Topic: I still don't get Monster Hunter...

[ShyGuy]

So I downloaded the new demo on Wii U today, installed it and hopped in.

The demo gives you couple monsters to kill. I choose the Giant Sword cause it looks kinda cool.

Boom! I'm in New Zealand! It looks like the Wii Monster Hunter Demo except prettier. Two undescribable midget fairies are following me around. There a dinosaurs grazing in the distance. I go and stab them and they die easily.

This map is horribly small. Let's see if we can zoom in... several minutes later and that was much harder than it should have been, the zoomed in map looks even worse! why can't I see the map on the gamepad?

The game map seems to be a loose collection of outdoor rooms anyway, I wander around for ten minutes. Apparently my time is half over, and I still haven't found the monster I'm supposed to kill.

I find the monster. He kills me in like 45 seconds. Cat midgets drag me back to camp and I have to go find the monster again. OOPS TIMES UP.

2/10

[BlackNMild2k1]

So I downloaded the new demo on Wii U today, installed it and hopped in.

The demo gives you couple monsters to kill. I choose the Giant Sword cause it looks kinda cool.

Boom! I'm in New Zealand! It looks like the Wii Monster Hunter Demo except prettier. Two undescribable midget fairies are following me around. There a dinosaurs grazing in the distance. I go and stab them and they die easily.

This map is horribly small. Let's see if we can zoom in... several minutes later and that was much harder than it should have been, the zoomed in map looks even worse! why can't I see the map on the gamepad?

The game map seems to be a loose collection of outdoor rooms anyway, I wander around for ten minutes. Apparently my time is half over, and I still haven't found the monster I'm supposed to kill.

I find the monster. He kills me in like 45 seconds. Cat midgets drag me back to camp and I have to go find the monster again. OOPS TIMES UP.

2/10

OMG. that was almost my same exact experience.
except I battled the giant bunny looking thing for a good 5 minutes before it finally killed me.

[broodwars]

Ugh. I have the demo downloaded to my Wii U right now, but have been busy playing other things so I haven't gotten to it yet. From the sounds of things, I might as well just delete it now but I feel obligated to give it a chance out of respect for certain die-hard fans of it on my Twitter/podcast feed.  I'm starting to wonder if Capcom needs to put up a "You must be this Japanese and have played THIS many Monster Hunter games to Enjoy" sign on these Monster Hunter demos, because if everything I've heard about previous ones is right Capcom just can't make a good one.

[azeke]

Replace Monster Hunter with Dota2 and that's me.
Or don't replace cause i don't get MH just as well.

[ShyGuy]

On the bright side, F-Zero is still fun after all these years!

[Kytim89]

Never go by a Monster Hunter demo to judge the final game. I played the Wii game's demo and almost cancelled my pre-order and never touch the game again. However, I played the final game and logged about three hundred and ten hours into it before I stopped playing for other games. The games are a massive time sink and take a whole of patience to master. It will take about thirty or forty hours before the game gets really good.

[NWR_insanolord]

Everyone says Monster Hunter demos are terrible and not representative of the actual game, and yet for some reason Capcom keeps putting them out.

[Oblivion]

A well designed game shouldn't take forty hours to get good. That isn't a phrase that makes me want to get the game.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I'm starting to wonder if Capcom needs to put up a "You must be this Japanese and have played THIS many Monster Hunter games to Enjoy"

That's a little unfair. I've played only one Monster Hunter game which was Tri, I had no experience of the series prior to that, and I adored that game. Monster Hunter definitely demands that you learn it's systems, but I also feel like it gives you sufficient training in the tutorials. The problem seems to be that you simply can't explain those systems in the shorter format of a demo.
 
 

[Pixelated Pixies]

A well designed game shouldn't take forty hours to get good. That isn't a phrase that makes me want to get the game.

For what it's worth, I disagree with Kytim89 that it takes that long for the games to get good. Personally, I had fun with Tri from the outset. I might not have understood all the systems right away and I died more often that I care to admit, but I was still having fun learning what worked and what didn't, learning how to craft new weapons, learning which armor worked best, learning where on the map I could farm resources etc. If you like the feeling of discovery and don't think that trying things for yourself is a chore then I'd say you'll enjoy it from the beginning.
 
