Author Topic: This is why school shootings happen  (Read 45048 times)

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Offline HiTmaN

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2003, 10:38:54 PM »
All things aside, did anyone see this movie and laugh their asses off?
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Offline PIAC

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2003, 11:55:52 PM »
oh yeah, my school was utter rubbish, if you want a good education you have to pay for it anyone who wanted a decent education i knew went to a decent school, anyone who couldn't be assed or couldn't afford it was at my school, who wanted to pass and do well did, but alot didn't, i didn't even pass highschool, and im no dummy. im just lazy as all buggery

Offline BrianSLA

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2003, 12:16:49 AM »
Yeah that is a pretty sad story.... I downloaded the video from the link and ....... laughed my ass off, but it is still a sad story. I agree the parents should sue and win a lawsuit against all four boys. What they did went well beyond normal high school cruelty. They should pay. Yes during my high school years I had two incidents in which some A-holes made fun of me ... I did what normal High schoolers did. I kicked their a$$es. If something like this happened to me to this level ...... I'd probably would have taken a baseball bat to all four of those guys. In high school it is bad enough when one or even a few guys make fun of you but can you imagine an entire school, town, country, the world? I googled his name and found 7 plus pages on him in a COUPLE of languages. George Lucas should put the kid in Ep 3 to make him feel better / get back at those kids - of course if it sucks as bad as Ep 1 & Ep 2.... it might be worse!

Offline PIAC

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2003, 12:40:59 AM »
hey if i got to be in episode 3 i could handel being taunted

Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2003, 03:38:32 AM »
like i said, rumours are that he is gonna be given a small part in Episode III.

on 'Hyperspace', Starwars.com's new pay service (like IGN's Insider), there are webcams around the studio. SOmetimes, they give cryptic hints to various bits and pieces of story, characters and locations. One time, some production people were watching the video, in full view of the webcam. One of them scribbles on some paper, and reveals it to the camera. It said:

"Ghyislian! We love you!" (is that how you spell his name?)

So that's where the rumours started.

I didn't laugh as much as that 'Man in diapers' pic i see from time to time.
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Offline aoi tsuki

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2003, 07:28:12 AM »
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George Lucas should put the kid in Ep 3 to make him feel better / get back at those kids - of course if it sucks as bad as Ep 1 & Ep 2.... it might be worse!


If he does make it into Episode 3, nothing will really change. He'll just be the boy that George Lucas felt sorry for, and they'll just have more material to make fun of him since he was actually in a Star Wars movie.

The only way his situation will get better is if he changes himself, toughens up and gets some confidence. Losing some weight would help, although he might already be doing that considering his condition. When people see the change in him, they'll eventually lose interest.

The best thing for him to do is be successful in life, then return to his school for a renunion a few decades later and thank all the jerks that made fun of him for motivating him to greatness.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2003, 02:56:19 PM »
yeah. i think hiding behind a veil of protection is a bit weak. Having school bullies is normal i guess as it shows you where you stand. Bullies themselves bully because they have their own problems, and/or cause they think they rule. But having the WHOLE school make fun of you is a whole different  ball game. You'd usually go to your friends, but what if they laughed too? And the teachers.....you go to them for help, but again, what if THEY laughed?
You could move to a new school, but then what if everyone there laughed? It's a hopeless situation, and only the TOUGHEST of people would be able to overcome it. One thing that i find depressing is that the general population only highly regard people who have overcome some sort of disability of fear, for example, a guy learning to walk when doctors tell him he has no chance. For the kid, there are people willing to help, but they are few and far. If  met him, and he asked for my help, i would most definitely give the most i can, no doubt about it. I wouldn't snicker, laugh or say anything about him behind his back.
I'd give my full support.
I find it weird cause despite my social misgivings, i wasn't teased or made fun of. Seriously!
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Offline Grey Ninja

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2003, 03:24:53 PM »
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One thing that i find depressing is that the general population only highly regard people who have overcome some sort of disability of fear, for example, a guy learning to walk when doctors tell him he has no chance


It's called courage.  It's a widely respected ability because it's something that everyone finds difficult to do, and is one of the few human abilities that almost never has a negative effect on others.  It's not a disability of fear, but an ability to overcome your fears and become a better person because of that.

If you don't have that, you are a coward, and liability to yourself and others.

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For the kid, there are people willing to help, but they are few and far. If met him, and he asked for my help, i would most definitely give the most i can, no doubt about it.


I don't know what I would do to tell the truth.  I would probably slap him in the face and tell him to grow up.

When I first heard that he was suing the people who distributed his movie, I was going to go hunt down his email address and flame the hell out of him.  But someone pointed out to me that it was his parents doing that and not him.  That made me keep my mouth shut about him for a while.  The way I see it, the kid had it coming.

