Topic: Could it be bad if other developers handle games?

[Bartman3010]

We've all played Wario World, even though Treasure was behind it, it missed the great flare all Treasure (And in fact, Nintendo) games share, and recent reports at E3 found Star Fox GCN/Armada/Whatever hard to control and uninteresting. Could F-Zero or the other games become bad news for Nintendo?

[KnowsNothing]

Defidently not.  F-Zero GX got a gold on th Famitsu reveiws (i think), and all reports say it's a blast to play.  Wario World, I have no explanation for, but for Star Fox Armada, the controls can be tweaked at any time.  At E3 Mario Kart: Double Dash!! was slow and lacked power slides, but both of those issue are being addressed and it's being released before Star Fox Armada.

Have faith.

[SuperLink666]

Gives Nintendo more time to work on their own projects while we still get franchises that will for sure sell great

[Ian Sane]

When it was annouced that Namco and Sega were working on Nintendo franchises I was really worried that they wouldn't quite "get" what makes the franchises fun and would f*ck them up.  So far it seems like my worries were only half right.  Namco was greatly disappointed me with what they've shown of Star Fox while Sega on the other hand has managed to make exactly what I wanted with the only exceptions being that I wanted a track editor and LAN play.  I guess one out of two is okay.  I do however feel that Wario World and Mario Golf are wastes of Treasure and Camelot's talent.

What I think would be a better approach to working with other developers is to let them do their own thing and thus diversify Nintendo's lineup.  Treasure shouldn't be restricted to using the Wario license.  They're a very creative developer and Nintendo should basically let them do what they want.  Camelot should be working on an RPG instead of Mario sports titles.  What Ninendo should be doing is publishing these companies' games, while letting them present their own concepts and ideas.  That way instead of making another Mario spinoff game they could potentially make a system seller that Nintendo themselves would never have made themselves.  The result is a greater variety of original titles that appeals to a wider audience beyond Nintendo's hardcore fanbase.  The only downside is that some of our favourite games won't have sequels made but I don't think we really need another Mario Party or Mario Tennis.  I would much prefer more new stuff then more franchise spinoff stuff.  As long as the big games like Metroid, Zelda, and Mario have sequels the rest are not as important.

[Michael8983]

You make it sound like Nintendo forced them to make these games or something.
They're both third-party developers and can make their own choices. They're developing these games because they wanted to. The original Mario sports title were huge sellers so of course Camelot wants to make sequels. Most of Treasure's games do really poorly so I'm sure it jumped at the chance to borrow one of Nintendo's most famous mascots for a game.

Also, you seem to have a lack of faith in Mario Tennis and Golf. The games will sell systems.
They may not cause a massive increase in Gamecube sales but I don't think any game could accomplish that. I doubt any original game from Camelot could sell as well or sell as many systems as those games will. Not even close. An entirely original RPG from Camelot would, sadly, probably bomb on the Gamecube. I definitly want to see original titles from Camelot and Treasure but don't fool yourself into thinking that they'd be making MASSIVE system sellers that would kick of HUGE new franchises if not for Nintendo wanting more sequels to Mario and Wario games.

[Ian Sane]

I'm not saying that they would be making huge system sellers but, they could.  They certainly never will if they just make Mario spinoffs.  At the very least they would add some diversity to Nintendo's lineup.  Nintendo been relying way too much on their established franchises to sell systems and it obviously isn't working.  Mario has become overexposed and stale in the minds of the average gamer.  A hundred Mario spinoff games are not going to sell systems anymore and their existance hurts the appeal of "real" Mario platformers.  The release of a Mario platformer should be a big deal but it's appeal is lessened when some sort of Mario game is released every year.  A lot of the original Playstation's big hits were original franchises.  Sequels and established franchises sell well but they don't always sell systems.

I really doubt an original Camelot RPG would bomb on the Gamecube if Nintendo gave it the same marketing push as Camelot's GBA RPG Golden Sun.  There are very few RPGs on the Gamecube right now and I think one published by Nintendo would sell decently enough with RPG starved Gamecube owners.  It certainly wouldn't bomb.  Plus it fills in a big gap in Nintendo lineup so in the future there will always be an RPG series on Nintendo consoles.  I'm not just thinking of Gamecube sales but of the success of future Nintendo consoles.  Nintendo needs an exclusive RPG series so they should get Camelot to make one.

Besides who honestly when they first played Mario Golf and Mario Tennis thought to the themselves "man I really hope Nintendo releases sequels to these games on a new console."  I mean the N64 games were great but they don't really require sequels.  Mario Golf and Mario Tennis are unneeded sequels and thus are a waste of a great developer that could be working on something new.

[KnowsNothing]

I happen to be very excited about Mario Golf for GC.  Mario Golf is one of my favortie games of all time and I think the sequel will be great.  I've heard alot of complaints about the controls, but the game isn't even out yet, and playing tiny little demos with horrible controllers does it absolutley no justice.  

I'm getting it, and it will be fun.

[Merlin]

I agree that Nintendo needs to have new ideas and not keep spinning of Mario type games all the time.  take Pikmim a good new idea. We need more of this.  Once people start seeing that Nintendo is trying to make more than just Mario type games and spin offs then they will have a larger share of the console pie again.  

[Michael8983]

"Nintendo been relying way too much on their established franchises to sell systems and it obviously isn't working"

It's working. It may not be working amazingly well but it's working.
The Gamecube is selling on par with the N64 last I heard, it's still ahead of the XBox worldwide (despite MS burning money like mad trying to sell consoles - just think of how things would stand if MS wasn't willing to do so), and Nintendo is making a nice profit off of it.
The Gamecube isn't selling as well as it deserves but I think that has very little to do with the games.

