Topic: NWR Game Club #2: Metroid: Other M

[broodwars]

The silly story choice of "permission" seemed ludicrous

Agreed.  But is it any more ludicrous than an alien planet being full of compatible missile and energy upgrades?

Or starting every mission with only the base equipment?

Yes, it is.  The former has usually been explained away fairly easily by the plot (even if Fusion's version of it is just...weird), and the latter can be filled in by your imagination.  But the whole "permission" system just makes Samus and Adam look like morons, especially when it comes to the defensive equipment like the Varia Suit.

[TrueNerd]

No one wants to field this simple "yes" or "no" question?

A lot of that sounds like it's plucked right from Other M, don't it?

It does. But there's far less of it and the lack of voice acting makes things far less terrible. And Fusion is, for me, a far more enjoyable game despite also being rather linear, which helps.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@broodwars

Use your imagination, eh?  So, what was the story you used to tell yourself for how all this compatible gear got lodged deep within the bowels of an alien planet?

You know, in my imagination, people understand that the one scene with the armor upgrade is in Other M because they wanted to make for a tense scene in video game.  Do I agree with it? No.  Do I understand why they did it? Not really, no.  Do I find it sexist, offensive and abhorrent? HELL FLIPPIN' NO!

@TrueNerd

Exactly.  The delivery method and amount was new, not the content/characterization.

[broodwars]

@broodwars

Use your imagination, eh?  So, what was the story you used to tell yourself for how all this compatible gear got lodged deep within the bowels of an alien planet?

*sigh*

You do understand what the terms "latter" and "former" mean, right?  You got them reversed just now.  I was saying that you can use your imagination (unless the game explains otherwise, as Metroid Primes 1 and 2 do) for why Samus starts some games with only the base equipment.  The presence of the compatible alien technology is usually explained away either by the manual or in-game text.  The Prime games seem to go out of their way to explain it with Lore scans.

[TrueNerd]

Well, in the case of Samus, the amount does affect the characterization. And the way the voice over is acted and handled does as well.

[Oblivion]

So, is this game worth paying ten dollars for, or am I better off not wasting my time and money on?

[NWR_Neal]

Well, I love A Boy and His Blob, but this Game Club is already way more interesting.


@Oblivion - Yes it is. Pick it up for $10.

[Oblivion]

Alrighty. I'll buy it and put it in my backlog.

[Chocobo_Rider]

@broodwars

Sorry, honest mix-up.  Though I actually find the way you intended even more surprising.  I don't recall anything explaining the item placement (aside from the Chozo stuff obviously) in the original manuals.  Got a link?

@TrueNerd

um, no... the evidence to Samus' character is either there or not there.  As Fusion and the manga (which people like to ignore, and hey, it's not a game so .... I can understand the temptation) showed, that is who Samus has always been.

Even the "sexualization" is present from the very first game when you can see her in a bikini!

It's even more revealing than the Zero Suit, but as I've been saying in many regards to the game, it was the technology that changes people's views.  If you rendered Samus' bikini version from the NES original in gorgeous modern CGI? Yea.... stop the presses! Nintendo porn!  And you'd have people crying about how Samus used to be tougher than that.... or something ....

The same is true of the voice acting, as you alluded to earlier.

@Oblivion

If you can distance yourself from the mayhem that surrounds the game (ie. discussions like this one) you will get far more than $10 worth of quality video gaming.  Enjoy.

[Sarail]

I loved Metroid: Other M. In fact, it's my second fav Metroid game behind Super Metroid. NinSage, I'm with ya, bro. The game is excellent, and I loved every second of it.

[broodwars]

@broodwars

Sorry, honest mix-up.  Though I actually find the way you intended even more surprising.  I don't recall anything explaining the item placement (aside from the Chozo stuff obviously) in the original manuals.  Got a link?

I looked up the original Metroid manual, and while it goes surprisingly in-depth on the whole "space pirate" thing and Samus' mission (amusingly referring to Samus as a man) it really doesn't mention the Chozo.  The Super Metroid one does at least mention them, and the fact that the upgrade technology is theirs.  It doesn't look like the whole Chozo-Samus backstory was really started until the Nintendo Power comic, and it wasn't solidified until Metroid Prime (with Zero Mission having the Chozo Statues and a flashback sequence to tie-into the Metroid Prime mythology).

[Chocobo_Rider]

@Rachtman

Stay strong, brotha.  : Remember, most Metroid fans agree with us: link

@broodwars

I meant all the random missile expansions and energy tanks.

