Topic: Nintendo Needs to Stop Caring About What Other People Think

[smallsharkbigbite]

i think its funny that alone the nintendo 3ds has sold way more 3ds's in 3 years than sony sold ps3's in 6 years.for all the bad comments that are to come its true look it up yourselfs, lol.nintendo needs to stop thinking bout everyone else.

Just to clarify, that is Japan only.  The PS3 has sold much more globally in 6 years than the 3DS in 3.  The 3DS is also in a different position than the Wii U.  The 3DS is the defacto handheld.  The Vita has sold about as much as the Wii U despite being out much longer.  The 3DS gets most of the good 3rd party handheld games.  Okay, so it doesn't have a new Madden.  Excluding first party games, the 3DS still owns the Vita in software support which is a big reason it's still so popular.

I am not sure where to put this but if one thing about the Wii U that needs a price cut it is the Pro controller. Nintendo needs to cut that thing down to $29.99 and let more people purchase them. This way more third parties can just port over their games and use only the pro controller.

Really doubt this can happen.  I wouldn't complain since I don't have a pro yet, but the pro is essentially a gamecube controller with bluetooth.  The gamecube controller sold for $34.99 and bluetooth is like $15.  So they are right in the expected range.

[Adrock]

Oh god, I would LOVE this. Could you imagine all of the poo that would go flying? Internet AND IRL? Oh my.

Do it, Nintendo. DO IT.

I was half-joking, but when you think about it, it's the ultimate "statement" deal. It instantly boosts the console to relevance. It gives Wii U a major yearly exclusive. It forces football fans to pay attention to the platform or go without an NFL game for almost an entire generation. It's Nintendo's way of stepping up to the plate for their own hardware and sticking it to EA who simply refuses to meet them halfway on anything and is still butthurt over the Origin thing. At this point, 3rd parties would (even begrudgingly) have to reconsider supporting Wii U because Nintendo would have just undeniably scooped up a major demographic or at least the potential for it. To make this extra trollish, Nintendo could even make a deal with 2K Games to brand the football sim NFL 2KXX. They have everything to gain from this because EA had the NFL license for the last 37 years. That would strengthen Nintendo's relationship with a major publisher too.

The problem with sports sims is that they quickly lose value and it makes no sense to rerelease them which are 2 things Nintendo isn't too keen on. However, it would stand to greatly benefit Wii U while simultaneously harming their competitors in the North American market. Nintendo cares more about Japan, but this could lead to a domino effect. I'm not much of a football fan; I just think this could be one of the biggest trolls ever which, as a Wii U owner on the side not getting trolled, would be worth it just see all the football fans whining then buying Wii U consoles.

[shingi_70]

The NFL wouldn't go for it.


When I think we have all came to the conclusion that Nintendo will never get proper third party support and will be treated as am after though. My problem is why hasn't Nintendo started to build up new first party development studios when the Wii U was first announced. One of nintendo's biggest problems is they lack good western studios. Sony of all people have shown that if you start to build up studios and acquire the ones your close with that it page out in the long run. Microsoft has also tasted that sweet taste after Building 343i and has ramped up building studios all over the world like crazy.

Why hasn't Nintendo looking at this try and reach out start building studios in North America as well as Europe. Are they afraid over lack of control or something. Also picking up smaller studios they have good relations with would be key (shi'en, Way forward, Renegadge kid.

quote] So the big topic in the Nintendo Community this past week has been Nintendo's relationship with third party developers something which has been a recurring theme since the days of the Nintendo 64.  One of the big things I think Nintendo has excelled at is getting indie developers to praise their system and develop for it.

We all know that this  past generation generation online storefronts have become pretty integral with what we have come to expect with consoles. The Nintendo eshop on the Wii U had a pretty damn good launch with a nice mix of Original titles and ports of Older games.






One of Iwata's main promises was to work with third party developers on exclusive games to help carry the load as Nintendo has entered the era of HD development. We have this promise on a much larger AAA scale with the like of Atlus's Shin Megami Tensi X Fire Emblem, Twp high profile projects from Platinum Games in The Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2. We have also seen Nintendo as a whole on a smaller scale being more receptive to projects such as Acckatudio's Two Brothers and Pier Solar HD.





One of things I noticed about Nintendo Versus Microsoft and Sony in this regard is that Nintendo hasn't actually partnered with that many their party/2nd party developers. The bulk of their development is still in house for the most part. Whereas Microsoft and Sony alongside their current first party developers have no problem contracting or funding games from other developers. Usually they keep the IP and form a working relationship with that Developer for sometime to come.



One of the blogger things both companies have started are incubation programs within their various studios,  Sony Santa Monica has been running a program for star up developers for a few years now. Sony reserves space inside of the studio for smaller developers to work on their games and shares resources with the main larger studio. So far this has worked out pretty well for Sony having quite a few developers in the program but having the two of note being thatgamescompany and Giant Sparrow.



