Author Topic: RFN RetroActive #32: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (Official Thread)  (Read 26495 times)

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Offline Jonnyboy117

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Hi everyone! This is the place to discuss Twilight Princess for RFN's upcoming RetroActive feature. Please feel free to leave comments, ask questions, and share tips about the game. As a reminder, we will quote some of the best posts from this forum thread and read excerpts on the podcast during the RetroActive discussion, which is currently expected around mid-May. That gives everyone plenty of time to play through this lengthy adventure, one of the only games released on two different Nintendo consoles simultaneously (at least since the mid-90s).

We hope you'll play along with the RFN crew and discover, or re-discover, this unique entry in the Zelda series! Of course, Twilight Princess is available for both GameCube and Wii. You may want to note which version you're playing, especially if discussing controls.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 03:02:50 PM by Jonnyboy117 »
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Offline Mop it up

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Huh, I guess I missed the vote on this one. I actually don't think I've played this game in a few years, so I wouldn't mind giving it another go, but I'm not sure if now's the time for that...

Offline Shaymin

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There's going to be plenty of time to play this one, don't worry.
Donald Theriault - News Editor, Nintendo World Report / 2016 Nintendo World Champion
Tutorial box out.

Offline ejamer

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I've never played it, and was trying to decide what game to play next.  I'm in.
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Offline scrawnton

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I have been playing this game off and on a bit ever since it was announced as the winner. Some very quick impressions are that I am impressed with how well the gameplay holds up and how badly a lot of games last generation dumbed down world and gameplay mechanics while this game showed unique ways to interact with the world. Even though the start of the game is still very slow, I really missed the idea of smaller, quaint towns in video games where you get to know every NPC. When it comes to NPCs and town villages/cities, sometimes less is more (I hope nintendo remembers that when they develop the new Wii U zelda, we do not need a giant city of lifeless NPCs that most western and open world games have).

Offline pokepal148

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What's remarkable about Twilight Princess is how much the game rewards going off the beaten path to see what you can find.

Also, fun thing: there is special dialogue for if while talking to the mayor to get the iron boots you talk to everyone else in the village as well.
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Offline scrawnton

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What's remarkable about Twilight Princess is how much the game rewards going off the beaten path to see what you can find.

Also, fun thing: there is special dialogue for if while talking to the mayor to get the iron boots you talk to everyone else in the village as well.


This is one of the small world aspects to gaming we lost as things got much bigger and more open. I like walking around the world during different parts of the games progression to see how NPCs change what they say to Link. It adds to the realism of the world and makes for a much more engaging experience.

Offline pokepal148

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Twilight Princess as a whole... well I mean I should preface this by saying that in OOT you had several settlements but they all felt so isolated from eachother I mean the Zoras basically had their own little corner of Hyrule, the Gorons seemed fairly isolated from Kakariko Village considering they are literally right next door to eachother,

And to top it all off nobody seems to be aware that the Kokiri even exist except for Malon (come to think of it her mother is mentioned to have passed away when she was very young, oh Talon you dirty...)

But in Twilight Princess everything seems much more interconnected. Zora's Domain freezing over causes a massive water shortage in Castletown, The Gorons having their issues causes Kakariko Village to suffer immensely because Kakariko relies on the Gorons to help produce bombs.

Hyrule, for the first time, actually feels interconnected to the point where issues in one area can have an affect on another.  To put it bluntly for the first time Hyrule actually feels like a kingdom as opposed to a handful of disconnected settlements.
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I voted for Super Mario Sunshine but I'm still happy this game won. It'll probably make for a better discussion.

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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I've completed the first dungeon and figured now would be a good point to share my initial thoughts. Actually, after typing this up, maybe I should be posting these as some sort of article on the website!  Anyway, for those brave enough to continue reading this post, thank you.

