Topic: Shigeru Miyamoto asks the gaming public and media to give the Wii U some time

[Ceric]

360 is THE console only here in the States.  I'm fairly sure without having to go check the numbers that over all the PS3 is the stronger of the two because of Europe and Japan, neither really like the XBox brand.

I do think Sony is handling the PS4 much better then all the recent Hardware launches at this Stage.  We'll see if that changes the second half of the year. 

As for the Wii U... As I've said before even the video of the Improved load times are too slow because I can boot into Windows 8 from a cold start in the same amount of time.  The Friends system while better is really limited if you want to you know actually interact with your friends.  I wanted to play with Caterkiller on MonHun and he's in Local Mode;  We're Friends, I can see him online, but I have no good way to communicate to him that I would like to hunt together.  Generic Blue light blinks for anything.  We're even in the same game but, it should matter.

I do have to say though, I haven't gotten a hard lock in the last few months.

[TJ Spyke]

Actually, in Europe it depends on the country. For example, the Xbox 360 easily kicks PS3's butt in the UK (the biggest and most influential market in Europe).

[Ian Sane]

What really keeps me from buying the Wii U is the Wii itself.  I found that to be an incredibly disappointing system to own and it felt like Nintendo didn't even want me as a customer, like they were focusing on my parents or my girlfriend and either didn't want my business or just felt that because I had supported them before they could take me for granted.  The Wii U just looks like more Wii and I hate the Wii so until the Wii U demonstrates itself to not be another Wii I'm not buying it.

It looks to me like a PS3 being released a year before the PS4 comes out with the DS's control scheme, which the DS did a fantastic job of demonstrating as a dumb useless marketing gimmick for rubes.  I figure the touch screen will just be a annoyance when it I'm forced to use it, like with DS games that forced its usage, and aside from that it's just Nintendo being a generation behind AGAIN.  And the games out thus far is the same sort of casual focused Mii title I hated on the Wii and an NSMB, which I'm sure is fun and all but won't offer me anything new enough to justify a new system for.  NSMB Wii and my old Super Mario All-Stars + Super Mario World cartridge already fill my 2D Mario void.

I think what really did in the Gamecube was that after the N64 Nintendo needed to demonstrate that things were going to be different this time... and they didn't.  If anything they played specifically into their detractors' hands.  It's like they didn't realize that the N64 was largely seen in a negative light and they needed to respond to that.  Casuals liked the Wii (thought NO ONE liked how Nintendo abandoned it for its last two years) but a big chunk of the core gaming market did not.  If Nintendo was even remotely interested in that audience they needed to demonstrate that things would be different and they didn't.  The second it was called the Wii U and they put attention on some gimmick controller they lost anyone that didn't like the Wii.  At the very least there was no way this was going to break out of the Wii's image as a casual system or one that third parties see as not worth supporting.

Sometimes you have to subtlety admit you were wrong and position your next product as getting back on track (think of Microsoft's ad campaign for Windows 7 which more or less acknowledged that Vista sucked).  You don't have to say "we fucked up" but just show that the same problems and mistakes are not being repeated.  Nintendo acted like the N64's cartridge **** up and losing all the third party support was no big deal and have just kept on going like they're perfect the whole time.  Of the three consoles they have released since then, none of them have really suggested that Nintendo has made mistakes and frankly I truly think that they have not learned a damn thing as they constantly **** up routine stuff.  Like, internally, I don't think Nintendo admits to any fault of responsibility whatsoever.  Realistically you should go into a new console analyzing what you did right and wrong so as to improve the product.  I don't see that.  Hell the Wii's whole attitude was like how the gaming market was just super mean to innocent Nintendo and the whole situation is hopeless so let's focus on casuals.