Microsoft too has recently started a incubation program. Their newest studio Lift London helmed by Lee Schuneman is working on its own project as well as housing a smaller indie studio call Dlala games to work on their own project as well.



So with this in mind is this something Nintendo should start consider doing to gain more mind share and development in western markets. Take Nintendo's two american interest. Nintendo Software Technology is based in Redmond and until 2010 shared a building with Digipen. Why not set a up a small group for the schools gradutes and have them work at NST making smaller eshop games for a year. The same could be said for a studio like Retro. Take a smaller developer like Renegade Kidd and have them work inside of Rwtro's building using those resources to make games with an exclusive contract for a certain number of games.

So what are your thoughts on how Nintendo could increase its output. Have studios incubate smaller devs, purchase more studios, [/quote]

[Spak-Spang]

As much as I agree with the idea that Nintendo needs to not hold back...but push aggressively in all areas to create a strong console...I feel it isn't self sustainable.


For instance, Nintendo only has limited resources...it can't push out the quantity of products needed for them to provide enough support to go it alone...even if they are not going it truly alone, but just in principle. 


I don't think Nintendo could release a new game every other month and have a holiday season of 2-3 killer games prepared for Christmas for basically 2 systems.  If Nintendo could do that I believe they should. 


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An alternative to that could simply be Nintendo needs to embrace their virtual console and eshop more.  Do not hold back.  Have blow out weeks releasing 10 games a time.  Go hardcore on digital games, creating unique eshop Nintendo indie products to sell.  Push for releasing the most product of significant quality that you can.  And do not hold back franchises or experimental games, or new IPs.  Look at each console as your last chance to get your ideas and your dream game released to the market.


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Now this argument could work next generation if Nintendo fused the console and home market into one device.  Imagine a device that could be your portable system and dock and be your console.  It works with the Wii motes, Wii U tablet, and all Wii devices.  It could be called Wii Go.  And literally would be the new portable and console system. 


That would allow Nintendo to put all their portable gaming teams and console gaming teams working together to create great games.  Nintendo could easily then release the quality and quantity of games needed for them to go it alone, and would allow Nintendo to within a year fill a library with all the genres needed for a system. 


If I knew I could own a single Nintendo system and get 12 Nintendo games a year for this system, that is the only system I would need, or even want. 

[Khushrenada]

Man, I only see this as a problem if a person does nothing but play video games. But for me, there's way so many games for me to play and keep up with in addition to other things one can do with their free time.

Personally, I have TV shows I watch regularly. In the past 3-4 years, I've been watching a ton of movies and increasing my cinematic knowledge and appreciation of that art form. I started a supper club with some friends of mine where we go out and try new restaurants in our city at least once a month. Plus, I like to do some cooking myself and trying out new recipes and ideas. I've always liked and been interested in break dancing so lately I've been spending time learning that. I'm getting close to being able to do a head spin which is awesome. Just need to work on my balance a bit more. Last year, I bought an electric guitar and a bass guitar at a garage sale and I want to start learning how to play those. As well, I do a lot of reading and decided to start reading through the encyclopedia and further increase my knowledge.

Whenever I see all these threads complaining about a lack of games being released or how third parties aren't bring games over, I'm rather thankful since I've bought more than enough games to play through already and it helps delude me into thinking that maybe I can catch up in my backlog after all. Or at least feel better in not falling further behind. Quite honestly, my reaction to a lot of this complaining is to broaden out your interests into other pursuits.

[UncleBob]

I've always liked and been interested in break dancing so lately I've been spending time learning that.

...

[EasyCure]

i went home to visit family and found my cousin trying to learn to breakdance via youtube tutorials...

[Caterkiller]

Man, I only see this as a problem if a person does nothing but play video games. But for me, there's way so many games for me to play and keep up with in addition to other things one can do with their free time.

Personally, I have TV shows I watch regularly. In the past 3-4 years, I've been watching a ton of movies and increasing my cinematic knowledge and appreciation of that art form. I started a supper club with some friends of mine where we go out and try new restaurants in our city at least once a month. Plus, I like to do some cooking myself and trying out new recipes and ideas. I've always liked and been interested in break dancing so lately I've been spending time learning that. I'm getting close to being able to do a head spin which is awesome. Just need to work on my balance a bit more. Last year, I bought an electric guitar and a bass guitar at a garage sale and I want to start learning how to play those. As well, I do a lot of reading and decided to start reading through the encyclopedia and further increase my knowledge.

Whenever I see all these threads complaining about a lack of games being released or how third parties aren't bring games over, I'm rather thankful since I've bought more than enough games to play through already and it helps delude me into thinking that maybe I can catch up in my backlog after all. Or at least feel better in not falling further behind. Quite honestly, my reaction to a lot of this complaining is to broaden out your interests into other pursuits.