1) The tutorial design and pacing for the first hour or two, up until you first meet Princess Zelda, is pretty atrocious. The game clumsily attempts to guide the player through the basic controls while also moving the story along and, well, the game's beginning fails at both. The first thing I'm told to do is get my horse, Epona. But when I try to walk forward, I'm told, "Hey, you need to get your horse!" Yeah, I know, and my horse isn't in sight. What I didn't notice, maybe due to the subdued graphics or my stupidly not glancing at the map, was that I had to go the other way to the pond, to find Epona. Maybe I'm just dense, but it took me way too long to realize they were  trying to tell me, "Hey, there's another path. Go down the path over there." The same kind of crap played out a few more times in that stupid little town: herding cats and failing because I didn't go fishing, fishing but not being close enough to the cat for the cat to actually eat the fish, using the hawk for the beehive target first and then incorrectly thinking I was done with using the hawk, and hitting the targets when being taught to use the slingshot….but failing because apparently the scarecrows are also targets and they don't tell you. Why the hell is the game trying to throw curve balls at the same moment a mechanic is being introduced?! Yeah, I get that everyone has played a Zelda game before and they want to keep things interesting, but it still comes off as a poor design decision. And herding the goats…twice?! Sheesh! It's like the game is trolling the player with a series of pranks before getting to the fun stuff.

2) There's some sloppy execution when you first start as the wolf, too. I probably rammed into that wooden crate in the prison cell five times looking for someplace to dig. I figured I must have the wrong idea, but in reality I was just slightly off. Super frustrating. The sequence leading up to meeting Zelda isn't as bad, but is still a poor showcase of boring corridors that can cause disorientation.

3) Fortunately, once the game gives up on tutorials it becomes so much better! The portion with the wolf where you're exploring the town and the tear-collecting sequence in the forest is surprisingly enjoyable, given how much I hated the similar sequences in Skyward Sword. I think there are a couple of reasons why the twilight realm sequences work better in this game than in Skyward Sword. For one thing, stealth sequences suck. Yeah, I'm showing my bias, but screw stealth in Zelda games and games in general. But Skyward Sword also had a timer which, if depleted, forced you to repeat the last 10 minutes of torture, which was at odds with the exploration objective. Also, I think that exploring the Twilight Realm version first, plus having a different control scheme as the wolf (that is really fun!), makes the "recycling" of the environments feel less egregious. I find that I WANT  to explore the bizarre new area in Twilight as a wolf, and then again once the twilight is lifted!

4) I always recalled Twilight Princess as being kind of an ugly game with muted colors and bad character designs. While I think there's some truth to that, I've actually been impressed with the art style and presentation so far. The colors ARE muted, but it sets a nice ambience that goes well with the Twilight Realm and gives an overall sense of a tattered, used, and depressed world just barely getting by. And while I'm still not a fan of many of the character designs in the first town, there are some impressive facial animations that really portray emotions. There's a great moment where both Link and the mayor are being scolded by Illia, and the two guys shrink away a little, wince, and look at each other with mutual understanding. Midna similarly has some really well animated sequences when she's playing mind games with Link in wolf form. Also, the Twilight art style is integrated well: instead of inexplicable magical light pillars that show up after a boss, Minda conjures a portal, and instead of the first boss just shriveling up or going "poof", it disintegrates into black Twilight pixels.

5) Is it me, or is the first dungeon surprisingly meaty? There certainly isn't much hand-holding by the time you reach the first dungeon. Heck, Midna doesn't even give hints on how to proceed or combat enemies (a welcome change from Navi & Fi). I'm not saying the first dungeon is super difficult, it does feel like the team felt comfortable assuming folks had played a prior Zelda game, be it OoT or WW. Majora's Mask has a similar difficulty curve, in my opinion. It makes sense: both MM and TP are the second Zelda games for the N64 and GC, respectively.

6) The waggle in the Wii version sucks. I've not swung my sword SO MANY TIMES, and it feels so much worse after Skyward Sword's excellent controls. Sure, I get widescreen with the Wii version, and the aiming mechanics work pretty well for the slingshot and boomerang, but I suspect the GameCube version is more enjoyable, overall. If Nintendo remakes Twilight Princess for Wii U, they would be wise to include a motionless control scheme as an option, although it would also be interesting to see them retrofit Wii Motion Plus into such a remake. (Then again, I doubt I'll be buying a remake if one is made thanks to this RetroActive.)
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Offline pokepal148

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I've completed the first dungeon and figured now would be a good point to share my initial thoughts. Actually, after typing this up, maybe I should be posting these as some sort of article on the website!  Anyway, for those brave enough to continue reading this post, thank you.