For this upcoming gen the PS4 is the only one that has not outright scared me away yet, but I'm not particularly optimistic about it either.  The Wii U is "no buy" until I see a different Nintendo but I figure the system is stuck in last gen hardware anyway which pretty much fucks it.  Nintendo will probably have to can it quickly and replace it to set things right.  The Xbox 720 is a "no buy" if it's always online.  Frankly Nintendo has been such a key part of my videogame experience that without them, there isn't much point.  I like third party games but as a compliment to the Nintendo releases, not a replacement.  Last gen felt to me like a Nintendo-less videogame market and it sucked.  I'll probably just go retro as there are tons of old games I've never put much time into.  I don't need to buy a current videogame system so no one will win by default.

I seriously think the Wii U is fucked as it sure as hell isn't for core gamers and casuals are now on smartphones.  But then I thought the DS was fucked, and based on how things were like the first year that prediction made tons of sense, but it really managed to turn things around.  So we'll see if Nintendo gets out of this one.  Third party support is really important because game development just takes too long these days.  You can't just hammer out some game in a few months to fill a gap.  Ironically the time period when you could do that, Nintendo didn't have to because their third party support was awesome.

[Stogi]

How quickly things turn sour on this forum where there is nothing to play. I wonder if Retro can single handily shut everyone the **** up.

[pokepal148]

i would like to analyze the following statement made by forum user Ian Sane

What really keeps me from buying the Wii U is the Wii itself.  I found that to be an incredibly disappointing system to own and it felt like Nintendo didn't even want me as a customer, like they were focusing on my parents or my girlfriend and either didn't want my business or just felt that because I had supported them before they could take me for granted.  The Wii U just looks like more Wii and I hate the Wii so until the Wii U demonstrates itself to not be another Wii I'm not buying it.

thats a fair assertion(a bit harsh) but you really should keep an open mind on this... has the Wii U ever been marketed towards grandma at  this point, the only casual game nintendo has announced is wii fit.

It looks to me like a PS3 being released a year before the PS4 comes out with the DS's control scheme, which the DS did a fantastic job of demonstrating as a dumb useless marketing gimmick for rubes. 

And i think we can all disregard Ian's statement after this ignorance/closemindedness on the DS but i'm going to continue to analyze it... i will say i don't recall the DS coming out with (clicking)dual analog and a set of triggers

and aside from that it's just Nintendo being a generation behind AGAIN.

Honestly while the Wii U's components date to 2008, the anounced specs for the 720, if they are as 'off the shelf' as they claim, will, as PC gamers will love to quote, get their asses kicked by an i5 processer from january of 2009... is sony a generation behind now?

And the games out thus far is the same sort of casual focused Mii title I hated on the Wii and an NSMB, which I'm sure is fun and all but won't offer me anything new enough to justify a new system for.

gee, thank you for your open-mindedness, and i'm going to say this now nintendo land is about as much of a minigame collection as Kirby Super Star

For this upcoming gen the PS4 is the only one that has not outright scared me away yet, but I'm not particularly optimistic about it either.

you've already stated that a touchscreen is a gimmick, to me it seems like without the functionality of a second screen a touchpad would be even more of a "dumb useless marketing gimmick for rubes." so given we have already established Sony is "a gen behind" why would you choose them

I think what really did in the Gamecube was that after the N64 Nintendo needed to demonstrate that things were going to be different this time... and they didn't.  If anything they played specifically into their detractors' hands.  It's like they didn't realize that the N64 was largely seen in a negative light and they needed to respond to that.  Casuals liked the Wii (thought NO ONE liked how Nintendo abandoned it for its last two years) but a big chunk of the core gaming market did not.  If Nintendo was even remotely interested in that audience they needed to demonstrate that things would be different and they didn't.  The second it was called the Wii U and they put attention on some gimmick controller they lost anyone that didn't like the Wii.  At the very least there was no way this was going to break out of the Wii's image as a casual system or one that third parties see as not worth supporting.