"A hundred Mario spinoff games are not going to sell systems"

Where are you getting that? Of course they'll still sell systems. Mario Kart is going to be the biggest system seller the Gamecube has had since Smash Bros which actually boosted Gamecube sells exponentially in some markets.
It won't boost it to PS2 levels but, like I said, it's unlikely any game would.


I agree with most of what you're saying. The Gamecube needs more original franchises and Nintendo shouldn't rely entirely on its existing franchises but I just think you're completely wrong in dismissing the existing franchises as being powerless to sell systems and are over-estimating what orignal franchises could do for the console.

Camelot is highly rumored to already be making an RPG along with the Mario Sports titles.
It's not like it has to choose between just making Mario Sports titles and original games. It can do both. It can make games with existing franchises to sell systems NOW while creating original games that MIGHT someday be big after they get a few sequels.
Anyway, the whole point of Nintendo allowing third-party developers to use its mascots is it will allow Nintendo to free up its own resources to create original titles itself. According to Miyamoto, there are many such titles being developed now. They just haven't been revealed yet. I think they were supposed to be shown at E3 but they obviously weren't for some reason. I think maybe Nintendo was worried people would overlook the original games in favor of existing franchise games like Mario Kart, MGS, and Final Fantasy and it was probably right about that.

"Mario Golf and Mario Tennis are unneeded sequels and thus are a waste of a great developer that could be working on something new."

Maybe from your perspective but Nintendo and Camelot are companies and they mostly care about money so, if they really had to choose, of course they'd favor making games that are sure-bets to sell well and at least sell some systems instead of taking a risk that almost certainly wouldn't fare as well.
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City was sure as hell an unneeded sequel but I doubt Rockstar regrets making it.

[mouse_clicker]

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It's working. It may not be working amazingly well but it's working.
The Gamecube is selling on par with the N64 last I heard, it's still ahead of the XBox worldwide (despite MS burning money like mad trying to sell consoles - just think of how things would stand if MS wasn't willing to do so), and Nintendo is making a nice profit off of it.
The Gamecube isn't selling as well as it deserves but I think that has very little to do with the games.

It's keeping Nintendo around, that's what it's doing. And the Gamecube SHOULD be selling a lot better, if Nintendo just tried a little. Saying it's selling on par with the N64 isn't saying much at all- the Gamecube NEEDS to be selling a lot better than both the N64 and the XBox, not just barely.

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"Where are you getting that? Of course they'll still sell systems. Mario Kart is going to be the biggest system seller the Gamecube has had since Smash Bros which actually boosted Gamecube sells exponentially in some markets.
It won't boost it to PS2 levels but, like I said, it's unlikely any game would."

Mario Kart does, but what about 4 Mario Parties, or 3 Mario Tennis and Golfs- if Nintendo stopped stamping Mario on everything, the franchise would carry the system better, as IanSane said. I'm not too worried about the Zelda spin-offs coming out, but it IS a testament that Nintendo is relying more on more on already proven names rather than creating more. And Nintendo COULD reach Sony's numbers if they just tried- they seem so apothetic right now and I know if they just tried they could easily soar above the competition.

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"Maybe from your perspective but Nintendo and Camelot are companies and they mostly care about money so, if they really had to choose, of course they'd favor making games that are sure-bets to sell well and at least sell some systems instead of taking a risk that almost certainly wouldn't fare as well. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City was sure as hell an unneeded sequel but I doubt Rockstar regrets making it."

But if they ONLY rely on things that are proven to sell, those things soon stop selling so well and the developer has backed themself into a corner. I understand that Mario sports are titles that do sell and have an established place, but that's the ONLY thing Camelot's made besides the two Golden Sun games for years, and both sports titles will be the third in their respective franchises. If developers never take risks, there'd be no new franchises, no new characters, or anything- we'd be playing the same games over and over and over again and people would get sick of it. Vice City's not a good example because GTA's only really been popular since GTA3 and Rockstar has a TON of other franchises that it's continously experimenting with rather than relying only on GTA. Camelot's pretty much just made Mario Golf and Tennis. If that's all they ever doe, Nintendo's missing out on a developer that could really boost sales.

[HiTmaN]

Nintendo has the potential to be #1 and we have seen it before. Hopefully we will see it again, but I really do not like Mario Golf. I mean...Mario Tennis, Mario Kart, Super Mario.....MARIO GOLF?! It just doesnt excite me. Anyway Nintendo has the talent, just isnt using their talent to its fullest. "The worst thing in life is wasted talent." is the quote Nintendo should go by. The person who guesses what movie that quote is from wins absolutely nothing!

[VoodooMerlin]

Why is it that whenever anyone decides to slam Nintendo the first word out of their mouths is "Mario"?

Change is good in many instances. A different developer can put a new spin on a stale franchise. Look at an old favorite with new eyes. Would you actually LIKE to play the same old franchises done the same old ways on every Nintendo platform that arises in the future? I wouldn't.

The developers that you people seem to have little faith in aren't exactly inexperienced lightweights. If the guys over on the XboX forums started saying "I dunno about these Rare guys. They might not be able to make a decent game" you'd laugh your collective bag off.

Sometimes it doesn't work out. Every system is entitled to it's share of flops. The main thing is that Nintendo tries it.

[kennyb27]

Well, Hitman, I always wanted nothing, so I'll go with "Bronx Tale" with Robert DeNiro.

Back to the original topic, sure it could be bad, but Nintendo isn't just handing out these titles.  They are overseeing the production and double-checking the final product.

[ThePerm]

well remember the first build of star fox adventures and metroid wer epretty scary...i think Nintendo demands a certain level of quality and when those games do coem out they will be awesome. From the start Wario seemd to be a quick release title. Its not great, but its good.