1) The tutorial design and pacing for the first hour or two, up until you first meet Princess Zelda, is pretty atrocious. The game clumsily attempts to guide the player through the basic controls while also moving the story along and, well, the game's beginning fails at both. The first thing I'm told to do is get my horse, Epona. But when I try to walk forward, I'm told, "Hey, you need to get your horse!" Yeah, I know, and my horse isn't in sight. What I didn't notice, maybe due to the subdued graphics or my stupidly not glancing at the map, was that I had to go the other way to the pond, to find Epona. Maybe I'm just dense, but it took me way too long to realize they were  trying to tell me, "Hey, there's another path. Go down the path over there." The same kind of crap played out a few more times in that stupid little town: herding cats and failing because I didn't go fishing, fishing but not being close enough to the cat for the cat to actually eat the fish, using the hawk for the beehive target first and then incorrectly thinking I was done with using the hawk, and hitting the targets when being taught to use the slingshot….but failing because apparently the scarecrows are also targets and they don't tell you. Why the hell is the game trying to throw curve balls at the same moment a mechanic is being introduced?! Yeah, I get that everyone has played a Zelda game before and they want to keep things interesting, but it still comes off as a poor design decision. And herding the goats…twice?! Sheesh! It's like the game is trolling the player with a series of pranks before getting to the fun stuff.
Actually, the kid does explicitly tell you 'hey, use the side path to get in'

But I have heard that the long tutorial was tacked on to increase accessibility in case a more casual player picked this up.

Quote
2) There's some sloppy execution when you first start as the wolf, too. I probably rammed into that wooden crate in the prison cell five times looking for someplace to dig. I figured I must have the wrong idea, but in reality I was just slightly off. Super frustrating. The sequence leading up to meeting Zelda isn't as bad, but is still a poor showcase of boring corridors that can cause disorientation.

Agreed. The whole Twilight effect works best in a wide open area. It really doesn't look that good in a more closed off area.

Quote
3) Fortunately, once the game gives up on tutorials it becomes so much better! The portion with the wolf where you're exploring the town and the tear-collecting sequence in the forest is surprisingly enjoyable, given how much I hated the similar sequences in Skyward Sword. I think there are a couple of reasons why the twilight realm sequences work better in this game than in Skyward Sword. For one thing, stealth sequences suck. Yeah, I'm showing my bias, but screw stealth in Zelda games and games in general. But Skyward Sword also had a timer which, if depleted, forced you to repeat the last 10 minutes of torture, which was at odds with the exploration objective. Also, I think that exploring the Twilight Realm version first, plus having a different control scheme as the wolf (that is really fun!), makes the "recycling" of the environments feel less egregious. I find that I WANT  to explore the bizarre new area in Twilight as a wolf, and then again once the twilight is lifted!

Its a very good way to sort of tease the player because you can easily find something as a wolf that you need an item as regular Link to deal with.

also, I'm skipping the 4th point because I want to discuss that one seperately.

Quote
5) Is it me, or is the first dungeon surprisingly meaty? There certainly isn't much hand-holding by the time you reach the first dungeon. Heck, Midna doesn't even give hints on how to proceed or combat enemies (a welcome change from Navi & Fi). I'm not saying the first dungeon is super difficult, it does feel like the team felt comfortable assuming folks had played a prior Zelda game, be it OoT or WW. Majora's Mask has a similar difficulty curve, in my opinion. It makes sense: both MM and TP are the second Zelda games for the N64 and GC, respectively.
The first dungeon is one of the best examples I can think of for, what I call, "handholding without handholding". Instead of having Navi or Fi just directly tell you what to do they have the Monkeys do various gestures and such to beckon you to go somewhere. This is means the game can guide the player without making the player feel like they are just being pushed around and told what to do for every single situation. (A phenomenon I like to call, "Playing Skyward Sword")

Quote
6) The waggle in the Wii version sucks. I've not swung my sword SO MANY TIMES, and it feels so much worse after Skyward Sword's excellent controls. Sure, I get widescreen with the Wii version, and the aiming mechanics work pretty well for the slingshot and boomerang, but I suspect the GameCube version is more enjoyable, overall. If Nintendo remakes Twilight Princess for Wii U, they would be wise to include a motionless control scheme as an option, although it would also be interesting to see them retrofit Wii Motion Plus into such a remake. (Then again, I doubt I'll be buying a remake if one is made thanks to this RetroActive.)
I know they have a setting to let you tell the game how large your sensor bar is in relation to your TV and honestly, it helps a bit.

