Author Topic: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.  (Read 17657 times)

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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2015, 08:31:19 PM »
That kind of thinking essentially sums up why Nintendo is in the bind its in. Part of Nintendo's idea of a desperate, last-gasp attempt at gaining traction was to show an extremely early build of a game it knows it can't deliver when it says its going to deliver it. Only a company that has lost touch with reality would think that's even an option. Take Zelda out E3 2014 and Nintendo still has the best overall showing.

Nintendo wanted to sell Wii Us. They wanted to paint a picture of how great the Wii U's library was going to be so people would be willing to go out and buy one right then. It wasn't about when Zelda would be coming out, it was about getting people excited for the game and showing how ambitious it was. This wasn't an unusual strategy as far as the gaming industry goes.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2015, 09:39:12 PM »
Zelda isn't a difference maker to people who aren't impressed by the rest of what Nintendo offers. That said, the people you speak of who care about Zelda and follow E3 are fence-sitting Nintendo fans. At that point, Nintendo was still trying to sell that specific group on Wii U, and its best pitch was, "Buy a Wii U now so you can play Zelda in a year and a half at the earliest... but since you know how we do things, the wait will most likely be much longer." Regardless of whether that strategy is common, it still isn't a good one. That kind of thinking is terribly shortsighted. Focus on what Wii U does well and the games that have a very strong possibility of releasing on time. Outside of Zelda, that was pretty much what Nintendo did at E3 2014.

Showing Zelda last year did Nintendo no real favors. That isn't even in hindsight. Yeah, it looked oh-my-god, but it was a ticking delay-bomb. Now, let's assume NX is a new home console. Imagine a full reveal of a nearly finished open-world Zelda at E3 2016. You want to talk about getting people excited? That would have carried NX hype right up to launch. A September/October Nintendo Direct would only sweeten the deal. Had Nintendo focused on Wii U's strengths, not its potential, it would be in a much stronger position moving forward.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2015, 09:45:53 PM »
Their best pitch was to show a whole bunch of things. Zelda was the topper. The system already had a very good lineup at that point, but people were holding off because of worries about its future. Nintendo's goal was to portray that future in the best light possible, which means showing one of their most marketable franchises on it.

And even if they do end up pushing it to NX, I really don't think this does anything to hurt that. A new Zelda at a console launch would be exciting whether or not it had been seen before. The only downside is a short term one, right now, which they minimized to a pretty good degree by how they revealed it.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2015, 10:06:11 PM »
No, the issue isn't whether or not Zelda had been seen before. The issue is delaying it. That perpetuates the notion that Nintendo can't deliver games in a timely manner and can't adequately support two platforms. Even if that's true, don't remind people of it. Waiting until the game is almost complete shatters those expectations and inspires confidence in Nintendo's brand. Rebuilding its brand should be of utmost importance. This was a completely avoidable problem.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2015, 10:12:45 PM »
This was a completely avoidable problem.

I don't know that it is a completely avoidable problem. I think this is how Miyamoto works. Seeing a game almost fully formed must get his juices pumping and he gets inspired to add or change things on people's projects.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2015, 10:37:33 PM »
Again, it is not the delay that is annoying, it is owning a conse that has virtually no support outside of indie timed exclusives and Nintendo itself. The Wii was at least a slightly better situation because it had a shitload of shovel ware but also some decent third party titles, and people wanted to develop for something everyone owned. But Nintendo feels so half-assed towards its own system it's not even funny. "Empty promises" is what they should have called the Wii U. Games have been announced TWO YEARS before even having a solid release date, Nintendk has relied on quick shots of builds to keep the hype alive, and yet.. What have they done for the console? Iwata keeps talking about "THAT" game which will reinvigorate sales and give people a reason to buy the system- but they still haven't made it. Hell, I would HOPE any console developer would have enough forward thinking to say "Hm. We need to create a game that really shows what this system can do" at the BEGINNING of the console's life.

Maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself. Zelda not being 2015 is again, passable because we all want it to be decent- but that still means one less game for 2015, and it's a major one, at that. Possibly the biggest game we would have all year. So if Nintendo still thinks it's okay to show off games two or three years before they release- whatever. Fine with me. They've lost a customer until they actually deliver on their grandiose ideas.
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Offline Phil

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2015, 11:34:34 PM »
Really shows how fortunate we are when we're complaining about a game announced two years before a solid release date. Have you met the Nintendo of old? Were you around for Zelda 64? Does Rare ring any bells?

