Topic: Western Developers That Should Develope Future Metroid Titles

[Kytim89]

As we all know the Metroid series has witnessed a high and low period in its tenure as a major Nintendo franchise. After a small hiatus on the N64, Retro Studios brought the Metroid series into the realm of the FPS with their Metroid Prime series. This revered series was followed up with the well developed, but lukewarm recepted, Metroid: Other M, which was not developed by a Western studio. With the less than stellar reputation of Other M, the Metroid series is tainted in the eyes of long time fans and the fututre of the series is in question. However, since the Metrod games seem to do better with Western game makes, here is a list of developers that should work on future Metroid games:
 
Wayforward:
 
The developers of Shante and Might Switch Force wouuld make a perfect fit for a 2D Metroid game for the 3DS and Wii U. Wayforward's track record with developing competent 2D side scrollers would make them the jewel in Nintendo's 2D Metroid crown. All of the experience they garnered developing the various 2D titles they have in their repoitore when married to the resources of Nintendo would make any Metroid game made by them a sought after product by long time fans of the franchise.
 
Wayforward would also be a perfect fit for a remake of Metroid 2 for the eShop. For the same reason as a brand new 2D metroid game, if Wayforward remade Metroid 2 with the resources of the 3DS in mind then another very well made title would be avaible to Metroid fans.
 
Mercury Steam:
 
A second western developer that would be a good fit for a Metroid game would be Mercury Steam. The Spainish developer who remade the Castlevania univers with Lords of Shadow would be perfect for a revitalization of the Metroid series. Mercury Steam could make a fully third person Metroid game that plays in a similar manner to the Uncharted series, but with the visuals and charatcer animations of their recent Castlevania games. The quality of Lords of Shadow proves that they could make a good Metroid game if Nintendo gave them the chance.
 
GearBox:
 
The third and fianl western developer that would be a perfect pick for developing a future Metroid game would be Gearbox. Gearbox has made several good FPSs over the years, and if the Metroid Prime series were to be continued then they might very well make a good successor to Retro Studios in the game series that they helped to establish. This would be higly likely considering the business that has been going on between both Gearbox and Nintendo. Also, the developers at Gearbox have expressed their love for the Wii numerous times, so it stands to reason that Nintendo might choose them to make a Metroid Prime 4, and allow Retro Studios to work on something else, such as a new IP.
 
 

[S-U-P-E-R]

Alternatively: none of them

[broodwars]

Other than Retro, I don't know if I'd want any Western 3rd Party "big game" (i.e. "not a downloadable-focused or Indie developer") developer touching Metroid, but I could see Wayforward or Mercury Steam doing good work with series.  Mercury Steam would have to learn how to design faster combat, though, for them to create a good Metroid game.  I like Lords of Shadow, but the game is noticeably more deliberately paced than even the Metroid Prime games.  Come to think of it, EA's Visceral Studios (Dead Space) seems to have the outer space setting and gunplay down pretty well, so they could be an interesting candidate as well.

Going into the realm of fantasy, I'd love to see a 1st party company like Naughty Dog or Sucker Punch take a crack at Metroid.  Microsoft's 343 Industries seems to be practically already making a Metroid Prime game with Halo 4, so they could be a good pick as well.  But like I said, that's pure fantasy since they are 1st party developers on competing platforms.

[Pixelated Pixies]

I've always thought that Watforward have the chops to make a really great Metroid game. They've proven that they're amongst the best when it comes to 2D art with games like A Boy And His Blob, while games like Contra 4 and Mighty Switch Force have shown that they understand how to handle fast paced action and shooting. I also feel that Risky's Revenge and Aliens: Infestation (although much smaller projects than a Metroid game) are proof that the guys at Wayforward are fans of the Metroid series, and for me that's crucial.

[Chozo Ghost]

How about Rocksteady? 

[Ian Sane]

There are two teams that have done Metroid right: the original Japanese Nintendo team led by Sakamoto and Retro Studios.  Sakamoto seems to have contracted George Lucas Disease so I don't want him touching the franchise.  So Retro is it.  I really don't want anyone else making Metroid games.

For me what really matters with a creative work is the talent behind it.  We got lucky with Retro because they really delivered but they could easily have screwed it all up.  I don't need to play Metroid games for the rest of my life.  It would be nice but if some substandard dev was working on it or it was just going through the motions, what's the point?  It's not like we NEED someone to work on Metroid games.  I would like the series to end on a higher note than Other M, but it doesn't have to last forever and we don't need to pass it off from dev todev to keep it alive.  I don't have a problem with a videogame series having its time in the sun and then "retiring".