There is actually a setting to turn off the pointer control,  curiously enough.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 05:06:01 PM by TheYoungerPlumber »
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Offline pokepal148

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Oh doggone it, I was afraid I'd mess up the quote thing, does someone want to fix that for me? I'd appreciate it.

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4) I always recalled Twilight Princess as being kind of an ugly game with muted colors and bad character designs.
I really don't think that they should have attempted that Art Style on the gamecube because the gamecube simply could not handle it consistently. Link's Character model looks really nice, Midna's Helmet (when seen in Links wolf form) is surprisingly detailed as well and alot of the other character models are well done as well but then you look at alot of the ground textures and well...


Seriously, Xenoblade has better looking ground textures then that.

Now that screenshot is part of a comparison with a texture pack that basically cleaned up the ground and well...



That's better.
Quote
While I think there's some truth to that, I've actually been impressed with the art style and presentation so far. The colors ARE muted, but it sets a nice ambience that goes well with the Twilight Realm and gives an overall sense of a tattered, used, and depressed world just barely getting by. And while I'm still not a fan of many of the character designs in the first town, there are some impressive facial animations that really portray emotions. There's a great moment where both Link and the mayor are being scolded by Illia, and the two guys shrink away a little, wince, and look at each other with mutual understanding. Midna similarly has some really well animated sequences when she's playing mind games with Link in wolf form.
It goes further, I mentioned before talking to everyone in the village when you find out the children are safe and there's a reason for that: You are essentially telling all of their parents individually that their kids are safe and the game does an exceptional job of portraying that.
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Offline pokepal148

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Twilight Princess had a long development process and it also has alot of Cut Content. This leads to one of the more interesting things about the game: The possibly re-purposed content.

For example, when you find a howling stone you howl at it and have to do a basic 3 note song in a certain rhythm. This is done using the joystick, much like The Wind Waker was and is presented in a similar way to the Ocarina from MM/OOT. Now Twilight Princess does not have a traditional 3d Zelda musical instrument like the others so maybe that system was originally meant to be used with an instrument.

You also have the grass which you use to do stuff like summon a bird, and using that grass while in wolf form requires you to do the joystick thing. Perhaps the howling and whatever instrument were meant to be able to preform a similar purpose.

And I don't know about you but this thing seems like this should be able to play more then one song.



My theory is that you were meant to have the horse call from the start and that it was removed for whatever reason so they added the grass in instead. Later on you get the horse call item which if I recall correctly, Illia specifically states she was going to give to you before you set off on your delivery,  also known as the beginning of the game.

There's also the hidden village, which raises a few questions from me, such as whether or not it was supposed to be a full on village and if so, where it would have been on the map (assuming it wasn't just an early version of Kakariko that they decided to reuse.)
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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The motion controls continue to frustrate me. The shield thrust move barely ever works, and even the basic swordplay can be wonky at times. It's a shame, because otherwise I'm having a fantastic time. It may be my secret favorite Zelda game! The boss battles in particular have been satisfying, with excellent musical themes and a grand scale that at times reminds me of Shadow of the Colossus.

While I'd rather Nintendo finish its new Zelda game, I can see an argument for an HD remake of Twilight Princess, possibly even with Wii Motion Plus.
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Offline ClexYoshi

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I am seriously having trouble motivating myself enough to walk over to my closet and dig out my disc for Twilight Princess. I rmemeber I tried to revisit this one about 4 or 5 years ago while a friend of mine was in town. I think I got to the lakebed temple and encountered a game breaking bug.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf4Pa0XkEik

note I couldn't get him to go into an idle animation long enough to de-equip the iron boots or remove them.

Anyhow, these days I actually have a capture card and such, and I told another friend about my lack of motivation to play through the ordon village portion of this game for a third time, and so I'm going to maybe stream it after I get off work tomorrow. would anybody else be interested in some live reactions to the game if I played it in a series of streams?

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Where is the Zelda love? I'm having a blast! Twilight Princess tries some risky things with some of its dungeons, and it doesn't always work, but it's still a good time. I just finished the very different Temple of Time, which has some very clever puzzles which are a little tedious in execution.
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Offline ejamer

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Where is the Zelda love? ...


The Zelda love is coming, just very slowly.


The opening of the game has seemed very drawn out - I've played for a couple of hours and am just about to start the Forest Temple now. I don't want to dive into this thread too quickly for fear of spoilers (first time playing Twilight Princess!) and am hoping that the game picks up speed soon so that I'll have something worth adding to the discussion.


