don't understand what that kid is going through, while myself and Omen somewhat do. You are 14 years old, have two loving parents, you obviously haven't ever experienced true hardship, and don't have a freaking clue what you are talking about. You just think that you are doing the right thing by standing up for what you see as the world coming down on a poor innocent kid. In your self-righteousness, you have forgotten some of the things you have said in this thread.

Actually, I'm 15- I've said so at least 10 times in this thread. Even if your life has been a living hell what gives you the right to pass judgement on people you don't even know. AT LEAST withhold your judgement until you meet the person. What I'M trying to say is that no one should be left behind- you've taken a much more brutal approach to it, one that I think is heartless because you're letting your fellow man spiral down into his own private hell. I'd think that going through hell yourself would give you more compassion for the people that are going through the same thing. Why do you resent people that need help? That's the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard.

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To me, this says that you are justifying school shootings. You have never experienced one, and you have only your own interpretation to go on.

And you're accusing ME of not reading what YOU'RE saying? How many times have I said shooting people to solve your problems is wrong? How many times have I said I do NOT condone violence as an answer to the problem? You come in here saying I'M the one who doesn't understand YOU when it's beyond obvious that you have absolutely no idea what I mean! I am NOT on the opposite spectrum of you- my opinions do NOT contradict yours at every turn. I thought you would have realized that. What I'm SAYING is that people who WILL shoot their fellow classmates need help. If that kid in yoru school had gone to see a therapist or his parents had talked to him, maybe, JUST maybe, some of your friends would still be alive. How on EARTH is your view going to change a single god damned thing?

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Quit trying to f*cking glorify student shootings, and change the f*cking title of this thread. Now.

Who the hell ever said I WAS? You read two sentences of my opinion and then assume you know what I mean. Just because I don't approve of kids being made fun of every day of their life by everyone who should be their friends does NOT mean I approve of them turning around blowing these kids away. What the hell ever gave you that idea? Have you read ANYTHING I've said?

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Those of us who HAVE been in that situation are telling Mr. Star Wars kid to sit down and STFU. What does that tell you?

That tells me that you're only adding to the problem. If you had said to get the kid who shot people at your school to sit down and STFU, would he had listened and sudennly been perfectly fine? Hell no! It would've only pushed him further!

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Telling someone to stop sitting in the corner crying like a baby and to go out and fight like a man is a burden? Give me a break. Talk to me about this again in 10 years is all I have to say.

What's it going to help? Tell me that- what's it going to help?

Anyways, like I said, I DO NOT want to argue this further. Just take the frickin silver spoon out of your mouth and open up your eyes sometime. You might see that this happy singing utopia you see is only skin deep. If you want to make something out of yourself in this world, you have to have one person you can always trust. That is yourself. Star Wars Kid has abused that trust.

Abnd who the hell are you to pass judgement on me? Besides that, why the hell are you even TRYING to attack my integrity? That's only an excuse because you've been force feeding me the same crap since the beginning of the thread and you can't come up with anything new. What if I HAD been through your same ordeal and still kept my opinion? What would THAT change? Tell me.  

Ninja, this would only come as a shock to you if you hadn't read what I've been saying- I AGREE with you. I agree that people who can't overcome their own problems aren't honorable and that those who do deserve all the respect they get. I AGREE with you in that respect. But that doesn't mean I think the people who CAN'T overcome their own problems should be left behind to rot like they were some forgotten pet. I'm NOT on the opposite pole as you here, and your difficulty in getting what I'm saying comes from your assumption that I AM. If you can get over the fact that there are people that share opinions with both sides, THEN you'll start to see what I mean.

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These were not veterans who were looked at with respect. It is widely known that they were treated very badly upon their return to the US.

Which I think is horrible, and for two main reasons. One, that most of the people who fought in Vietnam were drafted and a lot of them didn't even want to fight because they disagreed so much with what the war meant. Who could blame them when they didn't even have a choice of whether or not to fight? And two because a lot of the soldiers that returned had some deep psychological issues- very few people could be in such a situation and be unchanged when they returned. That was a time when they needed the most aid, to help them get through the ordeal they had just been through. But when people ignore them, their state only intensifies to the point where they go insane.    