[Chozo Ghost]

Ian, after the severe disappointment that was Other M I don't really worry about the Metroid franchise being tarnished anymore. Its ALREADY been tarnished, and when something hits rock bottom it can't really sink any lower. There is no risk because it really can't get any worse than what Other M was. Worst case scenario is we end up with two terrible Metroid games, but its still worth trying.

If nothing else, at least Other M was great Meme material. Doesn't that count for something? If Nintendo takes a risk and gives some random studio the reigns of the Metroid franchise we may end up with another shitty Metroid, but they might also strike gold too. You simply never know unless you take the chance. And even if its Other M 2.0 at least we have something to make fun of and laugh about how awful it is, so it wouldn't be all bad. Its just like those CDi Zelda games that are universally hated, yet they are a popular meme nonetheless. Sometimes things can be so unintentionally terrible that they are actually good (in a way).

But one thing I did learn from Other M is never blindly preorder a Metroid game at full price ever again. I would wait a few days/weeks after release to see what people say first. If the game is **** and isn't selling then the price will plummet and then I can just get it out of the bargain bin at rock bottom price. I wouldn't be hating on Other M as much as I do if I hadn't paid full price for it. I don't think the game is a total failure, but I wouldn't have wanted to pay more than a budget price for it.

[Kytim89]

How about Rocksteady? 

My dream Metroid game would be a third person action game with a template similar to that of Batman: Arkham City, Lords of Shadow and Uncharted. The game would be a reboot of the Metroid franchise, or its equivalent to Batman Begins.

[Ian Sane]

Other M isn't rock bottom.  A whole series of Other M's to the point that that is the "normal" design for a Metroid game is rock bottom.  It's like how with Sonic the problem wasn't that Sonic Heroes was a bad game, it was that all Sonic games after that were crap.  It wasn't just a mistep or one bad title but a whole series of them to the point that the whole brand is associated with crap.  I would rather tell kids of future "did you know about this series called Metroid?" then to tell them "did you know that Metroid used to be GOOD?"

[Ceric]

I wouldn't mind something in the Metroid Universe but, I don't think I'm ready for another Metroid game.

[Kairon]

Yeah... whenever I get depressed as a Nintendo fan all I need to do is look at Sega and think "There but for the grace of God go I..."

[Kytim89]

If Nintendo worked on a 3D Metroid fgame with Mercury Steam, and a 2D Metroid game with Wayforward, then those games would kick so much ass.

[Chozo Ghost]

A whole series of Other M's to the point that that is the "normal" design for a Metroid game is rock bottom.

Considering how disappointed Nintendo was in Other M's sales, I think they got the message that people didn't like the direction Sakamoto took with it and they would know better than to repeat that again. That's not to say there couldn't still be terrible Metroid games, but I think it would be in different ways and for different reasons than Other M was. Like for example the prolonged CGI cutscenes I don't think we will be seeing again if nothing else just because they were very costly, not to mention fans didn't like them because of how long and boring they were and with terrible dialog and Samus crying and so on. I think we can bet that those CGI scenes will be gone. Without those, even Sakamoto probably couldn't **** up what's left too much.

[Ian Sane]

With all the talk about Retro possibly making a Zelda game I thought of the suggestion of Retro making a Zelda game and Aonuma's EAD team making a Metroid.  I'll go for that.  Don't know if it would be any good but it would be worth a shot.  The two series are similar enough that neither team would be in over their heads.

Hell Nintendo could probably get some good mileage out of the concept of their teams working on different franchises than they're used to.  It could freshen up their old IP... or be a complete disaster.

[Kytim89]

With all the talk about Retro possibly making a Zelda game I thought of the suggestion of Retro making a Zelda game and Aonuma's EAD team making a Metroid.  I'll go for that.  Don't know if it would be any good but it would be worth a shot.  The two series are similar enough that neither team would be in over their heads.

Hell Nintendo could probably get some good mileage out of the concept of their teams working on different franchises than they're used to.  It could freshen up their old IP... or be a complete disaster.

In Nintendo's eyes the Metroid series is most likely between the position of being stuffed in the back burner again like during the N64 era, or relegated to no other developer than those of the west. If we do get another Metroid game in the near future, it will not be developed by Nintendo's Japanese resources. They have too much on their plate to chew the fat with Metroid.
 
This is a side issue, but Aonuma's EAD team is most likely gearing up for a major Zelda title for the 3DS. Since the Japanese gaming industry is centered on handhelds the 3DS will get the brunt of their attention. I would not be suprised, however, that Retro did co-develope the next home console Zelda for the Wii U.
 
 

[Shaymin]

Alternatively: none of them

I'll get my paddle.