[Lithium]

So, is this game worth paying ten dollars for, or am I better off not wasting my time and money on?

for $10? yeah for sure, i had a great time with the story since I was laughing hysterically the whole time through the cutscenes. The actual game part is good though with the exception of the hunt and peck portions (just use a faq for them)

[broodwars]

@Rachtman

Stay strong, brotha.  : : : : Remember, most Metroid fans on this one message board agree with us: link

Fixed.

@broodwars

I meant all the random missile expansions and energy tanks.

It's all Chozo technology, though the way the 2D Metroids hide their upgrades in solid blocks pretty much falls under the "It's magic. I don't have to explain it." rule of design.     Honestly, I think the real edge cases are Metroid Prime 2 and Fusion, where apparently Luminoth technology is compatible with Chozo tech (Prime 2) and special abilities can be downloaded from the internet (Fusion).  I suppose both are plausible in their own ways, given that the Luminoth are one of the three ancient races and probably had dealings with the Chozo.  And the Fusion suit is partially Federation tech, so I guess that works.

[Chocobo_Rider]

As far as I know, from back when I was involved in such things, MDb is one of the top 3 Metroid communities on the web.... I feel like it could have been argued for #1 back then, but, as I said, that was a few years ago ...

[Halbred]

If I ignore everything about Other M that I absolutely hate (the story, the writing, the pixel hunts, the forced item progression, the fact that you can't 100% the game before facing the Queen, the WORST FINAL BOSS "FIGHT" OF ANY GAME EVER, etc.), I like the game. The gameplay is generally surprisingly good.
 
I genuinely believe that Other M is meant to replace Fusion in the mainline continuity, though. I honestly do. There are lots of reasons for it, and I'll be writing about it for a feature this month. We may also debate it on Connectivity.

[Lithium]

If I ignore everything about Other M that I absolutely hate (the story, the writing, the pixel hunts, the forced item progression, the fact that you can't 100% the game before facing the Queen, the WORST FINAL BOSS "FIGHT" OF ANY GAME EVER, etc.), I like the game. The gameplay is generally surprisingly good.

agreed. the core game play is fine, it's the stuff surrounding it that drags the game's reputation down.

[Adrock]

I genuinely believe that Other M is meant to replace Fusion in the mainline continuity, though. I honestly do. There are lots of reasons for it, and I'll be writing about it for a feature this month. We may also debate it on Connectivity.

It would kind of have to or at least one of them has to not count because they don't make sense in the same series, such as Samus learning of a Metroid cloning program and the Nightmare boss showing up. Other M attempts to explain that away by having the Galactic Federation extract its remains from the Bottle Ship but Samus never does say, "Oh, you again..." in Fusion. Yeah, I understand the whole "how can you reference a story that hasn't been written yet?" However, don't write a story that way just because you think something is cool (which is the problem most fanfiction runs into) or, preferably, plan it ahead of time.

My hope is that Other M is ignored because, despite being a decent game, it's still worse than Fusion.

[Chocobo_Rider]

I genuinely believe that Other M is meant to replace Fusion in the mainline continuity, though. I honestly do. There are lots of reasons for it, and I'll be writing about it for a feature this month. We may also debate it on Connectivity.

The quotes I listed above directly reference events in Other M.  What more evidence could you need? It may not be 100%, but do we need to list great works of fiction (not saying Other M is great) that have < 100% consistency? You may not be currently enjoying it, but Sakamoto has had a vision for quite some time and this is it.*

@Adrock

I'm not even sure that's a plot hole as much as a plot-not-able-to-see-100%-into-the-future.  As mentioned above, they still did a rather admirable job fitting the events of Other M into the quotes I provided from Fusion.  *In the grand scheme of video games that attempt to have complex plots, overall, this is still pretty well done!! (again, this does not include the dialogue. Merely the events.)

[Chozo Ghost]

Even the "sexualization" is present from the very first game when you can see her in a bikini!

It's even more revealing than the Zero Suit, but as I've been saying in many regards to the game, it was the technology that changes people's views.  If you rendered Samus' bikini version from the NES original in gorgeous modern CGI? Yea.... stop the presses! Nintendo porn!

Another thing to consider is the Bikini Samus was only revealed at the very end of the game, and for a very short period of time. The form fitting Zero suit on the other hand reveals every nook and cranny, and is shown for a longer length of time during the cutscenes, and even during gameplay in some cases.

