Topic: Sony Playstations: Are it Doomed?

[MagicCow64]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/sonys-game-division-loses-45-million-6389811

The bad news just keeps on raining on Sony, both company wide and specifically on the gaming division. I'm an old-school Sony-hater from the PS1 era, and, despite the fact that I'm now an adult and have dropped the console war mentality, I can't help but derive some schadenfreude from this gloomy parade of fate. They also seem to have shaken a good amount of fan faith with their handling of the hacking incident last year.

So in the face of this most recent profit report, how do people see things going for Sony next-gen? Do you think it's possible they'll sit out the PS4 for at least a few years? The Vita seems to be doing ominously badly as well; will they keep supporting it no matter how futile it as a viable competitor to the 3DS? I'm not sure it's possible for them to launch another console that takes the hit the PS3 did, without seriously tanking the company, Dreamcast style. Would this put more pressure on Sony to go light on the specs for the Orbis?

[Chozo Ghost]

I could compile a rather lengthy list of reasons why one should despise Sony, but I think the CD Rootkits and killing off the Dreamcast are probably reasons enough. I own a PS3, but I have no love for the company that makes it, nor what they've done and how they've treated consumers.

[S-U-P-E-R]

I'd like to say they were done, but I know they aren't. They have at least one more massive failure in 'em, I think.

[broodwars]

Well, the Entertainment Division should get a nice boost next quarter due to Amazing Spider-Man's success last month, so that'll help.  From everything I've read, Sony's gaming division was once again one of the least badly-performing divisions of the company, and I'll wager a great deal of that loss is the Vita.

Sony needs to get some developer support for the Vita, and they need to drop the price.  The Vita's a great handheld, IMO.  I enjoy the experience of playing games on it more than on my non-ergonomic 3DS, but right now I like the games so much more on the 3DS.  Sony has just committed boneheaded mistake after missed opportunity after unbelievable screw-up when it comes to handling the marketing and software support of that device, and at this point the damage done to that brand may be terminal.  Maybe Assassin's Creed 3: Liberation and the Vita Call of Duty game will give the handheld a much-needed shot in the arm in the West, but they need something on the caliber of Monster Hunter Exclusivity to get the Japanese excited.

As for the PlayStation 3, despite all the mistakes Sony has made with that console since launch (yes, including the hacking disaster last year), I really can't blame them for how the console sales have dipped.  Console sales in general have plummeted compared to last year.  And aside from the PS3's security, they've done just about everything quality-wise I could ask of them: PSN has evolved into a strong digital distribution and online gaming platform with a good selection of exclusives and sales, and there's plenty of software 1st party and otherwise that interests me.  But for whatever reason, Sony's best efforts rarely sell on the level of even a Microsoft 1st party title.  When you consider that meanwhile Nintendo tends to make money hand over fist with certain IMO significantly less interesting games extremely reliant on nostalgia, I don't know what Sony could do better in terms of software.

I think the PS4 is going to be the make-or-break device for Sony as a gaming company given what's happening with the Vita.  If they come out strong with a great selection of software; the hardware is reasonably priced; and there's no stupid B.S. with the marketing or accessories (like there is with the Vita and it's price-gouging memory cards), I think they can succeed (especially if they beat Microsoft to the market next-gen).  I hope they succeed, actually, because Sony has some very strong franchises under its belt, and they clearly have the studio talent to create strong new ones next generation.  But if the PS4 fails like the Vita has, Sony's probably done as a 1st party platform holder.

However, I do believe for Sony to recover that they're going to have to shed the dead weight from the other divisions.  This economy is showing no signs of recovering any time soon, so I doubt people are going to be buying expensive TVs/etc. like they did in the last few decades for a long time.  And in the meantime, that's just going to keep them in the Red.

[lolmonade]

Doomed?  I don't think so. 
 
I think Sony has made a string of bad decisions, but as Broodwars stated, I thought their gaming division was one of the few things doing reasonably well?
 
I'd love a Vita price drop to influence me to purchase it, but weren't we all Wowed not too long ago at the fact that it was going to launch at $250 (the same price at the time as 3DS)?  How much of a loss on each of those systems are they able to take?
 