[MagicCow64]

Other M isn't rock bottom.  A whole series of Other M's to the point that that is the "normal" design for a Metroid game is rock bottom.  It's like how with Sonic the problem wasn't that Sonic Heroes was a bad game, it was that all Sonic games after that were crap.  It wasn't just a mistep or one bad title but a whole series of them to the point that the whole brand is associated with crap.  I would rather tell kids of future "did you know about this series called Metroid?" then to tell them "did you know that Metroid used to be GOOD?"

I'd go so far to say that Sonic Adventure (maybe 2) established a fundamentally broken architecture that Sega never managed to veer away from. I gave Colors a shot based on its positive reception, but it didn't feel significantly different than previous efforts to me, other than being streamlined. People concentrated so much criticism on the mech/combat/werehog levels, that I think the "fast" stages got a pass, when they're really only good comparatively.

By way of that, I think Other M gave us a pretty decent glimpse of what a 3rd person Metroid is going to feel like in the hands of most developers, and it's best to stay far away from that until someone can totally rethink it from the ground up. Right now the options are classic 2D style (verified great!) which I don't see Nintendo doing with the 3DS or the First Person Adventure style (verified great!), but I really doubt anyone would want to follow Retro with that, and Retro clearly has had its fill (which is fine).

I'm kind of leaning toward putting Metroid away for another decade chill. I don't think we're going to top Super Metroid/Zero Mission on the 2D front, and I don't think we're going to top Metroid Prime1/3 on the FPA front. And 3rd person is tainted, if not simply unworkable (in the sense of AAA success).

[Chozo Ghost]

By way of that, I think Other M gave us a pretty decent glimpse of what a 3rd person Metroid is going to feel like in the hands of most developers,

Long poorly dialoged CGI cutscenes, over emotional crying Samus, Where's Waldo pixel hunts, weapons which are already available but must first be authorized, a terrible control scheme which requires Samus to stand still while under enemy fire in order to use missiles, and so on...  are you serious when you say this is how a 3rd person Metroid would be done by "most developers"?

Some of those things might have been done by some developers, but I strongly disagree that all of those would have been done by most. I don't know how much of the blame should go to Sakamoto and how much should go to Team Ninja, but it seems to me this was some rare shitty combination which thankfully doesn't happen very often, and hopefully never again with Metroid.

A 3rd person Metroid game DOES have potential, and I don't think the whole idea should be canned just because Other M was a failure. Other M failed for various reasons, but the 3rd person perspective wasn't one of them. There are no doubt developers out there that would screw it up, but my feeling is that if a developer would screw up a 3rd person Metroid they would probably screw up a 1st person one as well. A quality developer could pull off a quality Metroid, regardless of the perspective, but a second rate developer is going to give you a second rate Metroid... and apparently Team Ninja is a second rate developer.

Having Other M being in 1st person would not have made it any better. As long as all the other issues were still in effect a 1st person Other M would have been just as awful. In fact, if the game was solely in 1st person it probably would have been even worse because in my opinion some of the worst parts of the game (the pixel hunts and trying to use missiles during the boss battles and having to stand still to line it up) were in 1st person. So an Other M which was 100% first person probably would have had a lot more of that shittiness.

That's why you need to re-evaluate what you are saying when you say "Verified Great!". Maybe Retro verified a 1st person Metroid could be great, but that doesn't mean Team Ninja and Sakamoto could do the same. Look at Other M and imagine a game exactly like that but with a 1st person perspective. Is it now a great game? The perspective has absolutely nothing to do with a title's quality or lack thereof. A piece of **** by any other perspective would still smell as ****.

[Ian Sane]

Chozo you forgot to mention how Other M has no health power-ups, thus making it so you have no way to heal between save points aside from a last ditch recharge that requires you to hold still which isn't exactly something one can often do when they're about to die.  Surely most developers wouldn't come up with THAT idea either.  I actually hate that more than any other of the questionable design decisions of that game.  Did Sakamoto seriously look at the health system that literally EVERY GAME IN THE SERIES uses and think "man, this is broken"?  Perhaps it was Team Ninja that came up with it.

That and the missile system is so broken that I'm blown away that none of the designers realized how poorly the concept worked.  Did they have fun getting killed by enemies while standing still trying to aim?  Did they do testing with an infinite health code and thus didn't realize how frustrating it was to play?  Considering that the lousy voice acting was supposedly intentionally directed to sound the way it did, I figure Sakamoto just didn't care if those game mechanics were fun or logical.  It's his idea, damn it, and you're all going to love it!  The whole thing comes across like self-indulgent hubris where any constructive criticism would be taken very personally and immediately dismissed.  It's Star Wars Prequels: The Game.  If you observe any creative work where the creator surrounds himself with yes-men and does not take into account any suggestions or criticism it often resembles something like Other M.