Millions of people have seen the video and laughed about it.  I know when I first saw it, I was laughing myself to tears, and since I was in a public place, I was annoying the hell out of everyone else in the room until they saw what I was watching...  then they joined in.  We were laughing because it was something that we all did, but not quite that badly.  It was hilarious because the kid was SO uncoordinated when we are used to seeing that kind of stuff done by martial arts masters.

The way I see it, he doesn't need my money, my support, or my shoulder to cry on.

If I was walking down the street, and the crow that continually makes angry noises at me and flies close by my head every time I walk by, (I'm serious... this happens) decided to peck me and I did the smart thing and ran away, and someone got that on video and distributed it, I assure you that I would be downloading it a week later and laughing my ass off.

Would that entitle me to sue the person doing that and enable me to receive donations from a bunch of saps on the internet?

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I wouldn't snicker, laugh or say anything about him behind his back.  I'd give my full support.


I'd laugh right to his face.  

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It's a hopeless situation, and only the TOUGHEST of people would be able to overcome it.


I don't know what to say about this.  Ummm... you are full of crap?  I have met MANY people mocked by the whole school, and they invariably show up each day.

I have met people with abusive parents and no friends who don't kill themselves or check into an insane asylum.

I was one of the people who you speak of, and I am not a particularly strong person.  I am just dutiful.

You and Mouse Clicker are probably from middle class families, and have never experienced anything like this.  I don't really think that makes you good people to judge this situation.  To you guys, this is like watching one of those sob stories on the news where they show a bunch of perfectly healthy kids playing in the dirt and wearing rags and want you to send money.  When you send money, you get that warm feeling in your hearts that you made some little kid's life happier without much thought about other things.

Am I cold heartless bastard like Mouse Clicker is implying?  I might be.  I really don't know.  I do know that I have first and second hand experience with cases like this, and I think that the bastard is being treated too damn well as it is.  Ordinarilly, people would just have to live with this, and live each day at a time.  But since millions of suckers watched the tape, they feel that they have to feel sorry for the poor little guy and send money.  I just feel that he's neither deserving of money (aside from the entertainment value he provided), and he should just grow a freaking backbone and accept life as it comes.

I just think that the money is better spent elsewhere, like putting holes in the sides of whaling ships or something.
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Offline HiTmaN

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2003, 03:36:30 PM »
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I don't know what I would do to tell the truth. I would probably slap him in the face and tell him to grow up.



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I'd laugh right to his face.


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It's a hopeless situation, and only the TOUGHEST of people would be able to overcome it.


Grey Ninja...my sides are killing me from laughing. And to the person that said Its a hopeless situation, seriously you gotta go outside into the REAL WORLD. People get mocked everyday just because of what they wear, look like, or if they arent up to current things. I'll admit I've done some pretty cruel things to kids who weren't very popular, but I mean life goes on. Ya ok this kid was taped and it was posted on the internet. Kids made fun of him at school, SO WHAT. You may have to listen to all the rumors and insults, but its not like you have to pay attention to them.
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Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2003, 03:48:25 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: PIAC
i was far from popular, but i had a pretty big group of friends.


Sounds kinda like me, I had friends that were the 'popular' people and then those that 'weren't'  I was someone in between I guess.  I wasn't nameless but I wasn't out in front either.

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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2003, 04:21:55 PM »
You're absolutely right. I am a middle class citizen. BUt you are wrong where you say i have never experienced this sort of thing. I have.
But I'm sorry I don't have abusive parents. I'm sorry I have friends, I'm sorry I'm not suicidal, and I'm sorry I'm not checking in to an asylum.
Is that a bad thing?
No.
I would rather help a person than slap them in that face, as you so eloquently put it. Have I sent him money? No. I don;t think he's deserving either, but he got the money. Live with it. It's just that if he was my friend, I would help him, but tell him to try and defend himself, not abandon him outright, as you seem perfectly comfortable with doing.
I guess you are closer to him than I am, so yeah, that doesn't make me a good person to talk about the situation, but does that take away my right to?
No.
I am merely offering my perspective on it. Im sorry I can't see it with your battle-hardened eye, but i feel support is better than leaving someone to fend for themselves is a bit wrong.
Say what you will, but that's my stance.
And for now, i must get back to Uni.

Do you guys have something like Kids Helpline? It's a service here in Australia where kids can ring up anonymously and talk to someone who cares about their problems when they have no one else to talk to. You'd be amazed at the support it gets here.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2003, 04:23:49 PM »
Listen, Grey Ninja, you can argue all you want about this, but I'd rather not get further than this.
Let's just leave it there.

*offers handshake*
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Offline Grey Ninja

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2003, 05:08:55 PM »
I didn't even want it to get this far, but I had some things I REALLY needed to say, as some of the things said I disagreed with from the very bottom of my soul.

