Topic: Rare's ownership

[mouse_clicker]

I've got this argument going with a guy I know over what Rare owns of it's past franchises. He says that Rare does not own Conker and Perfect Dark, despite the fact that they developed the games, since Nintendo published them. I tried to explain Rare is indeed making a Conker AND Perfect Dark game for the XBox- he doesn't contest this, but says that when the games are actually released they can't legally be titled Conker's Bad Fur Day or Perfect Dark. I know he's wrong, but I need some sort of proof (credible as you guys are, I doubt he'll take the word of a bunch of message board junkies )- I even remember the slight controversy over who would get the rights to both games, as well as Banjo-Kazooie, and I clearly remember Rare getting the rights to all three. Can anyone offer some sort of proof that Rare does indeed have control over these franchises AND the rights to use the names?

[KDR_11k]

I'm not sure but sometimes publishers use contracts that force the devs to give up any rights they had to the franchise. But then Rare is experienced and Nintendo isn't US-based...

[mouse_clicker]

That's what I'm saying- I remember Nintendo was trying to take the rights to Conker and Perfect Dark away from Rare but Rare ended up getting them since they actually made the games, not Nintendo. I just need some sort of proof about that.

[AERO]

If microsoft purchased rare with out getting ANY names that people are firmiliar with a doubt they would have bought it in the first place. I can't offer any proof really but...

Definition of publish: To prepare and issue (printed material) for public distribution or sale.

This may be an anology some arn't firmiliar with but I'll use it anyway.

Dr. Pepper is an independent soft drink. The company that owns it doesn't bottle it however. In different areas pepsi, coke, and 7up bids for the contract to bottle it for them. Just becuase 7UP may bottle it in such and such an area in no way would give them ownership of doctor pepper.

So just becuase Nintendo "bottled" those games for Rare, doesn't mean they own it.

Does that help any?  

[mouse_clicker]

I understand what you mean, but that's a really good analogy I might tell him. Thanks.

[Termin8Anakin]

Haha. I can imagine you telling him:
"It's like Dr Pepper......this guy bottles it for em but doesn't mean he owns it."
Haha.
I heard that even though Silicon Knights made Legacy of Kain, the publisher (forgot who it was) actually got the license in the end, cause SK gave up on the court case since Nintendo were gonna buy them. In the end, even though they had some games in the pipeline, they practically still had to start from scratch.
The same could be said about Rare. Nintendo COULD have gotten Rare's franchises, since two of them tie up to the Kong family (COnker and Banjo in Diddy Kong Racing), but I guess that if Nintendo DID get them, what are they going to do? Lump them only their smaller development houses, that can only really put out one game every two years? I think the decision was good, in that each house would be able to do their own games. NSTC and Retro are doin some Nintendo franchises already. I don't think they need more.
Thing is, the Rare NOW depends on their franchises too much. You see their ONE original game for XBox, Grabbed by the Ghoulies? That's not being perceived as even a remotely anticipated game. Kameo was on the GC before XBox, so GbtG is their first TRUE Xbox-only game.
I feel like I've said this before.

But that said, I do miss Banjo the most.
However, the new DK Game should be interesting.

[DRJ]

I found some info on the net which should help.

Nintendo
Donkey Kong
Star Fox

Rareware
Banjo-Kazooie
Blast Corps
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Kameo
Killer Instinct
Perfect Dark
and several more


Source

Also there is an interview with rareware founders discussing this very issue here.

[mouse_clicker]

Thanks, DRJ- that was exactly what I was looking for. The first article alone is enough, but the interview is icing on the cake. Glad I finally have proof for this guy.

[Hostile Creation]

The only thing I'll miss is Killer Instinct.  That was a cool SNES game.

[PIAC]

that reminds me, i should go buy that from the pawn shop near me

SHPINAL! saying that is fun

[Termin8Anakin]

Haha.
Orchid!
ooooh, hot mama.

[ruby_onix]

Here's how I understand it, based on numerous searches of the US Patent Office website, and Nintendo's various press releases.

Rareware was a small company owned 100% by the Stamper Brothers.

Then they sold a chunk of their company to Nintendo (and more and more, until it eventually grew to 49%) and started making games for Nintendo, using Nintendo's money. Rare would seem to make whatever they wanted, but Nintendo would always "contract" them to do it.

Then Nintendo decided to give Rare even more leeway. They set up "Rare Inc." Basically a big pile of money, owned 100% by Nintendo. When Rare was exceptionally confident in a game, they could have the "Rare Inc." account publish the game, and keep the profits, leaving them with access to an even bigger pile of money.

Every licence Rareware worked on since Donkey Kong Country (except James Bond and Mickey Mouse) was "owned" (according to the US Patent Office) by either Nintendo or Rare Inc (which was owned 100% by Nintendo).

The Stampers were at a high point on the stock-market roller-coaster, and wanted to cash out completely, but Nintendo didn't want to invest even more money in Rare, so they agreed to get off too, and help sell the company to Microsoft.

Nintendo sold their 49% back to the Stamper Brothers on (a quarter-billion dollars worth of) credit. The Stampers sold the whole thing to Microsoft.

Rare Inc. was dissolved and absorbed back into Nintendo.

There were supposedly some statements from Nintendo when the news finally broke out, about Nintendo still owning games like Banjo and PD.

After the sale, Rareware somehow ended up with the rights to all the GameCube games it was working on at the time (like Kameo and the DKR "Mascot Racer"). And all the licences that people would expect Rare to be interested in (Conker, PD, Banjo). Nintendo appears to own all of the licences that Rare had previously said would only be "one shot" games (Blast Corps, Jet Force Gemini).

Whether a licence was owned by Rare Inc or Nintendo themselves does NOT appear to have been a factor. Games were taken and left behind from both Rare Inc and Nintendo.

It's assumable that Nintendo did own everything, but they had no use for most of it, and were apparently on extremely good personal terms with the Stamper Brothers, and wanted Rareware to succeed, so they sold (or maybe even gave) the Stamper Brothers their choice of licences.

One of the Stampers said that Nintendo was beyond good about the whole thing. And they're Microsoft employees now, so it wasn't any lame publicity BS.

[Termin8Anakin]

WOW! Really?
Does that mean that we might get a second Jet Force Gemini game?
Oh wow!
It might not be true, but then how cool would it be to have part of Rare with us that wasn't a Nintendo franchise before!
WOW!

[mouse_clicker]

That sounds about right, ruby, except one of the articles provided states that Blast Corps and Jet Force Gemini are Rare owned and could appear on the XBox if they wished.

[Termin8Anakin]

bupbow!

BUt Jet Force Gemini is so in our grasp!
MAN!