The fun parts for me in Monster Hunter weren't necessarilly the sections when I felt like I was dominating (although those were pretty awesome), but rather the parts where I was figuring stuff out and making incremental improvements to my character. If you're not in to that sort of thing then I don't think it will ever be fun for you. Even 40 hours later.

[NWR_insanolord]

I just played through the 3DS demo, and I thought it was okay. I didn't really understand a lot of it, and it basically just throws you into it with no tutorial or even an explanation of the controls. The demo seems like it was designed for people who are already familiar with the series.

I found what I think was the thing I was supposed to kill, and I kept whacking at it for a while but I eventually died. Is there a way to see the health of the boss somewhere? I hit it a whole bunch of times, and it flashed when I did so I know it registered, but I'm not sure if there's any way to know if I'm making progress.

[Oblivion]

A well designed game shouldn't take forty hours to get good. That isn't a phrase that makes me want to get the game.

For what it's worth, I disagree with Kytim89 that it takes that long for the games to get good. Personally, I had fun with Tri from the outset. I might not have understood all the systems right away and I died more often that I care to admit, but I was still having fun learning what worked and what didn't, learning how to craft new weapons, learning which armor worked best, learning where on the map I could farm resources etc. If you like the feeling of discovery and don't think that trying things for yourself is a chore then I'd say you'll enjoy it from the beginning.
 
The fun parts for me in Monster Hunter weren't necessarilly the sections when I felt like I was dominating (although those were pretty awesome), but rather the parts where I was figuring stuff out and making incremental improvements to my character. If you're not in to that sort of thing then I don't think it will ever be fun for you. Even 40 hours later.

Nah, I like that stuff. Have you seen my time put into Demon's and Dark Souls? I like figuring out stuff on my own and slowly becoming a badass.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I found what I think was the thing I was supposed to kill, and I kept whacking at it for a while but I eventually died. Is there a way to see the health of the boss somewhere? I hit it a whole bunch of times, and it flashed when I did so I know it registered, but I'm not sure if there's any way to know if I'm making progress.

Monster Hunter has a pretty elegant approach to health, which is that the creatures will exhibit physically whether or not they're hurt. If you manage to damage a leg it might limp, you hit it enough times on the tail and you will cleave it clean off. The Monster can become tired, poisened, hurt etc but it's all inferred by looking at the creature and how it's behaving. Which I think is pretty cool.

[TrueNerd]

I just got through trying this out on 3DS. My first exposure to this franchise. Based on this demo, I never want to play a Monster Hunter game ever again. The small segmented areas with loading times inbetween each of them killed me. Absolutely killed me.

I'm glad it's apparently not indicative of what the game actually is, but GodDAMN Capcom. This is some off-putting ****.

(Even if it's not indicative of the final game, even briefly playing this game without dual sticks is a BITCH.)

[Pixelated Pixies]

Have you seen my time put into Demon's and Dark Souls? I like figuring out stuff on my own and slowly becoming a badass.

There seems to be a strong contingent of Monster Hunter fans that really love the Souls games. Although I haven't played either Soul game I have heard that they offer a similar type of challenge and sense of reward to that offered by MH. Sounds like if you like one you might enjoy the other.

[Pixelated Pixies]

(Even if it's not indicative of the final game, even briefly playing this game without dual sticks is a BITCH.)

I haven't played the demo yet (I plan to try it later) but this was my worry as well. As I've said, I have only ever played Tri and the classic controller was ideal for that game. I know the history of the series on the PSP was less than ideal and that the series was not originally a dual stick game, but I honestly cannot imagine playing this kind of game without a second stick.

[pokepal148]

(Even if it's not indicative of the final game, even briefly playing this game without dual sticks is a BITCH.)