Its also a bit debatable that the Bikini is more revealing, because the Bikini isn't spandex and doesn't mold itself to her like a second skin the way the Zero suit does. Granted, the bikini does cover less skin, though.

[Adrock]

I'm not even sure that's a plot hole as much as a plot-not-able-to-see-100%-into-the-future.  As mentioned above, they still did a rather admirable job fitting the events of Other M into the quotes I provided from Fusion.

Are you for... Seriously?

Yeah, I understand the whole "how can you reference a story that hasn't been written yet?" However, don't write a story that way just because you think something is cool (which is the problem most fanfiction runs into) or, preferably, plan it ahead of time.

Not only are they completely avoidable plot holes considering Fusion already existed but they're created by Other M's very existence. Other M almost does a decent job of fitting in between Metroid 3 and 4. All Sakamoto needed to do was not step on the toes of a story he wrote himself some 8 years earlier. He has access to all of his notes and reference materials because they're his notes. If he can't be bothered to keep track of his own ****, he shouldn't have that responsibility. 

[Ian Sane]

The whole thing about the logic of an alien planet just happening to have compatible upgrades for Samus calls into the rule of fun.  Videogames are supposed to be fun so certain leaps of logic have to exist to make them that way.  Why does the enemies base have all sorts of bottomless pits in it?  Why does every area Mario visits have floating question mark boxes with mushrooms in them?  And then there's the really basic stuff like how your character has multiple lives, can survive getting hit by missiles if they have enough "health" and never has to go to the bathroom.  A good videogame has certain concessions like that to make the game fun.

I find that psychologically finding new abilities is more fun than having those abilities and being told you can't use them yet.  In one case you're under someone else's thumb and in the other you're taking matters into your own hands.  Plus in Super Metroid there is a sense of accomplishment.  You look on the map and see an area you have not discovered yet.  You head over there, dealing with the dangers on the way and find... a Chozo statue!  Now you have a new ability and immediately you realize you can access this area and that area that you had passed before!  That's fun and satisfying.  In Other M the game just arbitrarily says "okay you have this now" and forget about thinking about what new areas you can explore now.  Nope.  The game is going to tell you where you can and can't go.

[Gato]

Another thing to consider is the Bikini Samus was only revealed at the very end of the game, and for a very short period of time.

Look up "Justin Bailey."

[Chocobo_Rider]

@Adrock

I'm sorry.  I must not be understanding the depth/severity of the plot contradiction you're trying to describe.  Can you elaborate on it?  Just throw up some SPOILER warnings if you need to really go in depth.

[Luigi Dude]

Not only are they completely avoidable plot holes considering Fusion already existed but they're created by Other M's very existence. Other M almost does a decent job of fitting in between Metroid 3 and 4. All Sakamoto needed to do was not step on the toes of a story he wrote himself some 8 years earlier. He has access to all of his notes and reference materials because they're his notes. If he can't be bothered to keep track of his own ****, he shouldn't have that responsibility. 

The only thing in Other M that can be considered a plot hole for Fusion is when she discovers the cloned Metroids in that game, but even then it's not a true plot hole.  For all we know Samus could have thought after all the crazy sh!t that went down in Other M, the Federation would have realized how dangerous it is to clone Metroids and not do it again.  Yeah that would be kind of stupid of Samus think that after Other M's events showed her the Federation wasn't filled with trustworthy people but still, it doesn't constitute a full plot hole.  When she's telling Adam she thought all the Metroids were dead, she could still be talking about the events of Other M since after Other M she could have thought all the Metroids were dead again.

The Nightmare thing you keep bringing up isn't close to a plot hole since Samus doesn't even say anything when she see's Nightmare in Fusion because it's just a normal boss fight where you enter a room and then start fighting.  During the times she talks to Adam and he tells her about a weapon, how is she suppose to know it was the same thing she fought in Other M since she doesn't actually see the creature in Fusion until she finally fights it.  The story fits perfectly fine where she fought Nightmare in Other M, the Federation rebuilds it afterwards, she ends up fighting it again in Fusion. 


Just because they didn't have some kind of special text bubble before the fight doesn't make it a plot hole.  To say that Nightmare being in Fusion is a plot hole just because Samus doesn't say anything would be like saying Kraid, Ridley and Mother Brain being in Super Metroid is a plot hole since they were all killed in the original Metroid but Samus never says anything in a text bubble at the start of the fight.