[Chozo Ghost]

Sakamoto insisted that the game be playable solely with a wiimote turned on its side like an NES controller. I think that's what makes a lot of the control problems unavoidable. If he had went with the classic controller or allowed the nunchuck to be used then there would be a way for Samus to move and aim at the same time instead of being a sitting duck.

But you are right about the health thing. Even with the limitations of only using a Wiimote there's no excuse for crippling the game in such a way. Maybe he thought it would make the game more challenging? If so he was right. I recall one time in the game I saved with really low health and just after that I was in an area with normal enemies and I had an extremely difficult and frustrating time getting past that because I was at the point where like 2-3 hits and I was dead. That was harder for me than any of the bosses or anything, and these were just normal enemies.

And does anyone really think the pixel hunts were fun? Doesn't Samus have a x-ray visor thing that can scan stuff? Its like these pixel hunts were tossed in as a poor man's substitute for that. I don't know if that's just laziness or what, but I remember in Super Metroid and the Prime games you could scan walls and stuff. You didn't have to manually use your eyes and try to find some pixel that seems out of place. Samus had this cool technology that's supposed to do that for you. I suppose that's yet another of those things Adam had to authorize, but unfortunately he never does, so one of the coolest things of Metroid is never available.

[MagicCow64]

Yeah, all those things you've listed, pixel hunts, bad cut scenes, dumb upgrade system, missile aiming, and what have you were unforced errors. But I still think the basic style of the game, rolling around in isometric third-person, would have been underwhelming even if the other design and presentation problems weren't present. It felt more like a Ninja Gaiden/Devil May Cry-type game than a Metroid game. I don't know how else you'd translate Metroid into 3rd person without taking that route, but then again I wouldn't have been able to conceive of Metroid Prime either. It took luck and top-rate talent to pull that off. Basically I think someone needs to reinvent the wheel for a 3rd person iteration, not fall into a Sonic trap where every game promises to be a reboot but ends up having all the same problems, which is what I suspect would happen if a studio took another whack at that pinata without letting Other M sink well into the dustbin of history.

I think it's really hard to pull off, given the style of Metroid and the constraints of the third-person outside of platformers and shoulder-rig games like Gears of War. I mean, Retro basically had to invent a new genre to get it to translate into 1st person. I hold that something equally inventive needs to be done to successfully adapt it into 3rd. Other M felt very inside-the-box to me on the broadest level of its conception. The Arkham game style wouldn't really work, but it would need to be something that original and tailored to the content.

[Chozo Ghost]

It felt more like a Ninja Gaiden

Consider the source. Before working on Other M, Team Ninja was known for Ninja Gaiden games. So its probably not a coincidence that the two games feel similar. Much of their Ninja Gaiden expertise no doubt rubbed off in the making of Other M.

Had another developer done Other M the feel of it would probably have been entirely different, for better or worse.

[broodwars]

I still think there's plenty of promise in Team Ninja doing another Metroid title, so long as they are aren't shackled to insane design mandates by someone like Sakamoto.  They clearly have a good understanding of the flow of movement and combat in 2D Metroid games.  They just need a better designer to guide them.

[Adrock]

Just once I would like to see a Metroid topic not descend into a Sakamoto bash-fest...

I like the Rocksteady idea just because i never would have thought to give them Metroid and I felt the same way about Retro Studios and that turned out wonderfully. I don't know about Gearbox, but maybe they would do well. I like MercurySteam a lot as a developer. I think David Cox said he wanted to do Contra next. Given the choice, I'd rather see them take on Contra than Metroid because that's probably the harder game to greenlight. WayFoward Technologies did a fantastic job with Contra 4, but it's like the world doesn't like fun things so they were never asked to make a Contra 5. You all probably know how I feel about them working on a 2D Metroid game.

What about Ubisoft since they're like in love with Wii U? Just give the series to Michel Ancel and let him do whatever he wants. Yes, I know he's in France so I'm not sure Ubisoft Montpellier counts as a western developer but kytim suggested MercurySteam so yeah, whatever. I play by my own rules, nobody else's, not even my own.

[Chozo Ghost]

Just once I would like to see a Metroid topic not descend into a Sakamoto bash-fest...

Do a forum search for any Metroid topic which hasn't been posted in since before August 2010 and your wish will probably be granted.

That said, yeah I know what you mean. But until the franchise moves forward and we have something new to talk about its probably going to stay this way.