Topic: Satoru Iwata: Hubris versus Western Culture

[marty]

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2013/04/02/satoru-iwata-hubris-versus-western-culture/


Another rundown of Nintendo by Emily Rogers.

[broodwars]

Any internet article that cites Sean Malstrom not just once, but TWICE isn't worth anyone's time. There may be some good points in there, but the moment you bring that nutcase up to support your argument, you lose all credibility.

[Enner]

I was thinking of posting this yesterday. Beaten to the punch!

Reading from only the gathered Iwata and Miyamoto quotes, Nintendo has made a lot of broken promises, pleas to understand, and apologies under Iwata's tenure as CEO of the company since 2002. It is a sight to see the quotes over the years condensed in a single article. Granted, if any one's speech is recorded over several years, there are bound to be instances of contradiction.

There are some things I find disagreeable or odd with the article. Is hubris the right word to use for Iwata's shortcomings? Now that I think about it, there is a passive pride in how Nintendo has carried itself. There is certainly some sort of stubbornness. Second, Off-TV play might be more valuable in practicality. While many households have multiple televisions, there is probably only one big HD TV in a given household. It is not desirable to shuffle consoles between TVs or to have a console connected to the lesser TV of the household. This is where Off-TV play is a convenient feature.


EDIT:
The article raises questions: Do you think Iwata is doing a good job as CEO of Nintendo? Do you think he should be replaced or allowed to continue?


It is unfair to ask such questions since the Wii U's fate has yet to be set in stone, but it can't be denied that it has under performed. I can't bring myself to dislike or sack a man that wears a Luigi hat and shows me experiences I want to buy in the future. But the string of broken promises makes me wonder if a different person could have done a better job.

[Adrock]

I didn't think "hubris" was the right word either. Maybe "inconsistent" would be better.

The quotes in that article are relevant to the time when they were spoken. It sounds woefully contradictory out of context. Nintendo isn't saying, "Traditional controllers are too complicated, here's the Wii Remote. J/K here's the GamePad." The Wii Remote was carried over to Wii U because Nintendo still believes traditional controls are too complicated for some people. Additionally, they aren't telling those people to use all the buttons on the GamePad. They're telling those people to ignore the buttons and use the touchscreen (for games that use it, of course) or use the Wii Remote. For core games, the GamePad takes nothing away from while providing more options.

The contradiction here may be that Nintendo is now offering a controller that looks daunting when they previously said buttons confuse people. That's one way of looking at it. Another is just an evolving strategy. The GamePad is Nintendo admitting, in a way, that people won't immediately dismiss an entire product because it has buttons so long as they're shown what else can be done with it (use that giant screen).

Anyway, I don't believe Iwata is doing a bad job. He could, like many others, be doing a better job. I agree with the part of the article that suggests Reggie shoulders a lot of blame that should rightly be placed on Iwata. While people were moaning about Reggie's reluctance to bring the Rainfall games over, NCL gave Reggie three games in genres that aren't popular in the west and almost nothing else. "Here's some sand and a handful of Q-Tips. MacGyver us some sales, Reggie." Be upset that Reggie was holding onto completed games, but also be upset that Iwata and co planned the end of Wii's life so poorly.

[Ian Sane]

My beef with Iwata stems pretty much entirely for the fact that Nintendo has changed from being what I considered the best videogame company in the world into something that doesn't really connect with me at all and seems to have abandoned the very things I felt made them great in the first place.  This change coincides with Iwata tenure and that makes sense.  A company will often change with their leadership.

Iwata looked to who was not buying videogames and wanted to get them on board.  He sees videogame as something for everyone and I strongly disagree with him on that.  Videogames are not a passive activity like watching TV or listening to music.  By their nature they require interaction from the player and anything that involves interaction requires some barrier of entry.  To make games more accessible and lower the barrier of entry you have to remove some of the key elements that make them interesting to the existing players in the first place.  So he didn't make something for everyone, he made something dumbed down for a different audience.  If you make a game easy it turns off people who want a challenge.  If you make a game simple it turns off people who want depth and complexity.  You do not expand your demographics my lowering the barrier of entry, you merely cut off the top to bring in the bottom.  Now if the bottom is bigger you'll sell more product, but you're not making something for everybody.

But the new audience he attracted has no loyality because you will never get loyal or dedicated customers from appealing to the lowest common denominator.  It's the nature of fads.  So now his new audience has switched to smartphones and his old audience is gone and he can't give Wii Us away.

