Author Topic: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS  (Read 18245 times)

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Offline Webmalfunction

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Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« on: January 30, 2012, 10:22:56 PM »

He plans to find a balance between flexibility and security.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/29130

Nintendo President Satoru Iwata explained how Nintendo will use micro-transactions during a recent Q&A with investors at the recent financial briefing.

Iwata stated that Nintendo plans to keep an appropriate level of flexibility in its handling of micro-payments (transactions involving a very small sum of money for things like downloadable content or game enhancements, which are already seen in many social games), but also remarks that Nintendo must keep a similar level of strictness to account for its younger audience.

"We have a belief that our games should be a trusted brand for a very wide variety of consumers, including children and casual users who are not so familiar with the trends of video games. Therefore, we would like to have regulations with a certain degree of strictness so that consumers will get a sense of reassurance from our games."

When asked about the place of third parties in such a system, Iwata stated that Nintendo plans to ensure "a relative level of flexibility for the Nintendo 3DS and the Wii U" in response to those saying that the company is too strict and behind the times in its third-party publishing guidelines. He also stated that if third-parties show interest, he would have no intention to decline their implementation of micro-payments.


Offline Enner

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2012, 10:48:46 PM »
Sounds like a move forward for the company. However, I have doubts that this is any indication that there will be US$1-3 games on the 3DS and Wii U.


Unless there are already some on the 3DS and Wii and I have just missed them. I haven't been keeping up with prices on the eShop.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2012, 10:49:36 PM »
The option should be there for 3rd parties. I don't know if I want to see Nintendo engaging in that, because I see it as a unscrupulous business practice and I would rather not have Nintendo involved in it, but we all know EA and companies like that are going to do it regardless of whether Nintendo approves of it or not, so the option might as well be there I guess.
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Offline StrawHousePig

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 12:03:41 AM »
Micro transactions? *ick!*
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Offline NeoThunder

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 12:04:12 AM »
We as consumers should fight against the nickle and diming of gamers, and not buy any of this crap.  Ohh, $10 of real money to buy fake money in an imaginary world.  The only people I wanna slap across the face more than the developers are the people who buy this crap
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2012, 12:05:55 AM »
We as consumers should fight against the nickle and diming of gamers, and not buy any of this crap.  Ohh, $10 of real money to buy fake money in an imaginary world.  The only people I wanna slap across the face more than the developers are the people who buy this crap

Are you against DLC in general? Because DLC can be good. Look at games like GTA or Mass Effect, which had hours of new content added through DLC.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2012, 01:11:42 AM »
We as consumers should fight against the nickle and diming of gamers, and not buy any of this crap.  Ohh, $10 of real money to buy fake money in an imaginary world.  The only people I wanna slap across the face more than the developers are the people who buy this crap

Are you against DLC in general? Because DLC can be good. Look at games like GTA or Mass Effect, which had hours of new content added through DLC.

I'm okay with substantial DLC that's reasonably priced. I don't like 50 cents for a new hat for 99 cents for a piece of armor and things like that. Stuff like that should be bundled in with the big DLC, or just provided for free, or not at all.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2012, 01:43:45 AM »
DLC has a bad history and I seriously doubt that Nintendo can turn this around anytime soon. Micro-transactions are worse by definition since they exist to nickel and dime.

I have rarely brought DLC and have never felt completely satisfied with my purchase. It just has a very poor connection between value and price. Not to mention there is potentially no end to the amount of DLC which just messes with that connection even more. At least with full on expansion packs, you know this is it and at most if it was really, really popular, they might do one more.

In one extreme you have Railworks which has a combine total of $1659.12 USD for all DLC and it's not going to stop at anytime soon.

The best use of DLC I have seen is from Valve who charges nothing for new content and it makes for an extremely good incentive not to pirate, even if you have to wait for one of their crazy deals to buy the game.

Non-free DLC will continue to turn me off certain games due to their structural dependence on them.
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Offline Chocobo_Rider

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2012, 03:39:45 AM »
I hate paid DLC. No matter how micro.