I haven't played the demo yet (I plan to try it later) but this was my worry as well. As I've said, I have only ever played Tri and the classic controller was ideal for that game. I know the history of the series on the PSP was less than ideal and that the series was not originally a dual stick game, but I honestly cannot imagine playing this kind of game without a second stick.

i dont have a cpp either annoyingly enough

update: the touch d-pad wasn't too bad honestly im suprised,

[pokepal148]

A well designed game shouldn't take forty hours to get good. That isn't a phrase that makes me want to get the game.

the first time i played it was online and i faced a Royal Ludruth(pretty sure thats the name im not sure) and i just got my ass kicked...

but it wasn't BS. it was me making stupid choices. the game doesn't give much for a tutorial in the final game(there is one for offline as you go) and you have to learn these things yourself

the game is really about observation and learning your playstyle (and mistakes)

its about learning your playstyle and then how to build your character around that imo. my playstyle probably fits the dual swords better then what was available in tri
but observation is also a huge key which tri introduced alot of things to help use that to learn how the monster is doing health-wise (limping when it gets really low) but it also has a stamina gauge that when depleted causes it to go off and prey on weaker monsters(some have certain attacks they will use on you) and you can see this when the monster starts drooling...

get the wii u version first and use offline to learn the controls and then use online to learn what the game will throw at you and gather some materials

[ejamer]

Monster Hunter won't appeal to everyone. There is a steep learning curve, and the instant gratification that many gamers adore is non-existent here. Demos throw you right into the action -- nice for people with previous experience since they can sample the different weapons and see a few low-level monsters, but incredibly unfair to people who haven't tried the game before.


However, there are reasons why Monster Hunter has a fervent following:

• The game is heavily skill-based. Anyone who likes overcoming a challenge and working towards a true sense of mastery should find it very appealing. Practice makes perfect has never been more true, but it's incredibly empowering at the same time.
• One of the best group-play experiences I've had the pleasure of trying with excellent online play.
• Extremely deep, with a crafting system that offers tremendous flexibility over character customization (appearance and abilities) and radically different combat styles depending on the chosen weapon.

Monster Hunter is a game that grows on you. It's enjoyable after the first hour or so once most of the low level tutorials are over, but only continues to improve for hundreds of hours afterwards.

[ejamer]

A well designed game shouldn't take forty hours to get good. That isn't a phrase that makes me want to get the game.

This depends entirely on how much depth/skill you want to be involved.

Basketball shouldn't take 40 hours to get good at. Why am I not in the NBA yet?
Counter-Strike shouldn't take 40 hours to get good at. Oops, died again in the first 20 seconds.
Chess shouldn't take 40 hours to get good at. Am I a grandmaster yet?

The idea that you should be able to master something everything in a very short time is very odd to me. Why should all games be simple avenues of instant gratification?

[Oblivion]

What? I wasn't even talking about mastering the game and how ood I'd be at it. I'm talking about being fun whatsoever. I don't have to master basketball to enjoy it.

[Ceric]

From my Twitter:

So the Monster Hunter Demo...
Easy is putting someone who never drived in an F1 Racer and putting them against the bottom 1/4 ranked cars. Easy for an F1 racer.
Hard is putting someone who hasn't driven in a NASCAR and putting them against the against 10-20 ranked cars.
Needless to say a typical Monster Hunter Demo. Really would it kill them to have easy be the Great Jaggi w/ explanations?

I think a better demo would be:

Easy:
Choose a weapon with descriptions.
Description of how to use the weapon with a quick tutorial.
Choose an Armor with Pros and Cons in regards to the weapon and Monster.
Choose Item load with Pros and Cons in regards to the map and Monster.
Quick Map Tutorial and Movement Tutorial.  (In the demo the Pre-Paintball the target so you can tell where they are in the Mini-Map)
Monster is a REAL starting Monster.  A Great Jaggi or maybe a Royal Ludroth.

Med-Easy:
Like above but a kill X little creatures.

Medium:
Like above but with Killer Bunny.

Hard:
Like the actual demo.  Premade sets.

The demo is like the Colliseum type challenges and those are just hard because you get no choice in equipment and loadout on those.  Also in the case of the demo good idea what the equipment benifits are, like the lance and dual swords are Para weapons in the Demo.

Monster Hunter won't appeal to everyone. There is a steep learning curve, and the instant gratification that many gamers adore is non-existent here. Demos throw you right into the action -- nice for people with previous experience since they can sample the different weapons and see a few low-level monsters, but incredibly unfair to people who haven't tried the game before.