[Luigi Dude]

But the new audience he attracted has no loyality because you will never get loyal or dedicated customers from appealing to the lowest common denominator.  It's the nature of fads.  So now his new audience has switched to smartphones and his old audience is gone and he can't give Wii Us away.

People like you said the same thing when the 3DS did poorly it's early months, but once again were proven wrong when the price dropped and big games came out which is why the 3DS is doing fine now.  Once the Wii U drops it's price and the big titles like Mario Kart come out, it'll do just fine as well.

Until smartphones start getting Nintendo games, Nintendo aint losing their main audience anytime soon.  If people want to play the newest Mario Kart, they'll have to buy a Wii U this Fall since it wont be playable on any smartphones.  The argument that people won't buy Nintendo consoles anymore for the Nintendo series they love just because they can play Angry Bird on their phone is so flawed you just make yourself look very foolish by mentioning it.

[shingi_70]

I don't think the market is gone but its going to be harder to push some software and hardware. I don't see why Wii Fit U with its pedometer is innovative and going to be appealing. Ina post Nike+/Fit Bit? Jaw bone up world I can't see Wii Fit U doing as well as its predecessors. You could picm up the Nike+ Kinect gamet hat syncs with the Nike+ program. WIth both  Nike+ and Fitbit planning to open up their api's to third party developers to use.
 
That and I think  Wii Fit should have been launched either before new years or last month before spring started,
But yeah Iwata has bungled third party relations. To start NOA should be given more free reign and have more input. At this point controlling everything from Japan is becoming detrimental and is what happned to sony during the PS3 launch. I want to say that they should have a developer in more important positions like sony/Microsoft but than I realize Iwata is the fucking President. 
 
Maybe more input from non Miyamoto developers would help. Have the hardware division work in the same space as Monolith or what ever the hell Sakurai is doing these days. \
Alonside building up more studios in all different regions. Creating a studio for literally one game and than shuttering them just seems to be the makings of a bad business man.
 

[Ian Sane]

Until smartphones start getting Nintendo games, Nintendo aint losing their main audience anytime soon.  If people want to play the newest Mario Kart, they'll have to buy a Wii U this Fall since it wont be playable on any smartphones.  The argument that people won't buy Nintendo consoles anymore for the Nintendo series they love just because they can play Angry Bird on their phone is so flawed you just make yourself look very foolish by mentioning it.

When the hell did I ever make that argument?  Nintendo nuts that eat up every Mario game will buy the system no matter what.  I'm talking about the casuals that ate up Wii Sports and Wii Fit.  The new audience Nintendo risked everything on has gone to smartphones.  The general pre-Wii videogame audience that like Nintendo games along with videogames in general but were losing interest more and more with each Nintendo console since the N64 were turned off by the Wii as Nintendo seemingly told them to take a hike.  Outside of Nintendo specific forums like these, Nintendo is completely irrelevant outside of handhelds in gaming culture.

The Wii U currently appeals to diehard Nintendo nuts and Nintendo is the only developer that seemingly gives the slightest **** about it.  That's Iwata's legacy.  He turned off the existing gaming industry and customerbase for three years of mainstream fad sales.

[Oblivion]

Ian, why do you go to this site?

[pokepal148]

Iwata is just, to an extent, out of touch... the article mainly points at standard corporate shinanigans but the issue is simply where the DS and Wii separate,

Iwata looked to who was not buying videogames and wanted to get them on board. He sees videogame as something for everyone and I strongly disagree with him on that.  Videogames are not a passive activity like watching TV or listening to music.  By their nature they require interaction from the player and anything that involves interaction requires some barrier of entry.

i am in high school atm and that is how gaming is being treated, it is normal for people to be scammed into the newest madden or to be excited for the next Call of Duty,

To make games more accessible and lower the barrier of entry you have to remove some of the key elements that make them interesting to the existing players in the first place.
If you make a game simple it turns off people who want depth and complexity.  You do not expand your demographics my lowering the barrier of entry, you merely cut off the top to bring in the bottom.

so close minded here, the pokemon metagame would like to talk. Brawl also is very simple to learn how to play and yet, as much as melee fans like to bitch and moan, offers a great metagame as well

i think the New Super Mario Bros. series debunks that completely, The only thing 'dumbed down' there is the presentation (although tbh the visuals are for the most part a natural evolution from world with a touch of sunshine although that music....)

