Author Topic: Cliff Bleszinski says things.  (Read 11750 times)

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Offline marty

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Re: Cliff Bleszinski says things.
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2013, 03:09:45 PM »
Just because someone trades in a game, that does not necessarily mean that they were dissatisfied with it. Likewise, keeping a game doesn't necessarily mean that it provided some endless value. When I traded Fallout 3 in, does that mean that Bethesda "didn't do their job" in providing some fantastic experience worth my money? **** no (though there were tons of bugs). It's a 100+ hour game, and I had my fill and would never play it again.  I buy games for the experience they provide me when I buy them, and if I decide I want to hold onto them beyond that, fine.  If not, they served their purpose, and there's nothing wrong with that.

For all your bragging about Nintendo, I own 12 Wii retail games, only 4 of which were published by Nintendo. I've gotten rid of all the other Nintendo-published Wii games I've purchased.  So as far as I'm concerned, Nintendo's failed to make much of anything in the past generation I wanted to keep, yet I'm not going to say their games weren't worth the money for the time I had them.  And not every game I've kept on my 65-game PS3 retail collection is a flawless classic. I just like playing them from time to time.
*addressing your points out of sequence*
Personal habits aside and tastes aside, you can't say Nintendo didn't sell a lot of games in the first few years of the Wii.  They made a ton of money, which was kind of the gist of Cliffy's tantrum--that gamers aren't giving developers enough money.  I'm not bragging about Nintendo (funny, I usually get **** for being the least bit critical of Nintendo, most threads), I'm saying they sold a bunch of games that didn't cost $100M to make, which is just an objective observation that Cliffy doesn't seem to address at all.


If you hold onto a game, instead of selling it, it's because it's worth more to you(FOR WHATEVER REASON) to keep it than sell it.  This is just a simple logical conclusion.  The inverse is also true.  It has no bearing on how much or how little you spent on the game or how much or how little you like the game... whatever the reason is, you've made a decision about the objective value of the game and are acting rationally.  Someone that buys a game is acting rationally.  Someone that sells a game is acting rationally.  Someone that keeps a game is acting rationally.  These are all true things that free-market economies demonstrate repeatedly.  As a consumer, your purchasing habits are always correct--this is another given.


Given the free-market option of selling back games they no longer want, some people want to play a lot of games but aren't going to hold onto everything they buy.  I think this is an entirely acceptable way for a consumer to behave (as did a young Cliffy).  Since the market has basically operated this way from the start, why are developers escalating development costs into the hundred million dollar range?  Either make games that people want to keep (or that doesn't flood the secondary market) or keep your costs down and price your game accordingly.  Crying about spending $100M on a $60 game that people are going to sell as soon as they've had their fill just makes Cliffy look like a pansy.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 03:13:43 PM by marty »

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Cliff Bleszinski says things.
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2013, 03:38:22 PM »
In typical business you have a sales projection and you plan your budget accordingly so that you'll make a profit.  The game industry routinely makes sales projections where the game has to be a massive hit to break even.  Okay, I can see making that a mistake a few times but this is like the routine now.  If making those sale projections is a high risk then lower your sales projections and go with a lower budget.  What other industry throws a hissy fit and blames the consumer when they get their projections wrong?

It seems that everyone sees Call of Duty and decides that that is what they must also achieve.  And now this has warped into this idea that that kind of game is the ONLY thing that customers will accept.  Even if you wanted to make a game with a lower budget the market will only buy something with production values of Call of Duty so you HAVE to match it.  And of course everyone can't be number one so a lot of games put themselves in a position where they need Call of Duty success but fail to get it.  Of course Nintendo did pretty damn well with the Wii with games like Wii Sports and NSMB Wii which did not have even close to the budget of Call of Duty.

I think this whole assumption of "Call of Duty or bust" is the typical corporate attitude where no one has any ideas and just copies what was worked in the past.  They see the most successful game and figure that that is not only the approach to take but the ONLY approach to take.  Better to risk it all on a AAAAAAA game with an insane budget and then blame used games if it fails then to break the trend and risk things on a lower budget game that does not require huge sales to make a profit.  If breaking the trend fails, you take all the blame while you can scapegoat if you failed with the "safe" and expected thing.

Offline marty

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Re: Cliff Bleszinski says things.
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2013, 04:52:25 PM »
yeah, CoD sales aren't going to happen unless you build a solid product line over a 10 year stretch, like IW/Treyarch did.  I don't know if EA, or Ubisoft, or anyone else putting in that kind of effort to achieve CoD like sales numbers, either.


Consumers have always seemed to be a bit indifferent to purely technological advances--maybe certain genres explode and then die off quickly (FMV games) as the novelty of it all wears off and the games are realized to be crap.  Wii/GB/DS are all technical weaklings but sold incredibly well (and were super profitable for Nintendo).  I'm also having a hard time coming up with a game that really broke ground from a design perspective and from a technological perspective that ever put up any kind of spectacular numbers.  Even out of nowhere surprise hits always seem to be in genre blind-spots rather than a game being technological leaders or a new genre made possible by new tech.


I don't really have any personal objections against day 1 DLC or micro-transactions.  I do believe they give off the impression that $60 doesn't buy you the full game, though--which is debatable.

Offline Stogi

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Re: Cliff Bleszinski says things.
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2013, 11:51:01 PM »
Gamefly must be pissed.
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