Early impressions from playing the Wii release:
* Waggle controls aren't great - in fact, they are so annoying that I actively wish I had purchased the GameCube version instead; however, I like pointer controls for my slingshot and imagine that other weapons (bow, hookshot, etc) could make great use of the pointer also.
* The darker tone isn't drawing me in; it's not really fair to comment so early, but the colorless world just feels less... adventurous? Wind Waker always left me excited to see what was around the next corner because the world felt lush and vibrant, but in Twilight Princess I'm kind of blase about exploring the world. (Granted, everything has been linear so far with no exploration needed.)




So rumors have been floating around about a 3DS remake for this game. How do people feel about that possibility?  Would you re-buy this game to own a portable version?  In line with my anti-waggle comment above, the switch to button-based controls alone might be enough to convince me... although it would be a hard sell if the 3DS game comes out just after I've finished the console version.
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Offline ClexYoshi

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I... I don't know, Ejamer. I can't bring myself to play it now. I can't imagine what in the heck it would take for me to dump $40 to play it again.

Legend of Zelda games are... kinda like Journey to me where they're more of an experience than anything else. I can count the number of Legend of Zelda games that I have successfully beaten multiple times on one hand... that'd be A Link to the Past, Link's awakening, Zelda 2: The adventures of Link, aaaaaaand maybe Zelda 1? I can't remember if I've done it more than once.

I burnt out on Ocarina of time 3D, didn't bother picking up Majora's Mask or Wind Waker HD (Especially since I somehow ended up with multiple copies of Wind Waker and I don't even know how. I haven't even beaten that game once!)

I really do not get the metal block I have with these games. I want to do Retroactive, and I probably would have dived in all Gung-ho had we gotten Super Mario Sunshine!

I remember Twilight Princess being a lot of busywork. Collect 20 tears of light before you can really even do anything besides have shortstack waifu berate you. Herd Goats, find a bunch of little bugs flying around, find chicken nugget's children in the dungeons, do the Cucco SKydiving game multiple times into lake hylia because it just doesn't control great. sit directly in front of the TV so you can use the pointer! sumo wrestle with gorons!

The first time through you're wrapped up in the wonder and discovery of it all. things like the sidequesting and the tears of light and all that jazz are meant to build up tension before you finally make it into that dungeon and learn what new toy you get to fiddle with, and I think it's a crest that only gives me enough of a high the one time.

That's not to say TP isn't good or amazing! The Ball and Chain sticks out as one of my favorite things they've ever put into a Zelda game in the history of ever! Shortstack Waifu is indeed a waifu for the ages. She's got the whole appeal to edgelords, who probably were salavating all over this game until they realized how much of a goofball Zant is. Speaking of which, Zant is an incredibly fun villan, and I suppose Hyrule Warriors really helped to amplify this! I also love that this game brought back my true love, the mystical bomb-arrow.

I really need to tell my friends to motivate me to play this game. I want to play the game from beginning to end so I can give you folks a clearer vision than foggy hindsight.

I ain't collecting bugs though. seriously, Agatha creeps me the hell out in the same way that treasure trolls do.

Offline TK Thunder

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This is the 4th time I've taken on Twilight Princess.  Having only beaten it one time about 7 years ago, I figure it's time to make my way all the way through it again.  I'm about 12 hours in, just about ready to take on the 3rd temple in the game.  So far, I found that the games positive aspects are so much better than the negatives, however obvious they may be.  The pointer controls and pace of the game are probably the biggest negatives I can post about.

One of the things I haven't seen much of so far is the music.  So far, most of it hasn't really captured my attention all that well.  But there are two areas that are very noticeable to me.  First off, the music during boss battles.  I really enjoy how intense the music gets when a boss gets knocked down for a little while.  The second area of music that sticks out to me is the theme in Hyrule Field.  I probably never felt this way until getting the Zelda 25th Anniversary CD that came with the release of Skyward Sword.  That song is so much fun to listen to.  Now, after getting back into this game again, I appreciate the Hyrule Field theme song.  The only other thing I'll include about the music in TP, is how emotional it can get at times, really bringing out the feelings of certain characters...especially Colin.

Does anybody else have anything to include about the music of TP?