[Ms.Pikmin]

mouseclicker, I may be speaking out of turn here, but I think you need to back off of Grey Ninja.  He said way early in this thread that he did not want to argue about this subject and his views because it was going to get too personal.  You seem to want to push him to explain.  He and Omen have said they are not going to put their private personal turmoil on this thread.  I know you are enjoying this debate but there is a point where the fun of pushing buttons and arguing need to come down a notch.    

[manunited4eva22]

I am fully aware of how they were treated when they returned, but that and if anything it would illustrate my point more. People are fickle a lot of times and won't accept their brethren because they think differently. But for the basis of what I wrote I tried to be careful to show in hindsite.

About hippies for me: the south really has shunned them. Even the guys in the NAACP that marched with them during the civil rights movement are known to talk badly of them.

And as for the militairy, god here it is a tradition. I barely know anyone who doesn't have atleast a family member that served.

Lets see, military bases I can think of in sc:

fort jackson basic training facility (largest bt base in us)
macentire air national guard
shaw air force based (deployed to EVERY conflict involving air power since vietnam(
paris island (I dont think any explanation needed)
the citadel: marine college

those are teh only ones on the top of my head, but the point is, the military is boss here, if you are a veteran wearing some identity showing it, you will be saluted atleast 4 times a day. I wouldn't expect anything like that in northern california, especially around berkeley.

[mouse_clicker]

Maybe I am pushing too hard, and I apologize if I've caused him any turmoil, but he HAS returned repeatedly to debate with me, which he did upon his own merits rather than because I forced him to. I'm guessing he wants to debate with me otherwise he would've left and not come back. Omen also persisted for a while. If they're so strong, though, and have overcome hardship, I don't see how some punk on the internet who's got it all is going to bring down their way of life.

[>X< Kitten >X<]

Stop it guys. We've gone from school shootings, to school systems, to people's personal lives in this thread, all because of the story of one boy who made an jackass of himself and wasn't able to deal with it. We can argue forever on this topic, but the reality remains that he was offended and broke down, whether we like or not (personaly, I'd embrace the fact that I'm famous), and we can't do anything to help. We're just wasting our words here, so let's just shut the f**K up and move on with our lives.  

[ThePerm]

what are you talking about society hating hippies....Willie Nelson is freaking cool. And i agree with mouseclicker..at the age of 40 your useless. I think we should have all the old people go to a celebration at about 30 or so...i think 40 is too late...and we'll call it carnival. Thery will systematically be removed in some sort of mass killing machine. Also we need like a system that we can easilly identify peoples age. We need to kill them off o nthe day htey turn 30. So we'll put like aa device in their hand that turns red as soon as they turn 30. That way if they try to run a special group of cops can get them and take them to carnival. So what people should do till their 30 is experiment in sexual pleasiure and also reproduce babies.

[Grey Ninja]

I have been drinking since I wrote that, and I haven't read recent posts.  I did read this paragraph though, and thought I would reply.

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Actually, I'm 15- I've said so at least 10 times in this thread.

Sorry.  I couldn't remember your age.  One year doesn't truly make that much of a difference though.

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Even if your life has been a living hell what gives you the right to pass judgement on people you don't even know.  AT LEAST withhold your judgement until you meet the person.

Same goes to you.

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What I'M trying to say is that no one should be left behind- you've taken a much more brutal approach to it, one that I think is heartless because you're letting your fellow man spiral down into his own private hell. I'd think that going through hell yourself would give you more compassion for the people that are going through the same thing. Why do you resent people that need help? That's the most hypocritical thing I've ever heard.

My personal philosophy on that is that you shouldn't help a man who's unwilling to help himself.  The Star Wars Kid simply gave up instead of fighting the good fight.  I will let the Star Wars Kid spiral down into hell all he likes.  His problems aren't that severe, in spite of what you might think, and he has simply given up.

This jumped out at me:

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Abnd who the hell are you to pass judgement on me? Besides that, why the hell are you even TRYING to attack my integrity? That's only an excuse because you've been force feeding me the same crap since the beginning of the thread and you can't come up with anything new. What if I HAD been through your same ordeal and still kept my opinion? What would THAT change? Tell me.

It would change your stance on this matter I am sure.  You have book smarts regarding this, but you don't have first hand knowledge.  It's difficult to judge something that you haven't seen yourself.