But the new audience he attracted has no loyality because you will never get loyal or dedicated customers from appealing to the lowest common denominator.  It's the nature of fads.  So now his new audience has switched to smartphones and his old audience is gone and he can't give Wii Us away.

no argument here except this, I first owned a nintendo console when he was in office, am i part of the problem...

the biggest change has been how conservative nintendo has been with him in office, we have seen no major new IP's since he came in and expirimentation in games(sunshine) has died as well...

what iwata(and Ian apparently) needs to realize is that it isn't 1996 anymore, everyone in the major market has played video games be it farmville or madden. if they want to expand their audience they need to target the dormant gamer, that person who played games back in the day and now, maybe pulls out angry birds on their phone once in a while...

[Oblivion]

no argument here except this, I first owned a nintendo console when he was in office, am i part of the problem...

No, you're just too young to have not to have bought a system when he wasn't. I don't expect you to gotten a NES when it first released.


(Just to let you know, I'm not trying to make fun of you. I'm only a few years older than you are. I think.)

[pokepal148]

no argument here except this, I first owned a nintendo console when he was in office, am i part of the problem...

May God bless and keep you always
May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
May you build a ladder to the stars
And climb on every rung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.

May you grow up to be righteous
May you grow up to be true
May you always know the truth
And see the lights surrounding you
May you always be courageous
Stand upright and be strong
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.

May your hands always be busy
May your feet always be swift
May you have a strong foundation
When the winds of changes shift
May your heart always be joyful
And may your song always be sung
May you stay forever young
Forever young, forever young
May you stay forever young.

i'm sorry... it was too good, i had to

[Caterkiller]

I'm pretty cool with Iwata, the way the company works most of the time and even cool with long waits between releases.

What are the options though to filling up the release schedule? I mean all of us including Nintendo, I'm sure thought we would have at least one exclusive in February with Rayman. But with Nintendo's general philosophy towards games, we will never get a spread out schedule. They finish until they think its complete and as bug free as possible. Either they release the first completed Luigi's Mansion which might have been good or they release the great LM that we have now. Of course that rule of more fun with more time doesn't always apply but at least we know the games won't be a buggy mess. Though this doesn't make games come out faster I really wish Nintendo wouldn't put multiple big name releases in a single month. It rarely happens but if one of those games was delayed a month it seems that would help sells for both and make it appear like a fuller schedule. Of course if they have a lot of games that they want out for that big holiday rush there is no way they would push around everything else.

Sometimes I honestly think that Nintendo believes the 3rd parties who show initial interest in their systems at launch will fill in those first few months.

As for the drought promises, I remember that promise every generation since GameCube. I remember hearing how game development would get faster and never noticed it once. There are things that all companies say that I just take at face value now. What I do know is, I eventually always got my Pokemon, my awesome Marios with great star dragging and Yoshi tongue pointer controls, my Zelda with great(not perfect) motion controls and 2 outrageously amazing DK titles to name a few. So I'm cool, but I hardly represent any kind of majority.

Back to my question... How can Nintendo get 3rd parties to fill in the blanks?

1 - Money Hats - Is that what's going on with Platinum and Lego City? Not going to happen much that's for sure.
2 - Make a more powerful machine? GameCube, DS, 3DS, say no. It would help but by how much.

I am completely of the opinion that people are people no matter what. By that I mean they have grudges, agendas and everything is only escalated to rich levels with developers. Some of you talk about power or the dollar being the bottom line, but its clear as a bell to me that even of Nintendo released a machine totally capable of PS4 visuals(what ever those are) right out the gate Nintendo would be in the exact same position except less UE4 mockery.

3 - They could start buying more development houses but of course what happens if people just up an leave?

4 - they just do everything that is considered industry standard? Then what? I wouldn't have my Wii Mote or Upad and I love those things to death. And if they were there we'd still get the same excuses as we do now, controller is too unique.

Posting from an Epsom salt bath.

[SixthAngel]

the biggest change has been how conservative nintendo has been with him in office, we have seen no major new IP's since he came in and expirimentation in games(sunshine) has died as well...

It drives me absolutely crazy every time someone says anything like this. Every single part of this is wrong.

Iwata presided over probably the riskiest years Nintendo has ever had. The Wii and the DS were both huge risks. Just because they are successful doesn't make them anywhere in the ballpark of conservative.
Not only that but the games that started it all for both of these behemoths were new IPs.
Experimentation in games dieing with Sunshine? Have you played any of Nintendo's games for the Wii? I'm not going to make some kind of huge list but the Wii was the console for experimental games and games that did something new.