I know this console generation has gone on longer than most, but I'm personally unconvinced we need new consoles from anyone other than Nintendo right now.  I'm not saying there aren't better graphics and processing power to be had, but I need to be shown more than better picture quality to convince me to spend $400+ on a new system.  There needs to be game experiences that I can't find on any other system.
 
 

[broodwars]

I'd love a Vita price drop to influence me to purchase it, but weren't we all Wowed not too long ago at the fact that it was going to launch at $250 (the same price at the time as 3DS)?  How much of a loss on each of those systems are they able to take?

I don't think the price of the actual Vita hardware is that bad, really.  Considering the size and quality of that screen along with its technical prowess, $250 is a pretty fair deal.  The real killer, though, is the additional price of the proprietary memory cards, with the largest being $100.  For $100 I should have gotten a lot more space than 32 GB, especially since with all my PSP games and a couple of digital Vita games that space is already gone and I've only had my Vita for just over 3 months.

I'd say they needed to just do a massive price drop on the memory cards, but unfortunately that's not sexy enough to generate hardware sales.  Only a double price cut on the Vita hardware (I'd say at least $50 to bring it down to the price of the 3DS XL) and the memory cards can do that.  And at this point, when their handheld is already tanking extremely hard with no recovery in sight, I don't think Sony has any other choice.

[ThePerm]

my brother used to be a 3dfx fanboy, these things happen. We had an older Sony Doom and Gloom thread. And I have to say that Sony going bankrupt only has positive implications. There are some good Sony game franchises that are good now, but those could go multiplatform if bought out. Spiderman would get a chance to be an avenger.

[broodwars]

I think SEGA's collapse into irrelevance shows that quite a lot of "negative implications" could come from Sony going 3rd party as they did.  Granted, Sony isn't as incompetently run as SEGA was (and is), but the way that SEGA's creative spirit just died after the Dreamcast should be a cautionary tale.  And Nintendo's legendarily horrendous business practices during the 80s and 90s easily show how much worse the industry could get with less competition in the marketplace.  I've said it before, but I like the trio of platform-holding companies we have right now and wouldn't want to see any of them drop out.

[shingi_70]

my brother used to be a 3dfx fanboy, these things happen. We had an older Sony Doom and Gloom thread. And I have to say that Sony going bankrupt only has positive implications. There are some good Sony game franchises that are good now, but those could go multiplatform if bought out. Spiderman would get a chance to be an avenger.

Saw no. One of the reason Sony games work so well is because its devs are used to working on its closed platform and coding to the metal.

And dear God don't let spiderman anywhere near the avengers. It barley works in the comics.

[MagicCow64]

Yeah, I guess I shouldn't have implied that their gaming division is leading their losses, but at this point it doesn't appear to be holding the line either. Mainly I think the topic has some renewed interest in the face of how badly Sony appears to be doing as a whole, and how that's going to affect next gen. Microsoft posted its first company-wide loss ever at nearly the same time, so I'm wondering how nervous the stock holders at these companies are becoming about risky console propositions, and how much of their emphasis on video games is driven by a weird sort of pissing contest over sound business fundamentals. This is all Nintendo's got, but Sony and Microsoft are huge companies with varied products and divisions. If the PS4 does as badly out of the gates as the PS3 did, I think the gaming division is in genuine danger of going tits up for the first time.

I was surprised, though, by the fact that the PS3 was able to play late-game catch-up with the Xbox 360, and that the PSP remained popular in Japan despite the silly and confusing iterations Sony released.

[Chozo Ghost]

(especially if they beat Microsoft to the market next-gen).

That's not going to happen. Of all the next-gen systems, the PS4 is the one we know the least about, which suggests that it is the one lagging the most behind in development. Its not like we're hearing all that much about the NeXbox420 either, but we certainly are hearing more rumors and whisperings about that than the PS4.

I think at best the PS4 could hit the market around the same time as the 420, or maybe only a little afterwards, but there's absolutely no way it could launch ahead of it... especially not by any significant amount of time that would make a difference. I foresee a holiday 2013 release for the 420. How could the PS4 beat that?

[Ceric]

For Sony and Microsoft there is a lot of value in the name recognition given by there gaming division.  Sony probably more than Microsoft but it keeps them as household names

[Shaymin]

From everything I've read, Sony's gaming division was once again one of the least badly-performing divisions of the company, and I'll wager a great deal of that loss is the Vita.

Just sayin'.