Sometimes you have to subtlety admit you were wrong and position your next product as getting back on track (think of Microsoft's ad campaign for Windows 7 which more or less acknowledged that Vista sucked).  You don't have to say "we fucked up" but just show that the same problems and mistakes are not being repeated.  Nintendo acted like the N64's cartridge **** up and losing all the third party support was no big deal and have just kept on going like they're perfect the whole time.
Of the three consoles they have released since then, none of them have really suggested that Nintendo has made mistakes and frankly I truly think that they have not learned a damn thing as they constantly **** up routine stuff.  Like, internally, I don't think Nintendo admits to any fault of responsibility whatsoever.  Realistically you should go into a new console analyzing what you did right and wrong so as to improve the product.  I don't see that.  Hell the Wii's whole attitude was like how the gaming market was just super mean to innocent Nintendo and the whole situation is hopeless so let's focus on casuals.

thank you for your wonderful history lesson here,

Of the three consoles they have released since then, none of them have really suggested that Nintendo has made mistakes

so nintendo hasnt made any mistakes

I seriously think the Wii U is fucked as it sure as hell isn't for core gamers

you have not justified that belief... please enlighten me

and casuals are now on smartphones.  But then I thought the DS was fucked, and based on how things were like the first year that prediction made tons of sense, but it really managed to turn things around.  So we'll see if Nintendo gets out of this one.  Third party support is really important because game development just takes too long these days.
You can't just hammer out some game in a few months to fill a gap.  Ironically the time period when you could do that, Nintendo didn't have to because their third party support was awesome.

And how do you propose getting third party support? no matter what you say you have to remember, you can lead a horse to the river but you can't make him drink from it

[alegoicoe]

I think Sony and Microsoft have their act more together than Nintendo currently as long as we're talking about PS3/360. None of them have gotten it right, just less wrong. The comparison also isn't especially fair considering how much longer both consoles have been on the market than Wii U. What Sony announced and Microsoft is rumored to be announcing soon makes me terribly skeptical of both PS4 and Durango. Even with Wii U's current issues, it's still (currently) the least shitty choice to me compared to PS4/Durango.

But let's not forget that it took Sony almost three years and tons of money poured into marketing for the system to pick up sales and establish a strong software library. Let's not forget also the countless firmware upgrades the PS3 has had since launch, improving the system little by little the same as Microsoft with the 360, so I wouldn't say that Nintendo is doomed. True they had a terrible launch followed by a software drought that should end once September comes by, until then there is nothing based on the track record of the other systems that tells me the Wii U is going to fail or that it had the worst system launch in recent history. If I remember correctly the only good game the PS3 had in the first few months after launch was Resistance, other than that everything else was garbage.

[Adrock]

How quickly things turn sour on this forum where there is nothing to play.

Games, specifically those made by Nintendo, are the entire reason this forum and others like it exist. No games, no discussion. How else would you expect people to react?

I think Sony and Microsoft have their act more together than Nintendo currently as long as we're talking about PS3/360. None of them have gotten it right, just less wrong. The comparison also isn't especially fair considering how much longer both consoles have been on the market than Wii U. What Sony announced and Microsoft is rumored to be announcing soon makes me terribly skeptical of both PS4 and Durango. Even with Wii U's current issues, it's still (currently) the least shitty choice to me compared to PS4/Durango.

But let's not forget that it took Sony almost three years and tons of money poured into marketing for the system to pick up sales and establish a strong software library. Let's not forget also the countless firmware upgrades the PS3 has had since launch, improving the system little by little the same as Microsoft with the 360, so I wouldn't say that Nintendo is doomed. True they had a terrible launch followed by a software drought that should end once September comes by, until then there is nothing based on the track record of the other systems that tells me the Wii U is going to fail or that it had the worst system launch in recent history. If I remember correctly the only good game the PS3 had in the first few months after launch was Resistance, other than that everything else was garbage.

I'm confused. You quoted me, but did you read all of it? Specifically:

The comparison also isn't especially fair considering how much longer both consoles have been on the market than Wii U.

[alegoicoe]

I am referring to launch similarities and why it is a mistake to judge Wii U based on its weak launch, when the other two systems had similar launch problems.

[Ian Sane]

I am referring to launch similarities and why it is a mistake to judge Wii U based on its weak launch, when the other two systems had similar launch problems.