This kind of statement is precisely why it's so easy for me to only own Nintendo systems, I just constantly keep up with other things and Pokemon Black/2 just keeps on giving. When Ian says he feels sorry for guys like me, the Nintendo only owner, I feel sorry people who act like all their free time is devoted to every single AAA release from other systems.

With that being said it could only benefit everyone if Nintendo could have companies releasing things at a steady pace with no 5+ month gaps. Doesn't matter if I personally don't care when a game makes it, as long as it makes it(Rayman being a special case) I'm good. But for the greater good a steady release of titles does no harm and nothing but good for us consumers.

Sometimes Nintendo's teams release games very close to each other within even the same month. Or release one of theirs very close to a major 3rd party game on darn near the same day. One of the biggest examples I bring up often is F-Zero GX being sent out to die against the likes of Soul Calibur 2 featuring Link. Not that I remember what came out soon after but if Nintendo and Sega just waited one more month or 2 to release F Zero I think it would have sold a bit better.  Of course once everyone had their fill of SC2 they could have just went out and got GX, but that's never how it works for most games and F Zero is not an ever green title.

A few of the games we've seen at the ND and the ones we only herd about have a good chance of coming out this year and I bet a few of them will come extremely close together cannabalizing another's sales.

[Khushrenada]

I've always liked and been interested in break dancing so lately I've been spending time learning that.

...

Heh. I know. That's what makes it so awesome. No one expects it and then I stun them. It's a great morale boost.

And to Easycure's post, (and it sounds silly to admit this) I took out some video's at the library on it. Makes me feel like Napolean Dynamite. But it is like a magic trick. You show people the result and not the work behind it and people think it is cool.

[EasyCure]

hey i don't care how you learned, more power too you because it isn't easy. good luck with guitar, let me know of you need pointers.

[Khushrenada]

You're right. It requires quite a bit of upper body strength which is good because I started working out and staying fit awhile ago and then stopped so it's helped get back into a routine and given me a new goal to reach.

[Ian Sane]

The title of this article is pretty funny since I would say Nintendo stopped caring what people think a LONG time ago and that's the reason they're in the mess they're in and have been the weirdo of the console industry for so long.

If Nintendo was to outright give up on third party support, why even make a system?  Why not just go third party then?  Even though Nintendo consoles are effectively Nintendo-only it would be dumb for such a system to exist if that was literally all it was.  I don't think the market would accept it either.  Stores wouldn't dedicate much shelf space to a system with so few games and it would have very little games even if Nintendo ramped up their output.  Remember also that kids and casuals are a big part of Nintendo's customerbase.  Having shitty Dora the Explorer games on the system seems useless to us but it looks good for parents of young kids to have such games on the system.  They may suck, but someone buys them.  For all the Wii's problems in terms of just sheer numbers the Wii section of a store never looked empty, just full of lots of crap in the eyes of a core gamer.

Now I would like Nintendo's output to be such that they appear aware that their third party support sucks.  They kind of seemed to know this on the N64.  You didn't get games too often but when you did it was a big one.  It was like they knew that everyone had waited for months for something to come out so "yeah, here's Ocarina of Time".  You didn't wait months and months for Excitebots or a glorified port of Animal Crossing.  The N64 also didn't really go dead until about six months before the Cube came out.  I wasn't thrilled at the time but that's NOTHING compared to virtually two years of drought ending the Cube and Wii.  2000 was the N64's second last year and that was one of the best years for that system with great games like Majora's Mask, Mario Tennis, Banjo-Tooie and Perfect Dark all coming out.

In the Iwata era it feels like Nintendo doesn't know to differentiate between good third party support and bad.  Like they figure "hey 8 games come out this month" and that's fine, even though they're all shovelware.  I would like it if Nintendo really appeared to know about this problem and would aim to fill the gaps themselves.  That's not really giving up on third party support but rather addressing the shortcomings of their console.  There shouldn't be multiple month gaps of nothing.  They shouldn't effectively abandon their consoles two years before they're replaced.  If there is a drought they shouldn't be all tightlipped about games that are due to come out.  We shouldn't get surprise releases like Excitebots.  If Nintendo was in tune with this they would recognize the drought and let us know about what's coming with time for us to build anticipation for it.  At least then you figure that they care.  You should never wonder when anything else worth a damn is coming out.  Even if you don't have games to play you should know there are games coming.  That recent Nintendo Direct did a good job of that actually.