However, there are reasons why Monster Hunter has a fervent following:

• The game is heavily skill-based. Anyone who likes overcoming a challenge and working towards a true sense of mastery should find it very appealing. Practice makes perfect has never been more true, but it's incredibly empowering at the same time.
• One of the best group-play experiences I've had the pleasure of trying with excellent online play.
• Extremely deep, with a crafting system that offers tremendous flexibility over character customization (appearance and abilities) and radically different combat styles depending on the chosen weapon.

Monster Hunter is a game that grows on you. It's enjoyable after the first hour or so once most of the low level tutorials are over, but only continues to improve for hundreds of hours afterwards.

I agree.  I didn't get Tri until AFTER reading almost waht 60 pages of the Monster Hunter page here on the forums.  I know it would have been earlier if someone would have told me this is PSO w/ Crafting and Monsters...

[MrPhishfood]

As a demo for new players its terrible. There is no tutorial, you aren't shown the full range of moves for your chosen weapon, what the stuff on the HUD means. Weapon sharpness and using the whetstone... I could go on and on.

As a sneak peek for veteran monster hunters its fine.

You won't know if you really like it unless you get the full game where you are slowly groomed in to the most bad ass hunter of monsters this world has ever seen.

I'm a big Monster Hunter fan and I think Capcom are doing themselves a huge disservice by not making a more noob friendly demo.

(Even if it's not indicative of the final game, even briefly playing this game without dual sticks is a BITCH.)

This threw me off as well. BUT!! When you spot the monster the icon in the lower right of the touchscreen will change to that of the monster. Tap this icon and a crosshair will appear over the icon. Now whenever you tap the L button the camera will center on the monster.

[Ceric]

As a demo for new players its terrible. There is no tutorial, you aren't shown the full range of moves for your chosen weapon, what the stuff on the HUD means. Weapon sharpness and using the whetstone... I could go on and on.

As a sneak peek for veteran monster hunters its fine.

You won't know if you really like it unless you get the full game where you are slowly groomed in to the most bad ass hunter of monsters this world has ever seen.

I'm a big Monster Hunter fan and I think Capcom are doing themselves a huge disservice by not making a more noob friendly demo.

Yeah, Capcom should relable these as "Veteran Sneek Peaks"
I've "beaten" Tri with the help of Maxi and Mop-It-Up but, I found the Bunny to be ... Harder then the Hard monster.  The Plesioth not being overly hard.  Just having more health then I could deal with in the time limit.  Just need to find the right weapon combo.

[ejamer]

What? I wasn't even talking about mastering the game and how ood I'd be at it. I'm talking about being fun whatsoever. I don't have to master basketball to enjoy it.

I misunderstood - but the point is still relevant.

Bastketball (or any sport) isn't much fun when you don't know the rules, can't hit a shot, and lose every game. Want to change that? Learn the rules and then practice a little bit.

Chess isn't much fun when you don't know how your weapons.. er.. pieces move and interact with the enemy. But once you master the basics, the game is very enjoyable for most people.

Understanding how some activity works and having some base level of skill (often but not always obtained through practice) makes that activity inherently more enjoyable for most people. So the question becomes how long it takes for Monster Hunter to become acceptably enjoyable...


In my opinion, Monster Hunter is very good very early into the game. You don't need to play for 40 hours before expecting a payoff - just don't expect the payoff to come when (a) you haven't learned the basics and a half-baked demo throws you into the deep end before teaching you to swim, or (b) you haven't finished early quests that are very obviously intended as simple tutorials.

The first hour or two of Monster Hunter isn't that exciting. That time is spent like a tutorial, giving you access to one or more weapons you'll learn to use, interacting with local flora and fauna, and getting a lay of the land where you'll be hunting. The next 100+ hours just keep getting better as your character becomes better equipped your skills honed, and the challenges asked of you become more exacting.

As a personal note, I was able to get into and enjoy Monster Hunter games much quicker than recent Zelda games or Okami. And by the end, I felt much more empowered than in either of those series.