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Ninja, this would only come as a shock to you if you hadn't read what I've been saying- I AGREE with you. I agree that people who can't overcome their own problems aren't honorable and that those who do deserve all the respect they get. I AGREE with you in that respect. But that doesn't mean I think the people who CAN'T overcome their own problems should be left behind to rot like they were some forgotten pet. I'm NOT on the opposite pole as you here, and your difficulty in getting what I'm saying comes from your assumption that I AM. If you can get over the fact that there are people that share opinions with both sides, THEN you'll start to see what I mean.

Contrary to what you might think, I am having mixed thoughts on this myself, but I fight at the extreme edge because I am required to.  It's just the way I do things.  I think about all the help I received recently from friends and family, and I think about where I might be without it.  But I fight to let the Star Wars Kid rot not because he is unable to help himself, but because he is unwilling.

You talked earlier about there being no difference between physical disability and mental disability.  That's simply a falsehood.  The human mind is very resilient, and it's entirely possible for someone to fix things in their head on their own.  It's called courage.  Courage is something that must be created by a person, and is not something you are born with.  If the Star Wars Kid would just show some balls, he could easily get himself out of this mess without being none the poorer.  But he doesn't.  For that reason, he deserves to rot.

And you know something?  It's true what the Omen said.  After High School is over, everything changes.  The people who were picked on become the ones with power, and the ones who picked on them lose every bit of power they had after high school.  It's an interesting fate, but it's true.

You know half the reason why the picked on become powerful after high school?  Because they made it through on their own strengths.

[KnowsNothing]

Well this sure is a happy fun thread.  

I agree with everybody somewhat, but I agree with nobody completely.

We are a happy family, here.  HAPPY FAMILY.

"And you know something? It's true what the Omen said. After High School is over, everything changes. The people who were picked on become the ones with power, and the ones who picked on them lose every bit of power they had after high school. It's an interesting fate, but it's true."

That makes me happy, if you know what i mean.

Just kidding, I bever really get picked on, but a have a horrible self esteem and a persicution complex (well, my parents say I have a persicution complex, but they're just being mean to me.  


Wow, look at this.  A nice, short post that doesn't really make anybody angry.  I'm going back to reading the aussie thread, now.

[mouse_clicker]

Okay, we're making some progress. I am sorry though if I act like tis is a matter of life or death- I'm very prone to get agitated in debates like this.

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Sorry. I couldn't remember your age. One year doesn't truly make that much of a difference though

That wasn't what I meant- I've mentioned my age many times, both in this thread and out, and my birthdate is in my profile. To me that shows that you're not observant enough- you should pick up every detail that the person you're debating with gives. For instance, I knew Omen was 29 even though he didn't say in this thread.

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Same goes to you.

I never said I was unwilling. You've already played judge, jury, and executioner and decided how this person's life should go.

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My personal philosophy on that is that you shouldn't help a man who's unwilling to help himself. The Star Wars Kid simply gave up instead of fighting the good fight. I will let the Star Wars Kid spiral down into hell all he likes. His problems aren't that severe, in spite of what you might think, and he has simply given up.

I agree with you somewhat- I think, however, that giving up before you even try to help the person is just as defeatist. You should at least try to get the person to help himself. Say a friend of yours had a horrible heroine addicition and he really wanted to break the addicition but had given up, would you give up on him, too, or would you still try to get him into rehab? It's so easy to condemn someone you don't even know. Could you watch the kid spiral on into his own hell? Are you strong enough to sit through that and still come out of it thinking it was the right thing to do?

And like I've said many times before, the Star Wars kid is only an example- when I talk about things like that I'm mainly talking about the kids who do flip out and shoot someone (which I do NOT approve of, for the record).

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It would change your stance on this matter I am sure. You have book smarts regarding this, but you don't have first hand knowledge. It's difficult to judge something that you haven't seen yourself.

How can you be so sure? You said yourself it's difficult to judge something you haven't seen yourself, yet you don't even know what I look like. Can you really judge ME then? You came down on my for doing the same thing to you.

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Contrary to what you might think, I am having mixed thoughts on this myself, but I fight at the extreme edge because I am required to. It's just the way I do things. I think about all the help I received recently from friends and family, and I think about where I might be without it. But I fight to let the Star Wars Kid rot not because he is unable to help himself, but because he is unwilling.

Why do you do that? It makes no sense to fight for something you don't believe in. How can you know that what you're saying is right when you don't even believe in it fully yourself? Everything I've said I believe in 100%- I'm not going to take the polar opposite of someone just because I can.