*shakes hand*

We have universal health care, universal education, and we do have a Children's Help Line in Canada btw.  We are a socialist country, and we try to look after everyone.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2003, 06:07:03 PM »
YAY!
We are friends again!
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Offline ThePerm

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2003, 07:19:03 PM »
the balance is in a cross between socialism and democracy...you cant have pure democracy or your screwed...you cant have pure socialism if your screwed...both...then good!
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Offline Grey Ninja

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2003, 07:27:34 PM »
Erm... democracy and socialism don't have much to do with eachother.  

Democracy is a political system.
Socialism is a social system.

Canada is a Democratic socialist system.
The United States is a Democratic capitalist system.
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2003, 09:51:08 PM »
I only hope the people that you need most later in life, Ninja, don't follow your same I-don't-give-a-damn mentality.  : |

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oh yeah, my school was utter rubbish, if you want a good education you have to pay for it  anyone who wanted a decent education i knew went to a decent school, anyone who couldn't be assed or couldn't afford it was at my school,


This isn't meant to be derivitive or anything, but how does the school system in Australia work? In America, public schools are pretty much all the same and you get pretty much the same education no matter which one you go to (since what is taught is mandated by the state). Sometimes you'll get a really good teach you learn a lot from, but most of the time high school teachers are all hard boiled by high school students and pretty apathetic as to whether or not you pass. It's still a great education, though, no matter how much flack the American school system gets- I've certainly learned a lot, and with relatively little effort.
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Offline PIAC

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2003, 11:14:23 PM »
ours is pretty much like the american system as you described it. but i take full responsibility for my failing, i could have tried alot harder, i just couldn't be bothered, and the school i was at didnt' really help, was easier for them to help the winners and let the losers slip through the cracks. for example i attempted software design and we were told 'teach your selfs' and im a horrid self teacher *looks at guitar with dust* so i went back into IPT (a ghey watered down computer course) and the teacher there spent more time talking to my mate about Jazz than teaching, so subsiquently we played Liero alot etc etc

Offline ThePerm

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2003, 01:32:37 AM »
hmmm well in arizona(states very) oyu have till your 22 to graduate from high shcool. If oyu dont youll have to gt a ged. There are socialist laws in hte U.S. I can't name them right now. But my free enterprise book went into detail. Like we have limits on monopoly....wellfare, medicare...etc.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2003, 03:21:51 AM »
I can only really say this for NSW, and I assume all the other states are similar:

It is compulsory to go from Kidergarten to Year 10. IN year 10, you do the School Certificate (SC). This determines if you are eligible to go onto year 11 and year 12. If you don't wanna go into year 11, or failed your SC, you can:
-get a job
-or get an apprenticeship

Well, when you get up to Year 12, you'll be around 17 or 18 years old. At the end, you do the Higher School Certificate (HSC) exams, which determines if you'll be able to get into the University course you want. Most people go straight to University after High School, but I believe that number is falling.
If you don't get into Uni, and/or failed the HSC, then you can do a number of things:
-First, you can go to TAFE, which is like a lower form of Uni.
-Second, do either of the two things above
-Third, you can just bludge your way through life, and learn things yourself.
-And finally, you can repeat Year 12, and do your HSC again. I think with this option, you have a maximum of four tries.

I went straight to Uni.
Infernal's going to TAFE, and Mario is at school AND doing TAFE.

That's the basic crust of it. If there's more to the NSW school system, then Mario and Infernal, feel free to add to that.
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Offline nitsu niflheim

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2003, 04:54:52 AM »
-(NO REAL FINALLY) You can hook up with a rich person and mooch off them for the rest of your life.

My english teacher was mad I didn't go to college, but after 4 years of high school I just didn't want to be bothered.  If I had taken the SAT's I probably would have gotten v. high marks and gone to just about any college I wanted to, but I didn't want to.  So from 1996 (year I graduated) to 1999 I sat on my ass at home and didn't get a job until after Thanksgiving 1999, and have been working there since too.
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Offline Ms.Pikmin

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2003, 06:24:10 AM »
Oh great, now a nerve has been struck with me and I am ready to babble on about the how the US educational system sucks.  It is true that the big great US says it will offer an education to each and every child blah blah blah.  But much of the funding for schools comes at the state level and is based  on taxes paid in that area.  So neighborhoods with wealthier people=more funding for the schools.  So, schools in poorer areas don't get as much money.  We do not live in a wealthy area, but it not a poor one either.  The only way for our school to keep much of the special programs it has is for us as parents to have fund raisers throughout the school year.  You would not believe the amount we have to do.  We even donate basic school school supplies to our kids individual classrooms to help take the burden off the teachers themselves.  And, of course, state government will set up programs for poorer kids, but at budget time these things sometimes take a hit.  