[Ceric]

But is trending back to Zero Post Vita in that graph at a relatively good clip.

[Chozo Ghost]

The Vita setback is only temporary. We hear this same crap every time anyone releases a new handheld or system (except the Wii). The 3DS struggled in its early months, as did the PSP, and as did the DS in their early days. People said all those things were doomed at the time, but they turned around eventually. It might take months or even years, but the Vita probably will as well.

[broodwars]

The Vita setback is only temporary. We hear this same crap every time anyone releases a new handheld or system (except the Wii). The 3DS struggled in its early months, as did the PSP, and as did the DS in their early days. People said all those things were doomed at the time, but they turned around eventually. It might take months or even years, but the Vita probably will as well.

Not unless Sony and especially 3rd parties start announcing games for the thing.  The Vita isn't dead yet, but I think it definitely will be if Sony has a repeat of their E3 performance and doesn't have any big announcements at this year's E3.  The Vita's existing library is actually pretty good IMO, but there obviously hasn't been a game yet most prospective Vita-owners would consider "hardware purchase-worthy", and current Vita owners like me want to see that the handheld has a future.

[TJ Spyke]

From everything I've read, Sony's gaming division was once again one of the least badly-performing divisions of the company, and I'll wager a great deal of that loss is the Vita.

Just sayin'.

Maybe it's the inner-child in me, but I chuckled when I saw "pos-Vita".

Chozo, can't really blame Sony for Dreamcast failing. Sony had better marketing, just by ANNOUNCING the PS2 and some of its features (even if they were not being 100% truthful with the specs), they pretty much cut off the legs of the DC.

[lolmonade]

I'd love a Vita price drop to influence me to purchase it, but weren't we all Wowed not too long ago at the fact that it was going to launch at $250 (the same price at the time as 3DS)?  How much of a loss on each of those systems are they able to take?

I don't think the price of the actual Vita hardware is that bad, really.  Considering the size and quality of that screen along with its technical prowess, $250 is a pretty fair deal.  The real killer, though, is the additional price of the proprietary memory cards, with the largest being $100.  For $100 I should have gotten a lot more space than 32 GB, especially since with all my PSP games and a couple of digital Vita games that space is already gone and I've only had my Vita for just over 3 months.

I'd say they needed to just do a massive price drop on the memory cards, but unfortunately that's not sexy enough to generate hardware sales.  Only a double price cut on the Vita hardware (I'd say at least $50 to bring it down to the price of the 3DS XL) and the memory cards can do that.  And at this point, when their handheld is already tanking extremely hard with no recovery in sight, I don't think Sony has any other choice.

I agree that the price seems reasonable to me based on the quality of the machine, I'm just a cheapass (especially since I got burned for buying a 3DS at the same price). 
 
I was only commenting that price is the primary reason I won't buy it right now.  The value proposition just isn't there for me right now, especially considering all you've mentioned above regarding the ridiculous prices for proprietary memory on top of the system cost.
 

[Ceric]

Yep, Vita total cost of ownership is to high for me right now.

[Lithium]

its refreshing to see that Nintendo isn't the only one that's "TEH DOOMED"

[pokepal148]

dont forget how well the xperia play has done and that has playstation involvement also

[Chozo Ghost]

If the Vita were as "homebrew" friendly as the PSP was, people would buy it.

[NWR_insanolord]

There were at one time ways to activate the same kind of homebrew the PSP had using the PSP backward compatibility. Sony actually pulled a couple of old games from the PSN store because they had vulnerabilities that allowed this kind of thing. I haven't looked at it recently, so I'm not sure about the current state of it.

[BranDonk Kong]

PSVita has tons of exploits that let you run homebrew...but what's the point of buying a PS Vita to run PSP homebrew? Every time you see a software update (I hate when people call it firmware) for the system, it's basically patching a hole that lets one of the games exploit the system (and then the game gets pulled from the network, patched, and re-released). Luckily SONY is too stupid to figure out the exploit first, so every single time they do this, a developer announces yet another game that can exploit the system.

Still, the PSVita is probably doomed already (and always has been). I've never seen someone using one, ever, but everywhere I go there's someone (usually several) with a DSi or 3DS.

[NWR_insanolord]

I wouldn't buy one just to do that, but if you've already got one, as I do, why not check that stuff out?