I'm not even crazy about free DLC unless that data will be guaranteed readable by every device that can play its games.

In other words, my PS1 stopped working, but I have a PS2 which can play its games and read its memory cards.  But imagine if current practices were applied to that model and Vincent from FF7 was a "free DLC" saved to the PS1's internal memory ... now I still paid full price to own FF7... but my access to Vincent becomes an expired rental.

Not free.

Not cool.

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2012, 10:19:31 AM »
The problem is also that you can never actually tell if the DLC is "real" or not. Is it already on the disc/file/cart but just locked with a code? Was it going to be in the game originally, but removed to sell later as DLC? Is it just using the exact same assets, just slightly remixed? (cough Dead Space 2)

Few things have made me as disgusted at the game industry as when I rented LA Noire (right when it came out) and looked through the achievements and noticed that there were already several built in for the DLC, specific titles and everything.

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2012, 10:50:17 AM »
The problem is also that you can never actually tell if the DLC is "real" or not. Is it already on the disc/file/cart but just locked with a code? Was it going to be in the game originally, but removed to sell later as DLC? Is it just using the exact same assets, just slightly remixed? (cough Dead Space 2)
Actually you can tell by how much data you have to download/how much space it takes on the hard drive. Simple!

Reading over this, a couple questions and observations popped into my head...

Was Microsoft looking at dumping their ms points system for straight money transactions, or was that a rumor? Which makes more sense for a company like Nintendo? I can see pros and cons for both...

According to Capcom smart guy Christian Svensson, games sell more if DLC is announced for them before they come out. I see some (sometimes justified) hate on DLC on this forum and elsewhere, but I guess it's cool with gamers at large that vote with their wallets.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2012, 11:44:55 AM »
I've never purchased DLC. I don't mind it existing for the most part. The closest I got to buying DLC was for the 2 extra scenarios in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. I decided to pass and just read the spoilers on Wikipedia. Those were optional levels that didn't effect the retail game. The DLC content fleshed out the ending but wasn't necessary. It totally depends on the content being reserved for DLC. Prince of Persia 2008 withheld the ending of the game. Certain fighting games have withheld entire characters. That's crossing the line. Of course, those are things people will most likely pay for. However, it's kind of sleazy. I don't want to buy Smash Bros. 4 and have to pay extra for Link though I would be willing to pay extra for an HD Retro Stage Pack featuring remade stages from the 1st three games.

Offline Enner

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2012, 12:02:05 PM »
In one extreme you have Railworks which has a combine total of $1659.12 USD for all DLC and it's not going to stop at anytime soon.

To be fair, I don't think the developer intends every person person to buy all the trains and scenarios; only the ones they like. Then again, I don't know how a train enthusiast would approach Railworks.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2012, 12:25:14 PM »
I can't stand micro-transactions.  In fact I could see its widespread adoption turning me off of current games completely.  This last gen being the first with DLC and downloadable titles has made me appreciate my older "put the game in and it works" systems all the more.

Still Nintendo has to include it as an option because that's what third parties want.

In theory there is the idea that "if you don't want it, don't buy it" but the problem is that idiots can ruin things for everyone.  I can decide not to buy this crap but if I'm playing Zelda and I encounter some guy saying "Pay $9.99 to access this sub-quest" the game is ruined for me.  I don't have to pay but the sheer presence of that in my videogame ruins it for me.  That would cross the line.  It would be like Link drinking a Pepsi in a cutscene.

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2012, 12:54:09 PM »
The problem is also that you can never actually tell if the DLC is "real" or not. Is it already on the disc/file/cart but just locked with a code? Was it going to be in the game originally, but removed to sell later as DLC? Is it just using the exact same assets, just slightly remixed? (cough Dead Space 2)
Actually you can tell by how much data you have to download/how much space it takes on the hard drive. Simple!

Reading over this, a couple questions and observations popped into my head...

Was Microsoft looking at dumping their ms points system for straight money transactions, or was that a rumor? Which makes more sense for a company like Nintendo? I can see pros and cons for both...