Heck, the two years before a solid release date thing is common on every other platform and many publishers, so why is it only not okay when Nintendo does it? They've recently been announcing games within the same year they release or a little ways off.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2015, 11:57:40 PM »
They've recently been announcing games within the same year they release or a little ways off.
I'm strongly in favor of this model. I don't really want to hear about a game two years before release. I guess it's nice to see a game is in development. Then again, we always know Nintendo is working on new Zelda games.

Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2015, 12:09:06 AM »
I think I might be more of a Zelda fan than I am a gamer and this delay further confirms my suspicions. All the other games I buy, while I do enjoy them, I'm thinking about the overall gaming state of my house. Can I play in front of the little ones? Will my teenage boys be able to play unsupervised? Will the wife enjoy watching me play? Zelda is the only game I by strictly for me and thats why this delay is such a bummer.




I'm old enough to remember the N64 delays and just how painful it was when Ocarina and Wind Waker were delayed. Didn't bother me much when Twilight pushed back to ad Forward Compatibility with "Revolution" as I saw that coming a mile away. Skyward Sword came out during the 25th Anniversary so there was plenty Zelda to be had. And with MM3D just released maybe Nintendo feels like they have enough fresh Zelda memories to hold over the folks like me? Maybe that Netflix project gets fast tracked to take the place of Zelda this Holiday? Maybe Zelda WiiU/NX is the next Greatest Game of all Time?


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Offline lolmonade

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2015, 12:24:42 AM »
While disappointing, this news doesn't affect me personally that much.  I own a Wii U, PS4, PS3, Vita, and 3DS.  Between all those platforms, I have plenty of games to keep me entertained. 


For Nintendo's sake, I hope they have some pretty compelling software lined-up to fill the gap.  Zelda is a tentpole franchise for Nintendo, and I don't care what else is lined up for this year, the delay makes a crater-sized hole in their release schedule on a system that already has a relatively low count of games being released throughout the year.


I can't imagine this Zelda game being moved-out to an NX launch title.  I can't think of a single Nintendo console that didn't have its own Zelda game.  [size=78%]I'm curious to see what they do, if anything.  Do they finally announce a price cut this year to try and entice buyers this fall?  I assume we'll see some surprise announcements for the fall release as well.[/size]
[/size]
[/size]I don't necessarily see Zelda as a "system seller" in this case.  Most Nintendo Devotees I assume already bought it, the mass appeal games (Mario, Smash Bros, Mariokart) have released.  Anyone who doesn't see a good stable of Nintendo games worthy of buying the Wii U at this point either doesn't like most Nintendo Franchises or probably has more an issue with the console itself/3rd party support issues than the Nintendo games themselves.[size=78%]
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2015, 12:34:34 AM »
There's something troubling I just realized about the DeNA deal: we haven't seen any indication that Nintendo's expanding their operations to support the mobile market. Instead, they've seemed to indicate they have existing internal teams developing those mobile games. As I've previously noted, Nintendo's proven they can't support 2 devices at once anymore, leading to this see-saw pattern of releases where one device will go dry for a while as the other suddenly gets fresh support. The Zelda delays hurts because Nintendo's Wii U software support is stretched thin as it is.

Taking that into account, this Fall Nintendo's going to start supporting a THIRD device with mobile, and by next year they'll also be developing titles for a FOURTH with NX.  Does anyone else have a really bad feeling about the sheer strain on Nintendo's already thin development houses?
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2015, 12:45:01 AM »
Nintendo opened a new office in Kyoto a year ago.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2015, 12:55:53 AM »
Nintendo opened a new office in Kyoto a year ago.

I was under the impression, though, that that was just bringing their existing console & handheld teams together under one building because they used to be separated.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2015, 12:57:39 AM »
And left the space they previously used unoccupied?

Offline broodwars

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2015, 01:00:38 AM »
And left the space they previously used unoccupied?

We've been told very little about. Besides, as we've seen from their current Wii U & 3DS support, it doesn't seem to have made a hell of a lot of difference.  If you're implying that they're using that old space for a new mobile division, that would mean they'd have to have planned & segregated development teams to mobile a year before officially signing with DeNA...which sounds kind of insane. They also probably would've had to notate that in their investor reports, so we'd have heard of it by now. You certainly could be right, though.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 01:10:03 AM by broodwars »
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #65 on: March 29, 2015, 01:14:17 AM »
To answer your question, no, I don't have a bad feeling about the strain on Nintendo's development houses when we know little about them. And I'd give Nintendo a little more time before deciding if it's made a difference.

