Author Topic: Was Superman II always a bad movie?  (Read 5758 times)

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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« on: January 18, 2015, 02:54:10 PM »
So I just watched it on ION (positively entertaining) and I never remember it being so campy and just bad. The SFX was bad even for the time, I mean this came out after Star Wars and that still looks pretty ok considering. Have I been sleeping this whole time or was this obvious? I tend to miss obvious things.


Example:
( I never knew the picture on the box of pasta reflected the type of pasta in the box).

I didn't wanna derail the main movie thread with this nonsense.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 03:36:40 PM »
There has never been a good Superman movie, so yes.
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Offline ObbyDent

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 03:42:14 PM »
Coming from someone who didn't grow up with the movie, yes. Like nickmitch says, I've never enjoyed a Superman movie.

Offline shingi_70

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 04:21:30 PM »
Well there's superman I, II, and Man of steel so I count three good superman movies. For the original to you have to sort of look back at the time period they were made and what they were going for.  The plots are simple but its refreshing to go back and watch them after seeing how Cynical modern day heroes are.

Plus I think your millage depends on how much you like Superman as a character. 
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2015, 04:34:25 PM »
Now my world is upside down. Not only did I like Superman Returns, I liked it more than Man of Steel. However those we're always measured against Superman II. So now I'm like if Superman II is bad, maybe Man Of Steel isn't so boring. If Man of Steel isn't boring, maybe Superman Returns is as bad as most people tend to think. And since none of these movies are ON Demand, or Netflix, I'm on my way to the Redbox.




(This will be an interesting night)




Just found Superman Returns in the kitchen I'll start with that.

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2015, 05:22:54 PM »
Man of Steel sucked.

A truly great movie makes you like it more every time you think about it or watch it again.  Man of Steel does the opposite for me.  Every time I think of that movie, I think of yet another terrible thing about it.  Whether it's a plot hole, lack of character, or just something stupid the movie does.

And I truly enjoy Superman as a character, just not as a movie character.  Because, again, there hasn't been a good one.
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2015, 05:32:09 PM »
Superman II had that awesome cellophane S superpower.

That makes it the best movie ever in the history of movies.  Just when you're all like "Damn, Supes is screwed!  What's he gonna do?!?"  *bamn* - He throws a cellophane S at the bad guy.  You weren't expecting that, were you?
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2015, 05:42:49 PM »
TVman is dead. I killed him and took his posts.

Offline UncleBob

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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2015, 06:27:48 PM »
How does SaranWrap work? You should have seen my face this afternoon when he threw the magic plastic. WTF?

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Offline shingi_70

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2015, 11:52:14 PM »
I'm typically easy to please I guess. Superman is my favorite superhero and while MOS isn't perfect and does a lot wrong I enjoyed it. I just hope the sequel is more fun and uplifting.
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Offline Khushrenada

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 12:45:33 AM »
I was lukewarm about Man of Steel when I first saw it. There were things to like about it and things to dislike about it. The special effects were top notch. They definitely put good money into them.

My Superman foundation would be a mix of Lois and Clark: The Adventures of Superman and Superman: The Animated Series. I actually re-watched nearly all the episodes of Lois and Clark like 2 years ago. I hadn't seen any in over a decade but a cable channel started playing them. It holds up ok actually. S:TAS still has some of the clearest, simplest and yet strongest characterizations of the Superman mythos and holds up real well also.

I never cared too much for the Christopher Reeve Superman movies aside from the John Williams score. By the time, I saw those movies, they were too corny and preposterous. Although Christopher Reeve really did make for a great Superman. A friend of mine who is a really big Superman fan lent me a copy of Superman 2: The Donner cut to watch saying it was better. I was curious about it so I checked it. This was sometime after Man of Steel came out. I hadn't seen the original Superman 2 in some years. I remembered some things about it but couldn't really say what was new or different about the Donner cut from when I first saw the other version. For the time when it came out and compared to the ending of the original Superman with time rotation based on the spinning of the Earth, I get why it is regarded as the better Superman movie. It definitely plays more to kids though which is another reason why I don't think it holds up well compared to modern animation movies which plays to both kids and adults much better.

Another factor working against Superman 2 is the fact that there has now been more stories about Zod or Krpytonians. Lois and Clark had a 4 part arc dealing with encountering some Kryptonians (though there was no Zod in this group). Superman: The Animated Series had generals Jax-Ur and Mala to fill the roles of Zod and Ursa. Later Smallville had Brainiac attempt to free Zod and a storyline around that in Season 5 to the start of 6. Even later on the show, all of Season 9 dealt with a clone of Zod and other Kryptonians and Clark's struggles with them and their allegiance to Zod. All in all, Season 9 ended up being probably one of the top 3 seasons of Smallville too. That was one of the better storylines on the show. In comics, Zod's popped up a few times. Richard Donner did a 5 part story with Zod. Later, there was the New Krypton storyline that went on for sometime in the Superman series of comics.

What this means is that there have now been a lot of different stories and interpretations done about Superman encountering Kryptonians or Zod. Each time, there's tweaks and twists from what came before to do and try something new with the material. Thus, looking back on Superman 2, there are still some things that are ok about it but I just think there's a lot better material out there now which lessens its appeal and impact. In some respects, that's also a problem with Man of Steel. There are good ideas and a better standard or characterization of Zod or encountering other Kryptonians that exist and are accessible for fans to compare to the movie. Unfortunately, it tried to do some different stuff along with some expected stuff (the "fanservice") but ultimately it just doesn't compare as well with what has come before.

In the end, I just wanted to note that I actually ended up re-watching Man of Steel for the first time since I saw it in Theatres about 2 months ago. Watching it, I did appreciate more some of the criticisms that people made of Snyder's direction like the shake the camera and then zoom in on something shots. I can't say I noticed it that much in the theatre the first time but watching it again at home, I definitely did. Yet, I also found myself more forgiving of the movie. And by the end, I thought I might have judged it too harshly. Maybe I've just made peace with its flaws or just accepted it for what it is but there's still some fun to be had and the movie is still quite entertaining. We're not talking Batman Forever or Batman and Robin levels of bad. Superman Returns made the mistake of trying to keep the series in the Christopher Reeve direction which makes it very hard for me to re-watch. I've tried sometimes but I just give up after awhile. Yeah, maybe it isn't at The Dark Knight or Guardians of the Galaxy level but somewhere in between all that. It's not a movie I'm going to want to see a lot of but at least it's one I'd be willing to rewatch and probably still enjoy again another time which, to me, is a success because a lot of movies I've seen don't even get to that point.
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 09:26:47 AM »
Well said Khush.




So after watching Superman Returns a bit, I realize that Man Of Steel could have been better for me if...they used the John Williams theme. What does that say about me? I'm not a huge Superman fan to begin with (although I really enjoyed the 2 Earth One books.)


more questions than answers
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 09:31:02 AM by Nile Boogie Returns »

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Was Superman II always a bad movie?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2015, 10:32:02 AM »
What? Kneel before Zod!