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You talked earlier about there being no difference between physical disability and mental disability. That's simply a falsehood. The human mind is very resilient, and it's entirely possible for someone to fix things in their head on their own. It's called courage. Courage is something that must be created by a person, and is not something you are born with. If the Star Wars Kid would just show some balls, he could easily get himself out of this mess without being none the poorer. But he doesn't. For that reason, he deserves to rot.

Complete and utter BS-  see absolutely no different between someone who is mentally handicapped as opposed to someone who is phyiscally handicapped. The nature of their handicap does not change the fact that they are handicapped and telling either to suck it up won't do a single thing to help them. The human mind is NOT resilient- look at us! We're getting worked up over an internet debate! The human mind is weak- it can't full comprehend what's going on and because of that it's scared. Humans are so scared we make up things to calm ourselves down. Just because humans HAVE emotions doesn't mean they're strong, and that fact presents itself every second of every day. And if you honestly believe someone can fix their own mental affliction on their own, there's no point to even be debating. A cousin of mine is brain damaged- he's almost 13 but he acts like he's 5. He can't do anything about it, it's not his choice. Do you REALLY think someone who's in an advanced state of dementia can just snap out of it at a whim? That's like an alcoholic saying he can quite whenever he wants- it's NOT true.

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And you know something? It's true what the Omen said. After High School is over, everything changes. The people who were picked on become the ones with power, and the ones who picked on them lose every bit of power they had after high school. It's an interesting fate, but it's true.

Believe me, I know- I've been saying that for years.

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You know half the reason why the picked on become powerful after high school? Because they made it through on their own strengths.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it, though. The REAL reason the picked on become the powerful is the reason they were picked on. People who are smart, who have different ways of doing things, are seperated and railed on- look at what manunited's been saying. The people that ridicule them don't suceed because of the character flaw that enables them to ridicule without experiencing remorse. It's called a conscious, Ninja, and without a conscious you won't suceed in the world (well, most of the time). The people that are ridiculed are the smart ones, the nerds, the ones that are always looking ahead, preparing themselves for the future and that's WHY they're ridiculed. It has nothing to do with becoming stronger because you were picked on. People have been calling me a nerd or a geek since 1st grade and I'm not a stronger person because of it. If you're strong enough to shake off what other people think of you, that's something that you'll decide, not them.

[Grey Ninja]

I will admit that I read your post this time.  I still haven't read the ones in between, but I will get to that.  I was laughing the whole time though.  I just drank a whole bottle of sake though, and I am laughing about everything right now though.  I just watched The Void and Idiot Ninjas again though, so I am just loopy right now.  I am a quite happy drunk right now.  

Anyways, I just wanted to say that I really love you right now.  I can tell right now that I am going to object to the extreme to your post tomorrow, and I am going to regret writing this post, and that's why I am posting it.    I love pissing my sober self off.  He's so logical it drives me nuts.  I still agree with him on this issue, but I was laughing the whole time I read your post.  I don't recall what you said at the moment, but I am sure it was good.

What I always loved about you was that you argue with the same logic that my sober self does.  You might be misguided and wrong on this issue, but you always fight for your beliefs, and you do in fact posess a knowledge "beyond your years".  I say that because that's what my Bio teacher wrote on my reference letter when I asked him for one once.  You remind me of a younger version of myself in a lot of ways.  That's part of the reason why my sober part demands that you be told what's what in a fast hurry.  He doesn't like some of the traits you are developing.  He thinks it's unhealthy.

Yeah, I think I am a little bit schizophrenic, but don't tell anyone ok?  He doesn't normally read his own posts, and I am hoping this gets by him completely.  Just please don't egg him on too far ok?  He has already lost a good deal of respect for you, and he has had some rough times in his life.  It makes him quite defensive.

Oh sh!t... I have to work in 3 hours, and I am piss drunk.  this isn't going to be pretty.  I am going to put him to bed.  nighty night.

[ThePerm]

i didnt read any of that text...but from all the quotes it must be heated ....heated discussion. And no one but mouse clicker commented on my long ass post. Damn you people...i spent and hour typing that! Anyways...if this turns into some flame war then that means your all flamers.

and grey ninja...alcohol? Your alway lackign money and your like a starving programmer and you have mone yfor alcohol. You could have had Xenosaga had it not for the alcohol! You know it.