[Sarail]

Ian, why do you go to this site?

The same reason that I do - because he loves and has a passion for Nintendo games.

Cater, it's crazy reading your posts now and putting your voice to your written words. Just thought I'd say that. Hah.

But yeah, I agree with you completely. I see it everyday, and also when I'm with my core group of friends, that there is this general "Nintendo is irrelevant" mentality amongst everyone.  It saddens me, and it all began with the N64 fiasco of going with cartridges instead of CDs - a Yamauchi decision, mind you. I've said this before on the forums, but I wonder how different the game industry would have been had Nintendo decided to go with disc-based media instead of carts. I know Nintendo had a somewhat bossy attitude during the beginning years of the N64 and before...so, I don't really know how to place them according to how third parties would have felt about them leading up to now - if they had gone with CDs then.

It's kind of crazy to think things could be very different.

[pokepal148]

the biggest change has been how conservative nintendo has been with him in office, we have seen no major new IP's since he came in and expirimentation in games(sunshine) has died as well...

It drives me absolutely crazy every time someone says anything like this. Every single part of this is wrong.

Iwata presided over probably the riskiest years Nintendo has ever had. The Wii and the DS were both huge risks. Just because they are successful doesn't make them anywhere in the ballpark of conservative.
Not only that but the games that started it all for both of these behemoths were new IPs.
Experimentation in games dieing with Sunshine? Have you played any of Nintendo's games for the Wii? I'm not going to make some kind of huge list but the Wii was the console for experimental games and games that did something new.

Yes I have, waggle waggle, that is so experimental, and I mean ips that appeal to a more serious gamer... galaxy was a very safe type of expirimentation.

[Oblivion]

Ian, why do you go to this site?

The same reason that I do - because he loves and has a passion for Nintendo games.

Are we reading the same posts?

[Luigi Dude]

Yes I have, waggle waggle, that is so experimental, and I mean ips that appeal to a more serious gamer... galaxy was a very safe type of expirimentation.

Legend of Starfy
Drill Dozer
Rhythm Heaven
Band Brothers
Ouendan/Elite Beat Agents
Another Code
Magical Starsign
Hotel Dusk
ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat
Soma Bringer
Fossil Fighters
Geist
Chibi-Robo
Odama
Captain Rainbow
Disaster: Day of Crisis
Tact of Magic
Zangeki no Reginleiv
Xenoblade
The Last Story
Pandora's Tower
Steel Diver
Pushmo
Sakura Samurai
Dillon's Rolling Western
Fluidity
HarmoKnight
The Wonderful 101
X


Yeah, no new IP's that appeal to serious gamers under Iwata alright.    Yeah some of them might not have come to America but that's an argument about how NOA needs to be handled better then Iwata being too conservative with the games Nintendo develops.  Doesn't change the fact Iwata spent money to create a **** load of new IP's since he's been president and the majority have appealed to Nintendo's longtime traditional audience.

And before anyone starts saying they need to be major, tell me what the **** constitutes major then?  Xenoblade's budget was probably bigger then every Wii Sports, Fit, Music and Party combined, and yet people act like Xenoblade doesn't count as major.  Which is funny when these same people say Pikmin was the last major new IP, when the original Pikmin was a low budget game that was very short, no different then most of the new IP's in the list I post that they say don't count under Iwata.  Games like Xenoblade, The Last Story and the upcoming X are much risker then Pikmin ever was since the size of their games and budgets are much bigger, and yet people still act like Pikmin was the last time Nintendo took a risk.

[NWR_insanolord]

I'm not sure why everyone's so down on Iwata and nostalgic for the days of Yamauchi when it's Yamauchi's policies that put us in this mess to begin with. The way he treated third parties is the reason they jumped ship, and while Iwata's done a lot to bring them back, he couldn't undo that damage. People talk of IPs, but Nintendo was never that concerned with creating new IPs regardless of who was in charge.

[Stogi]

[broodwars]

There are some 3rd party games on that list (most notably 2 out of the 3 Operation Rainfall games), which I consider an attempt to unnecessarily make your list more impressive than it actually is considering Nintendo didn't actually develop them.  As for what people consider "major" IPs, my first thought would be "anything released on physical media, preferably with an actual marketing budget" (i.e. not digital-only games like HarmoKnight).  Until Nintendo has more of a presence in the realm of digital games, I have a hard time calling anything they dump on their eShops "major titles", at least compared to the Shadow Complexes or Walking Deads of the competition's digital services.