What comparison is the market making though?  Does the average guy on the street take into account historical launches when he sees the Wii U or does he just see that it has very few games compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360?  Now every new system has that but it comes along with a new generation.  When the Playstation launched it wasn't getting compared to the Super Nintendo because it was clear that this was a new generation.  But has Nintendo made it clear that they've started a new generation?  The Wii U looks more comparable to the current generation.  I'm not even sure exactly what consoles Nintendo intended the Wii U to compete with and I follow Nintendo news.  I think it looks too much like Nintendo finally released an HD console and it has a mere fraction of the games the other HD consoles have, and it's fighting against rumours and whispers (and in the PS4's case, outright announcements) about new Sony and Microsoft consoles that will replace the PS360 and presumably other products of the same generation.

[pokepal148]

I am referring to launch similarities and why it is a mistake to judge Wii U based on its weak launch, when the other two systems had similar launch problems.

it looks too much like Nintendo finally released an HD console and it has a mere fraction of the games the other HD consoles have, and it's fighting against rumours and whispers (and in the PS4's case, outright announcements)

You mean like the announcement that the PS4 is using a CPU based on the Jaguar processor that was pretty much designed for !@#$*&% cellphones... those ones
at least the Wii U uses real PC components...

[lolmonade]

Most gamers are being patient, by not purchasing a Wii U until there are enough compelling titles to justify purchasing a console.  It's really the hardcore Nintendo fans that they're poisoning the well with by taking their sweet time on releasing 1st party games.

[Adrock]

It's good and bad. I bought a Wii U at launch which I only regret because of the ZombiU bundle. I'd rather Nintendo take their time on releasing games until they're ready. If Nintendo stopped doing that, I'd consider giving up on video games. They already launched a console before it was ready which is disconcerting, but releasing actual games in that manner is a different story. I don't want to be a gamer anymore if Nintendo adopts a "just release it, we'll patch it later" attitude.

[BranDonk Kong]

Still it would be nice if third parties would release games on Wii U...period. Although, I have no time to play games so I wouldn't buy any right now anyway.

[alegoicoe]

I am referring to launch similarities and why it is a mistake to judge Wii U based on its weak launch, when the other two systems had similar launch problems.

What comparison is the market making though?  Does the average guy on the street take into account historical launches when he sees the Wii U or does he just see that it has very few games compared to the PS3 and Xbox 360?  Now every new system has that but it comes along with a new generation.  When the Playstation launched it wasn't getting compared to the Super Nintendo because it was clear that this was a new generation.  But has Nintendo made it clear that they've started a new generation?  The Wii U looks more comparable to the current generation.  I'm not even sure exactly what consoles Nintendo intended the Wii U to compete with and I follow Nintendo news.  I think it looks too much like Nintendo finally released an HD console and it has a mere fraction of the games the other HD consoles have, and it's fighting against rumours and whispers (and in the PS4's case, outright announcements) about new Sony and Microsoft consoles that will replace the PS360 and presumably other products of the same generation.

You make a fair point, but i think Nintendo can capitalize on the launch struggles of both coming consoles are going to have in order to gather momentum and at least move some unts past 10 mil. That would surely help them and boost software production. In the end its just a matter of how well Nintendo manages the situation, if they rectify their flaws as well as they did with the 3ds, then WiiU might just have a chance to prove the market wrong.

[Evan_B]

I swear, it's like I seriously WANT to post in these forums, but broodwars and his constant, highly-opinionated railing on Nintendo prevent me from doing so.

In the end, the fanbase needs to understand that they are a single, individual entity in the massive collection of people who like Nintendo for a bunch of different reasons, and the best thing that they can do in order to get the "Nintendo experience" they long for is by supporting their hardware and software. I understand that not all titles are for everyone, but again, we're not at a period in time where a variety of games is something we can ask for, or demand, of the company. If you think there's no excuse for this, you obviously have no knowledge of the development cycles that we're currently going through (and even if you feel that "Nintendo brought it upon themselves", look at how they've handled previous consoles) and that there's not much of an understanding of the current industry. No company, and very few developers, are actually doing well. If you want to own quality games from developers, you sure as hell better support them now or you won't see much of them in the future. While the Wii U isn't selling well right now and hardly has any games, we are at a point where people bash on Nintendo because it's the easiest thing to- because we're pre-E3 and Nintendo is very discreet at this point.