[mouse_clicker]

I'll remember all that when your sober self comes back to run my ass into the ground. And I don't really mean to be derisive and rude. I only do it because it's the internet and I can get away with it (although I suspect the first admin to look upon this will lock it immediatley). I've never been one to take any insults seriously whether they were intended to be or not and I hope you're the same way. Anyway, my back is killing me so I'm gonna go lie down.

[HiTmaN]

"Even if your life has been a living hell what gives you the right to pass judgement on people you don't even know."

Mouse clicker...I just dont feel like you know anything about the real world and what goes on.  

[The Omen]

Well, i will add one more slight rant before departing.  In terms of why i'm on these forums getting into mild debates, its very simple- my career allows me free time to coast around here and there.  I am a big time gamer who is a writer suffering through some sick writers block, and i come on here hoping to spur my mind into motion.  In this case, it has me enraged instead of all cute and cuddly.  Thanks for the friendly debating Mouse-Clicker.  I still say survival of the fittest, if only because thats how i've made it, so to speak.  I promise you when you get out of school and into the real world, you'll get tired of all these wankers crying about this and that and why they're sueing this one, and who's daddy didn't love them enough and so on and so forth.....and you will realize school meant nothing if not preparing you for the dasterdly world ahead.  If these children can't help themselves, ask yourself , why is that?  It comes down to heart and bravery.  Maybe they should be home schooled so they can plummet further into their cocoon....or maybe they should just , once again, suck it up.

[mouse_clicker]

Friendly isn't exactly the word I'd use to describe it, but I think we've come to the end of our debate- I don't think either side will give up ground, which makes for an utter stalemate.


And Hitman, who's actually YOUNGER than I am, it'd be nice if you elaborated on that point a bit.

[Grey Ninja]

Nice words omen.  I actually just went to the store and bought some more sake if you can believe it.  The sober me is going to be seriously pissed off at me tomorrow, I promise you that...  But I think that the Grey Ninja you all know would agree completely with The Omen on that one.

I know that I am prepared to call this one a stalemate.  I know that the sober me has a tendency to become enraged at a lot of things though, so I won't give a final answer.  I will just drink my sake in peace, and try to sober up by osmosis before I have to go to work.  I also bought some Dentine Ice Intense while I was at the store just in case.

I am off to watch Memento.  I heard it was good, and twisted.  That's what I like.  

[manunited4eva22]

If this is going to come to an end I would like to put some closing words in on this subject.

I agree with mouse clicker on this guy should not be judged, but for a different reason. How long did it take you guys to read the first post? 3 minutes maybe? How long was the video? 30 seconds? Okay. You know 3 minutes and 30 seconds of what happened. You spent 3 minutes and 30 seconds on this kid, and you feel you can judge what he has been through?

I really don't see how you can judge several months of god knows what in 210 seconds. I just really can't.

I mean what do we know?

-we know he was mocked by his school
-we know he was ridiculed on the internet
-we know he is in a mental institution at the moment or was
-we know his parents have filed a lawsuit
-we know he is receiving some money from groups, and possibly a part in star wars

what do we not know

-what exactly the mental breakdown he suffered was
-how severe the breakdown is
-the long term effects
-the outcome of the lawsuit
-his past
-his bullies' past
-how long he has gone through this

I could go on for a long time about what we don't know, because we barely know anything. We really don't. We are making inferences that this kid will be okay, or won't be okay, based on what our beliefs of human nature are based on.

I mean I really have to wonder, how hard will it be for him to get back on his feet? I really do hope that he will get over this, move on, and be better for it, but I really don't think this will be that easy for him. I just really can't.

I thought I had posted a part about mental diseases before, guess I didn't, but I won't redo that post, as I covered most of it in this one.

I just really have to ask you guys, do you think that the little information you know about him justifies you coming down on him? 210 seconds to that several months he has been through. Even if that little you know about him sounds similar to what you have been through, or even less than what you have been through, are you willing to jump to the conclusion that he should and would be able to get through this by himself? If you do, make more judgments in the future, but I only ask you to take into baring how little you know of what has transpired, and that most of your assumptions, are far from fact, and much further from justification.

Just my thoughts.

[mouse_clicker]

Well said, manunited- I completely agree with you. We've all jumped to conclusions here, but I feel that I've done the right thing, even if that was only pissing off people who disagreed with me.

Ninja: Just be forwarned that an extra fresh breath may draw more suspicion than you'd think.