Author Topic: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015  (Read 21169 times)

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Offline Enner

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2015, 02:03:36 AM »
The characters can emote. The cut scenes in the trial portion have displayed that. It's just that the flat affect that a lot of Japanese horror stuff does makes emotion really subtle. Doesn't help that the one character that could be the least sullen has been seemingly offed. But the in-game character stuff are quite stiff. Outside of big budget games, Japan has never been good with its characters emoting.

I've played through the free-to-start trial in a little over two hours. This is the Prologue, Drop 1 (the tutorial), and Drop 2 up to Fuyuha fight. While I enjoyed my time, I can already see where the disappointed reviews are coming from. The characters move heavily and can not turn around in place quickly (actually I don't think they can turn around in place at all). I had Mui and Yuri getting caught in all sorts of things and angles.

Then there's the combat where the game becomes a first-person shooter. The gyro controls are the gyro controls; either you are acclimated to them or not. I was fond of flicking the GamePad up and down in Splatoon and that has translated to Fatal Frame's two axes. However, Maiden of Black Water requires the manipulation of a third axis for portrait or Dutch angle shots. While it is an interesting game mechanic, it creates confusion with the controls in both shooting mode control schemes. Lastly, those using the gyro controls should be mindful of how they manipulate the Y-axis of the left stick. When you settle you GamePad after a hectic aiming moment, you may find your camera pointed at the sky or the ground.

Thinking on it, I'm not sure if I want a survival horror game that hasn't evolved much from Resident Evil 4.

Offline Evan_B

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2015, 09:21:51 AM »
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought some of the appeal of horror titles like Silent Hill, Resident Evil, and such were the chunky controls. Even Revelations, which is quite late in the series and more action based than he originals has a good amount of trudging and wonky aiming.

I'll have to play the demo myself today to get a feel for it. I'm looking forward to it.
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Offline Enner

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2015, 11:38:20 AM »
I tolerated the movement and aiming scheme of Resident Evil 4 (GCN) at the time I was playing it. I don't want to go back to that style. Granted, I'm not a survival horror or a horror game guy in general. Looking at the big horror darlings of this year (SOMA, Until Dawn) and past (Alien: Isolation), all have characters that control roughly the way you would want judging from video footage.

The first time you try to do an about face in Fatal Frame (quickest is to pull back on the left stick and press ZL to reorient the camera) it will not feel good at all. These days, I don't think even horror games can get away with character control that feels cumbersome and unwieldy. If you are going to scare a player now it is not through clumsy character movement that makes the player character seem dumb.

Then again, maybe more horror game fans want that sort of wrestling with character movement then I think.

Offline sudoshuff

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2015, 12:36:42 PM »
I just finished the demo and the controls suck.  I totally agree with Enner....not interested in fighting the stiff character movements.  In fact, everything seems slow about the game...movement, cutscenes, even opening doors takes about 7 seconds. I know this is supposed to add to the suspense, but I feel like there is a better way to create suspense than by slowing EVERYTHING. 


The camera obscura has so much potential on the gamepad, but I could not get used to having to look down, then up, then down again. 


I know a lot of survival horror has been linear/on rails, but I just can't get used to being constrained to a dirt path through a forest in a beautifully rendered 3D environment.  I don't want it completely open, but just let me explore on my own.  This game goes from cutscene to flashing arrow to "x" marks the spot to shiny object on the ground.  Why do I even have control of the character at all?  I can't choose to do anything other than follow the one path through the game.  Trying to veer off in the forest brings up a dialogue box saying, "Oh, I don't think she went that way" in reference to the person you're trying to follow.


I'll leave the demo on my system, but highly doubt I will be purchasing this.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2015, 12:48:42 PM »
I've never agreed with the notion that shitty controls are a prerequisite for "scary" games. I remember when Shinji Mikami was defending RE5's tank controls with "well, it's not scary if you can shoot while backing up". Then Dead Space and Dead Space 2 released, which had the ability to shoot while walking backwards and yet were 10x creepier/scary than RE5 despite also being very action-heavy. Fear should come from the scenario & the atmosphere, not the controls.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2015, 01:10:09 AM »
Well, I've finished the main campaign and...man, I have so many questions about this game's story. The core "threat" is alright, but all the extraneous details around it just feels thrown together and don't really make sense. I got the "good" endings for all 3 characters and it doesn't really feel like anything was resolved in a satisfactory or logical manner. Also, the hit detection on the "touch" ability has been spotty the entire game, but it was really off when I was fighting the final boss. I had to waste so much film on her simply because the game just refused to register that I was next to her so I could deliver the final blow with the Fatal Glance.

Overall, my previous experience with the series was Fatal Frame 2, and this game feels like a real step down from that. It's not bad, but it's certainly not "great", either. The entire game feels like ideas and features were just thrown at the wall, and whatever stuck made it into the game. Add in the ridiculous amount of needless backtracking and re-used areas, and the game's just tedious.
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Offline Enner

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2015, 04:01:12 AM »
Hmm, echoing much of the criticism levied at the game.

While Koei Tecmo's teams aren't the greatest of developers, I had hoped better for Fatal Frame 5.

Offline Triforce Hermit

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2015, 08:06:23 AM »
Aside from the hit detection....that sounds like typical Fatal Frame narrative in my opinion.
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Offline Soren

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2015, 08:08:00 AM »
I played the fourth drop last week and haven't gone back into the game. It took me over an hour to get through it and the backtracking is tedious. There were at least 3 times when I finished a battle that I thought should have been the end of the chapter, only to have to do something ridiculous like escort a character all the way back to the start of the level. If that's the rest of the game I don't know if I'll have the patience for it.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2015, 08:15:47 AM »
I played the fourth drop last week and haven't gone back into the game. It took me over an hour to get through it and the backtracking is tedious. There were at least 3 times when I finished a battle that I thought should have been the end of the chapter, only to have to do something ridiculous like escort a character all the way back to the start of the level. If that's the rest of the game I don't know if I'll have the patience for it.

That is the rest of the game. ****, IIRC 2 of the "Drops" just have you repeating 2 of the previous Drops note for note as you're pursuing another character.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 08:35:06 AM by broodwars »
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Offline Evan_B

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2015, 08:23:19 AM »
Sudoshuff, I'm quite certain there are several additional ghost encounters and item drops if you explore the forest more thoroughly, which can add to your overall score.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2015, 08:23:53 AM »
If you're too close to a ghost when they're entering their "fading away" animation, the game doesn't trigger the "Touch" prompt. Problem is, the more powerful ghosts are only in that state for less than a second so you have to be near them before they start the animation to have any shot at getting a Fatal Glance. As I said, this became a real problem at the end of the game since the Final Boss can only be finished off with a Fatal Glance. If you miss it, the boss regenerates all of their health and the battle continues, so it's really annoying (and expensive) for that prompt to be so buggy.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 08:26:17 AM by broodwars »
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water | Coming to NA Fall 2015
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2015, 10:20:23 PM »
Well, finished the Ayane missions, all 4 of them (and you don't even DO anything in one of them). That was sure pointless. You spend the entire time sneaking around flashing ghosts (with your flashlight, sicko! :P ) so you can run past them through environments you've already done for about a half hour. I'm still at only 68% episode completion, so I imagine it's either counting Nightmare mode completion or getting all the endings.
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