And if you find nothing appealing from the current selection of games, surprise- you're in the minority. Software releases are based on popular trends and the "good old fashioned" view of Nintendo, or video games in general, is no longer the popular opinion- because this is a consumerist market and companies are developing for what trends are popular. So however badly you want Nintendo to return to their roots, or whatever- it's probably not going to happen, because the market is ever-changing. Video game enthusiasts seem to have very little understanding of this, because they're generally a group of entitled pricks- us included. And while it's all fine and well to be so, just think of how influential these few people are in the majority the market is trying to reach.

Whoooooooooosh.

[broodwars]

I swear, it's like I seriously WANT to post in these forums, but broodwars and his constant, highly-opinionated railing on Nintendo prevent me from doing so.

"Constant?" Aside from a handful of forum threads, I'm usually content to just lurk on the forums these days. It's so much more entertaining just watching the rest of you kill each other over something stupid. But hey, it's all part of the service if it makes you learn to think for yourself and stand up for your own opinion. 

And if you find nothing appealing from the current selection of games, surprise- you're in the minority.

Actually, considering how poor the Wii U's sales have been month after month, I'd say you're in the minority if you find the current selection of Wii U games appealing.  That's not opinion.  That's a completely prove-able fact based on the Wii U's market penetration and software sales compared to its competitors'.

Software releases are based on popular trends and the "good old fashioned" view of Nintendo, or video games in general, is no longer the popular opinion- because this is a consumerist market and companies are developing for what trends are popular.

While I would certainly say that was the case with the Wii, if the Wii U was truly capitalizing on a popular trend it probably would be selling much better than it actually has.  Instead, it seems to be capitalizing on a trend that very few people buying game systems really seem to give a **** about, at least without a compelling software library to go with it. *shrugs*

[bustin98]

Actually, considering how poor the Wii U's sales have been month after month, I'd say you're in the minority if you find the current selection of Wii U games appealing.  That's not opinion.  That's a completely prove-able fact based on the Wii U's market penetration and software sales compared to its competitors'.

No, it's conjecture. It could be insufficient funds. It could be a lack of education on available games, or the lack of knowledge on features of the games that are available.

That said, Nintendo should have had their **** together when they launched the WiiU. "Give it time" shouldn't be an excuse to fall back on.

[Ian Sane]

In the end, the fanbase needs to understand that they are a single, individual entity in the massive collection of people who like Nintendo for a bunch of different reasons, and the best thing that they can do in order to get the "Nintendo experience" they long for is by supporting their hardware and software.

See I think it can go both ways.  During the Gamecube years I supported Nintendo very loyally and wanted them to succeed, even despite their numerous annoying screw-ups, because I felt that their approach to game design was the best and I wanted them to have enough standing in the industry so that they would have good influence on the industry as a whole.  We had just had a bunch of kids getting raised on the Playstation that thought Nintendo was just for babies.  Some of those kids were going to make the games of tomorrow and videogames would be worse off if they were ignorant of Nintendo.

But I don't care for the current "Nintendo experience" so I am specifically NOT supporting the Wii U to voice my displeasure.  I now have the opposite view of Nintendo where I see them as a bad influence that I don't want the developers of tomorrow to learn bad habbits from.  The Wii U's poor sales are how I feel things ought to be as I always saw the Wii as an overachieving fad that succeeded on the ignorance of casuals and non-gamers.

Support with your dollar that which you feel is worth supporting.  If you feels like an obligation, then it probably isn't worth supporting.  A Nintendo I want to support and encourage is one that would make a console I would immediately WANT to buy.  I could live with a Nintendo console that is slim on games around launch if those games were ones I felt I had to play and were the sort of games I wished to encourage the creation of.  But that is not the case so they don't get my money.  I will reward Nintendo for that which deserves rewarding.  I would not expect Nintendo to be perfect but I just have a minimum expectation and Nintendo has to be above it.