As for the topic at hand, I can't say I'm fond of Iwata. Under his leadership, I feel like Nintendo's 1st party titles have largely declined.  I have a very hard time now getting excited for one of them these days, because I know exactly what to expect (with some exceptions, of course).  Perhaps it's an artifact of being exposed to so many other experiences on other platforms over the past generation, but so much of what Nintendo makes these days feels very "safe" and bland to me.

My problem with the people calling for his ouster, though, is simple: who would you have in his stead?  I can't think of another notable person at Nintendo I'd rather have running the company than making games, and given Japan's business culture an outsider will never run that company.  A lot of the problems many of us have with Nintendo wouldn't go away with someone new at the helm, as many of those problems can be traced back to the decline of the Japanese game industry in general (and many more to trends in the global game industry).

Nintendo of America, though, is a different story. IMO, Reggie's needed to go for a long time now, and unlike Nintendo corporate his successor could be drawn from outside the company (and thus bring new perspective and ideas).  Perhaps a stronger NoA rejuvenated by fresh blood with a new vision and mission could bring Nintendo in general back in line.

[NWR_insanolord]

Bill Trinen for NOA NCL President.

[Adrock]

I'm not sure why everyone's so down on Iwata and nostalgic for the days of Yamauchi when it's Yamauchi's policies that put us in this mess to begin with. The way he treated third parties is the reason they jumped ship, and while Iwata's done a lot to bring them back, he couldn't undo that damage. People talk of IPs, but Nintendo was never that concerned with creating new IPs regardless of who was in charge.

Seriously. Nintendo only made new IPs one after another because they had to. They didn't have Mario or Zelda so they made Mario and Zelda. Additionally, what is strange to me is people seem to want new IPs simply because they're new, ignoring the fact that "new" doesn't automatically make it "good" and "old" doesn't automatically mean you can't bring new ideas to it. Would Skyward Sword be a better game if Nintendo replaced all the Zelda references and you played as a female character? They can and are doing new things with old IPs (cue someone bringing up New Super Mario Bros.). Perhaps not every time, but people act like it never happens.

Honestly, I don't want the Yamauchi days back. His policies were ****. Iwata is doing a better job than people give him credit for. He could be doing some things better, but the difference is his competition. Yamauchi got away with bullying third parties because his competition was so weak. It wasn't until Sony came along that it became clear that his success relied so much on his competitors' failures. Not entirely, but he was completely out of touch with an evolving gaming culture.

Iwata is up against Sony and Microsoft, two companies who only seem as strong as they do if you ignore how much money they've lost to get where they are. The ships aren't sailing as smooth as they seem. People talk about Nintendo going third party while ignoring that Sony's and Microsoft's way of doing things is terribly unstable and many third parties have bit the dust siding with them. It's easy to pick apart Iwata's performance wearing rose colored glasses, but it's really not as simple as people are making it.

[Ceric]

I do have to agree that Iwata has a lot more stiff competition then Yamauchi did.

1.  Smartphones.  Mobile was Gameboy back in the day because it was really all you had.  Now not so much.
2. Sony.  PS2 was big boon and Sony can and will use a lost leading strategy to get a foot hold.  In a ways its impressive how the PS3 has turned around from that train wreck of a beginning.
3. Microsoft.  To be fair Yamauchi had to deal with them in his day as well but, not the console power house they are now.  With gaming going back to its Western roots more a Western player is very powerful.  Add in yet again the ability to just lose money on the devision to get a foothold its a really tough spot to be.

Amist all that competition throw in a Global economic crisis of Iwata's own to through into the mix.  Bad relationship with 3rd parties he inherited.  Social Revolution.  It's not been an easy Presidency for Iwata in any stretch of the imagination.

I will admit they made some bad hardware decisions on the WiiU, non-standard USB ports and whatever is making the load times terrible.  It will be interesting to see how it will work out.  Though Nintendo doesn't need to be THE system you own.  They need to be A system you own.  Also botched the great potential of TVii and the remote function.

[Adrock]

What do you mean by "non-standard USB ports?" I thought they were standard, just 2.0 instead of 3.0. Were you referring to 3.0 being today's standard?

And I thought the load times were slow due the code lacked optimization. The April update is supposed to speed things up quite a bit.