Offline ClexYoshi

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Does anybody else have anything to include about the music of TP?

it sounds really good coming out of Smooth McGroove's mouth.

(Minor Midgame Spoilers)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_JPIK6pUC4

Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Twilight Princess has awesome music. Lots of great boss battle themes (new and reprised), a solid overworld theme, and some good timing  and tone-setting in cutscenes. I don't know if it is better than Wind Waker but it sure as heck puts Skyward Sword to shame. I really hope the new Zelda Wii U game takes its musical cues from a combination of this game and A Link Between Worlds.
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So after three consecutive hours of play, I've reached the end of the Forest Temple. This experience is giving me a new appreciation for the game, as well as making me appreciate other parts of the game less than ever.


While I've always defended the slower intro to this game, it's becoming very difficult to justify it now. When I last played Twilight Princess, I was fourteen years old, and now at twenty-two I feel like my time is being disrespected as the game asks me to herd goats twice, direct a falcon twice, and catch fish for a cat twice. None of these actions are relevant for the entire rest of the game after this tutorial is over, although it is cute how an NPC uses the falcon against you later after you basically teach it to him.


There would be nothing wrong with using this time to introduce us to concepts if these concepts were actually used at all for the rest of the game. It reminds me of the boss fights in Deus Ex: Human Revolution; it's completely incongruous with the rest of the game, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the whole beginning section was outsourced to another team entirely.


Despite the terrible start, the game picks up quickly when we reach the first temple. I truly do not remember the rest of the game's temples, but if they only get better from here on out, then this has the makings to be the Zelda game with the best dungeons by far. Twilight Princess can be most directly compared with Ocarina of Time due to a similar world and structure, and the Forest Temple is already significantly more fun than Inside the Great Deku Tree, which is kind of a straight line in comparison.


In the meantime, the Forest Temple is nonlinear. While there is a strict progression clearly planned by the developer, it's not immediately obvious which way you're supposed to go, giving the entire dungeon the feeling of a big puzzle that needs to be solved. Rooms need to be revisited a couple times with new items or perspectives, and the backtracking is quick enough and sparse enough that it never feels egregious.


I've only just begun the game, and I have a feeling that it's going to be much better than I remember.

Offline Evan_B

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I am a big fan of Twilight Princess- I recognize it's flaws, but as mentioned previously its sparse world does have a lot of interconnected elements- it feels more like a kingdom uniting or being brought together. I enjoy it's atmosphere, it's music (hylianesche steppe is one of my favorite Overworld themes in the series), and I like the story and characters a lot.

I played the GameCube version (aka the right one- or I guess I should say left), and I felt the control scheme was really nice. The inventory system felt a whole lot better than Wind Waker or pretty much any game prior. I never really realized how convenient it was until I went back to the older titles again. However, I disagree with the notion that this game encourages one to go off the beaten path, because there sure as hell is a lot of empty space in this game.

I'll be back to discuss more of this game when I have time. It is one of my favorite Zelda titles, despite being a mediocre installment in the series.
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Click the image to join in. I'll try to go for about 6 hours, with maybe an intermission for dinner. I'll make a follow-up post on actual thoughts.

Offline ClexYoshi

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so, it seems that since this is in the podcast discussion forum, I can't edit posts. regardless, I put about 2:15 give or take fuss with trying to get my capture card to behave. I'm about up to going to get the tears of light for Faron woods.

The thing about this game is not just the padding, but the laborious nature of the padding. I -KNOW- there's 50 rupees in Link's basement that I could use to bypass money farming for the slingshot, but I am immediatley denied. I know I have to catch a fish for the cat to get it to go back to the item store, but it won't actually do so unless I talk to the shop keeper first. I know I have to get the basket using the hawk, but again... the basket doesn't spawn unless I talk to people and do cutscene stuff. Even when you have read dialogue and want to hit A to get to the next bit, you have to wait for NPCs to do their silent gestures and hand waving motions at you before you can move the conversation on...!

While say... environments themselves have not aged well, I do have to say that the character models are all right, and the particle effects off of various things look good, like the floating twilight squares or the glowies coming off of Ordonia's light ball. the animations are also pretty good, besides mabye a couple of things looking a lil' awkward on Epona.

At any rate, I'll do another session with an update on another day... maybe one where my capture card doesn't want to be a giant dick and I can actually get an audience so I don't feel so wound up about not spending enough time with people.