Mouseclicker, I know you have had a bad week on these boards and I don't want to make you feel picked on.  But, I have to say that you are wrong when you say that the education you get in this country is the same pretty much wherever you go.  My mother was poor and my father wealthy (that is a whole other story).  I lived with each of them at different times and I will say the junior high I went to in 7th grade living with my mom was completely different than the school I went to in 8th grade living with my dad.  I won't go on about it because I don't want to start an argument with you, but try to open your eyes to what is happening at different schools even in your own city and you may be surprised.    

I know this was barely even mentioned but healthcare here is way worse than the education system.  We do give healthcare to the poor, but you have to be VERY poor to get it.  There are millions of "working poor" people who do not qualify and their employers do not cover them.  Also, employers are not obligated to cover whole families, just the employee.  This result is obvious.  Mom or dad has insurance but it doesn't cover the spouse or kids.  

Okay, I'll shut up now. *sighs*


   

Offline The Omen

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2003, 07:11:37 PM »
I'd like to personally thank Grey Ninja for saving me the trouble and aggravation of posting on this topic by stating my opinions brilliantly.
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Offline Termin8Anakin

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RE: This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2003, 09:06:55 PM »
Australia's state school funds come from the federal government. All the catholic primary schools, catholic high schools and all private school get their funding from the parents of the students. The parents themselves don't have to donate school supplies or anything. It all goes into the school fees, and the school itself buys them.
I went to a catholic primary school, then to a cathlolic high school. Then it closed down cause the Board of Studies said so, so then I went to a private high school.
One of the things that you americans have to know is that going into some private schools (like mine, St Patrick's College Strathfield) isn't about how wealthy you are. As long as you do your best acedemically and socially, then you're fine. There are some private schools (like Kings, Waverly College and S.C.E.G.G.S), and boarding schools that depend on their rich students to uphold their poshy traditions and 'values'. I'm not rich or anything, and my parents didn't have contacts in the Government to get me in to that private school. I got in solely for my acedemic merit, which degraded toward Year 12. Hahaha.
One of the funny things is that our school's got heaps of famous people. The NSW Leader of Opposition, John Brogden, went to our school, as did famous author Tom Keneally - who's novel was made into the movie 'Schindler's List' by Mr Speilberg.
So yeah..
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Offline mouse_clicker

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RE:This is why school shootings happen
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2003, 09:33:56 PM »
Quote

Mouseclicker, I know you have had a bad week on these boards and I don't want to make you feel picked on. But, I have to say that you are wrong when you say that the education you get in this country is the same pretty much wherever you go."


I'm sure the quality of the teaching instruments changes as you go from school to school, city by city, but the state and country DO mandate what has to be taught, so everyone's getting the same base education. I personally don't live in a rich city (nor a poor city) and the schools I've been to have been wonderful. I know people who live in the slums of my city and the ones that are stupid aren't stupid because of their school, they're stupid because they never put any effort into it. I also know people from the ritzier side of the city and none of them are smart because of the school they went to. You can get a great education out of any school- I seen it personally, and just because one school gets a little better funding because of it being in a richer neighborhood doesn't mean it's students are going to be any smarter. Like many people have said, what you get out of school is what you put into it, regardless of what expensive teaching aids or lack thereof different schools have.

And then you have the fundamental paradox- people in the US complain constantly about how little funding the school system gets, and how little teachers get paid, yet those same people don't want to pay the higher taxes that those things would entail. They want the quality to improve but they don't want to foot the bill for it, so the quality never actually does improve.

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I know this was barely even mentioned but healthcare here is way worse than the education system.


That has very little to do with neighborhoods or taxes or anything- the problem with the American health care system is that it's base on private enterprise, so you have to pay for good quality and most people simply can't afford that. I'm not saying it's good- like you said, it's horrible than many working poor can't afford health care, especially when the need it most (the excellent movie John Q expressed this point excellently). However, free health care systems aren't much better, if at all. What you get out of a free health care system (which is funded by taxes, similar to our school system) is what you put into it, and one look at how much our schools get will tell you the level of quality of a free health care system. My dad personally knows many doctors who worked in Canada and the UK who had to quit their jobs because they couldn't support their families on the income they make- similar to teachers in the US.

Termin8: Your school system sounds very similar to ours except with some different names. In the US general schooling is kindegarten through 12th grade- kindegarten isn't required but heavily reccomended. Elementary school is generally 1st-5th grade, middle school is 6th-8th grade, and high school is 9th-12th grade (aka freshman, sophomore, junior, and senior grades). Legally you have to go to school until you're 18, I think, although that may vary state by state. After you graduate high school people generally take either the SAT or ACT, both of which are tests that judge what colleges/universities will accept you. You don't have to go to college, but it's very hard to find a good career if you don't. Colleges are generally 4 years and junior colleges are 2 years. Sounds pretty much the same excluding the test to get into 11th and 12th grade.
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