EDIT: Not specifically a mobile division, just hired more people for new teams. It seems ridiculous to me that Nintendo would just leave a bunch of rooms empty after constructing a new building. I'd imagine it's doing something with that space.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 01:18:42 AM by Adrock »

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #66 on: March 29, 2015, 01:38:41 AM »
Serious Question: Has Nintendo historically made public announcements about the formation of new internal teams? If they expanded, would we necessarily know about it right away? In the west you could try to track individual people through LinkedIn or whatever, but I don't know if that (or something similar) exists in Japan.

At what point did we know Nintendo made a new studio in Tokyo? Before they announced Jungle Beat?
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2015, 03:35:00 AM »
Usually they have their restructuring of teams listed in their quarterly reports but it's pretty dry reading.  What Nintendo's main problem is most of the "people" in charge are all old farts who maintain old ideas.  What they really need is fresh blood in the project leaders--hey I want VOICE CHAT IN MY GAMES, just because they didn't have that option in the 90's doesn't mean you should exclude that NOW--Splatoon I'm looking at you.

Or no Online MP options like Mario Party 10-- :(

 


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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2015, 04:01:46 AM »
I really don't get why people want Mario Party to be online. Splatoon not having voice chat I understand, it's a glaring omission in that type of game, but Mario Party seems like something that would be tremendously un-fun that way, even with full communication.
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2015, 06:10:55 AM »
"I really don't get why people want Mario Party to be online"

I'm an adult, mid 30's and don't have kids and the few gaming friends I do have only play two types of games--COD type or sports. 

Back in the 90's, I was younger in high-school/college so getting parties together wasn't that hard to do then but nowadays I work swing-swifts so I never know when I'm available and most of my older friends have busy schedules as well with their own families so local play for me is pretty much out of the question.

 



Offline broodwars

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2015, 10:47:28 AM »
Well, with all this Mario Party talk, this seems to be as good a place to post this as any. :P

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2015, 12:08:51 PM »
I feel the same about Mario Party 10, I am alone now in my 30's and have no one to play with. If it had been online I would buy it but I refuse to play those games single player that is not fun at all.


Here is a thought about that empty building Adrock brought up, what if they are holding onto it so they can lease it to someone else as office space or you know sell it when they get desperate? Nintendo is a very conservative company I can seem them sitting on it for a long time if its more cost productive to do so.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2015, 12:56:48 PM »
What Nintendo's main problem is most of the "people" in charge are all old farts who maintain old ideas.  What they really need is fresh blood in the project leaders--hey I want VOICE CHAT IN MY GAMES, just because they didn't have that option in the 90's doesn't mean you should exclude that NOW--Splatoon I'm looking at you.
Funny that you should mention Splatoon in the same sentence as Nintendo needing fresh blood since that's exactly who is in charge of the game.
Here is a thought about that empty building Adrock brought up, what if they are holding onto it so they can lease it to someone else as office space or you know sell it when they get desperate? Nintendo is a very conservative company I can seem them sitting on it for a long time if its more cost productive to do so.
Nah, dude, there isn't an empty building. There are now three Nintendo offices in Kyoto now, but the main ones being discussed here are the central office/headquarters and the new one Nintendo opened last June. The new building which is about the same size as headquarters presumably houses the merged console and handheld division (and probably the Quality of Life stuff) so all the hardware and system software research and development personnel were moved to that building. That left entire empty floors in the central office. I don't think it would rent out that space. My guess is that Nintendo either has filled or will fill those with more EAD teams. According to Wikipedia, Nintendo also has an office on Osaka, Japan which I didn't even know it had until today. Subsequent googling yielded no further information either. Wikipedia doesn't specifically list who is or will be housed there, only mentioning an incredibly vague and unsourced "May soon house R&D."

My point is that Nintendo is expanding. Perhaps not as quickly as it should. I really can't imagine Nintendo moving all that personnel then doing nothing with the recently vacated space.

Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2015, 06:39:17 PM »
? Splatoon has a  senior producer, Hisashi Nogami, and he's been with Nintendo over 20 years so that's not exactly young blood.  It was his choice to canned VC, not the directors.  Hense my point. 

 

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Re: Zelda U delayed to 2016. Won't be at E3 either.
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2015, 07:18:00 PM »
the only thing that could save this winter is if Nintendo has a good Metroid game to take its place that we didnt know about and is ready to release, i thought that was the case a rew years ago but it turned out to be a donkey kong country game. Sure its highly rated, but I don't think Nintendo makes the best 2D platformers anymore. My opinion: Leave the 2D platformers to indy devs. Actually if Nintendo licensed out its stuff to indy devs then that would work out the same way as the retro situation. If I were Nintendo and I had a huge workload I would put some it on 3rd parties. That would improve relations and guarantee good games get made. In the N64 era Nintendo was right about thier quality control concerns, now most 3rd party games are better.
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