And Nintendo should also address genres and styles that are not represented.  If the console is weak on FPS games then Nintendo should fill that gap.  Sticking to Mario side-scrollers the whole time is idiotic.  We have a million of those now, what about the types of games that Nintendo systems DON'T have?  Why do I need a Mario and a Donkey Kong and a Kirby and a Wario and a Yoshi sidescroller when I've got jack **** for FPS or fighting games or openworld GTA-style games?  Back in the 16 bit days Sega had to work very hard to compete with Nintendo and they very clearly filled in genre gaps themselves.  No Dragon Quest?  They create Phantasy Star.  No Final Fight?  They create Streets of Rage.  No Street Fighter II?  They create Eternal Champions.  No Mario?  They create Sonic.  See how that works?  There is a need on their console that no one else is addressing so they address it.  Nintendo doesn't do that.  They just give us some new Mario sports game.

Nintendo should work as hard as they can to make their userbase feel that they're not missing out on anything by only owning a Nintendo system.  The Sega Genesis and original Xbox are really good examples of systems that did not lead the market but made their userbase feel that way, and both systems created strong footholds for the companies that made them.

[Adrock]

@Ian

What the what?

1. Why not go 3rd party? Are you cereal? They would have to pay Sony/Microsoft licensing fees. Also, Sony's/Microsoft's principles are contrary to everything Nintendo stands for. Even without 3rd party support, Nintendo is still in charge of their own destiny and they don't have to answer to the whims of Sony and Microsoft. i can't believe this has to be explained to you. You might as well tell Apple, "Why not just make Windows PCs?"

2. Nintendo knows the difference between good and bad 3rd party support. They don't turn down shovelware because, ironically, it makes them look bad. This is lose-lose. That brings up terrible memories of the overbearing Nintendo that 3rd parties ditched in 1996. Nintendo doesn't know how to fix 3rd party relations without giving up their identity. Your solution (which seems to mirror many 3rd parties) seems to be, "Just be like Sony and Microsoft" which makes no sense because then they wouldn't be Nintendo anymore. I know you have an axe to grind against Nintendo because you feel they abandoned you, but that solution seriously sucks. No offense, but it does. The day Nintendo starts conducting business like Sony/MS is the day I stop being a Nintendo fan and probably a gamer. I'll take up a new hobby like cooking or pogs.

3. You get Mario, Kirby, and Yoshi sidescrollers because that's what those teams make. Do you really want a FPS from HAL Labs? That game would probably suck because they haven't the slightest clue how to make that kind of game.

4. Using Sega as an example isn't really helping your cause because Sega has been poorly managed since forever ago. It was nice that they addressed some of their console's deficiencies, but Nintendo still consistently outsold them. That's why Nintendo plays it safe. I know you say you don't care about sales and such and that's fine, but the fact of the matter is that Nintendo cares about that and they should because if they didn't, guess what? No more Nintendo. Why would Nintendo follow Sega's lead? If Sega ever had even the slightest idea what they were doing, they still be making consoles, not holding a decade-plus firesale on their artistic integrity.

[Ian Sane]

Adrock, I wouldn't say that because Sega ultimately failed that everything they did was wrong or that they never knew what they were doing.  They did know what they were doing (or at least Sega of America did) during the Genesis years and then lost it.  What if Nintendo went under?  Would we damn their entire history for it?  Clearly they at least knew what they were doing in the NES and SNES years.  Sega certainly did not fail because they made an effort to fill in genre gaps on the one system they had that was very successful.

And if all of Nintendo's teams know how to make sidescrollers, well they need to diversify their teams.  No publisher the size of Nintendo's should have multiple teams stuck in the same genre rut while whole other genres are completely ignored.  What should Nintendo do?  Stick with the same old stuff forever because that's what their teams are good at?  Obviously at some point EAD went from making 2D games to 3D games.  It isn't like they went into the 32/64 bit generation with the same 2D sidescrollers that were successful in the 16 bit gen.  They took risks and tried new things.  I don't need an FPS from HAL Labs because I'm sure that someone else could do a better job.  Retro could do a better job but their last game was a 2D sidescroller and they've got Good Feel and EAD working on those as well.  It makes no sense to have four teams working on the same type of game particularly when we know that Retro and EAD are perfectly capable of other genres.  It's just simple planning.  If you're thinking about a team's next project and you know another team is working on one type of game why would you start another project that is so similar?  It isn't like Nintendo historically has stuck to only a few genres.  We know that as a whole the company is capable of variety.

If Nintendo is screwed on third party support it is their responsibility to give their console a good selection of games.  That means they have to try to touch all demographics and all genres because that's what great consoles offer.  Of course the consoles that achieved that did so with third party support and I think that ultimately that's the real cure to all this.  But then if they do their best to fill in the release schedule themselves it should in theory attract more interest from the very customers that third parties wish to sell their games to and thus they might just start attracting better third party support.  At the end of the day it's all business and if a third party doesn't want to release their game on a Nintendo console it's because for whatever reason they do not think it will make money.

[pokepal148]

Park five really nice cars outside my house and I'll show you.

*sorry for the late response*
oh i see, like what i did with your mom last night