According to Capcom smart guy Christian Svensson, games sell more if DLC is announced for them before they come out. I see some (sometimes justified) hate on DLC on this forum and elsewhere, but I guess it's cool with gamers at large that vote with their wallets.

Sure, you can see how big the file is, but it could just be an inflated key. Or in the case of Mega Man 9, everything is so small as to be inscrutable. I'm all for this assuredly futile congressional investigation: http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/pc/2011/09/19/the-microtransaction-investigation/

Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2012, 12:56:23 PM »
Whoops, wrong article. But I swear I read something a while back about Congress looking into the business practices of DLC.

Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2012, 01:12:11 PM »
Sure, you can see how big the file is, but it could just be an inflated key.
I've never heard of a game company doing this. Got any examples?

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2012, 01:12:45 PM »
I'm still surprised at the number of people who actually care if the DLC is physically on the disc or not.  Like, this particular horse armor isn't worth $2 because it's already on the disc, but if I have to actually download it from their servers, well it's totally worth $2 then...

Personally - I've never paid for DLC - and as a Nintendo-only gamer I've never had much of a chance - but if I feel the value of the addition to the game play is worth the cost, then I'll get it.  If not, well, it's no different than THQ charging $30 for some licensed crap game... I just ignore it and move on.
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Offline S-U-P-E-R

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2012, 01:28:09 PM »
I see content on the disc, created as part of the normal development cycle, as content withheld and up for ransom, rather than "extra" content that supports a game after release. While it might not actually be the case all the time (like if extra budget above and beyond the regular game budget is alloted for DLC or whatever), that's my perception as a consumer. It feels bad, man.
 
If a game company wants to extend a game I like after the regular development cycle is over, though, I'm totally down with that.

Offline broodwars

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2012, 01:29:51 PM »
In other words, my PS1 stopped working, but I have a PS2 which can play its games and read its memory cards.  But imagine if current practices were applied to that model and Vincent from FF7 was a "free DLC" saved to the PS1's internal memory ... now I still paid full price to own FF7... but my access to Vincent becomes an expired rental.

This scenario goes both ways, though.  What if Vincent was a character that was cut from Final Fantasy 7 due to lack of time and resources?  That's an entire character and story you would never have seen.  Or how about the two missing dungeons from Wind Waker, which Nintendo cut because they wanted to rush the game out the door to meet its release date?  With DLC, though, that content doesn't have to remain on the proverbial cutting room floor.  Content we otherwise wouldn't have had now becomes available to us for a small additional cost.  I'd rather have the option to pay to see that content than to see potentially worthwhile content get cut for budgetary reasons.  I love Single-Player DLC that gives me more of a game I really enjoyed.

The problem with DLC is that some companies really use it well with hours of additional content that only enhances the original experience (Bioware, Bethesda), but others abuse it with cheap unlocks and what at one time would have been cheat codes or easter eggs (Electronic Arts, Capcom).  It's up to the consumer, though, to keep these companies honest on such matters, and the consumers have been negligent in that duty so far.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2012, 01:38:46 PM »
Since the content is already on the disc, technically it has already been paid for. Things that previously came with a video game in the past now require a fee. I can see both sides of it. People want to feel like they're not double dipping by just unlocking something on a disc they already own. It makes sense. At the same time, if one is willing to pay for a microtransaction in the first place, it shouldn't matter, especially since it's easier and faster to download a line of code.

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2012, 01:48:40 PM »
Since the content is already on the disc, technically it has already been paid for.
While I agree with the sentiment, I don't believe this is actually the case. Counterpoint: remember the old id software Quake 1 demo CD that actually had the entire id game collection up to that point on it? Unlockable by ordering codes over the phone. I wouldn't feel entitled to all that just for paying less than 10 dollars.

As an aside, that distribution plan ended hilariously badly

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2012, 01:52:42 PM »
Since the content is already on the disc, technically it has already been paid for. Things that previously came with a video game in the past now require a fee.

This, of course, doesn't acknowledge the fact that development costs have skyrocketed in today's world.  Check out the end credits to the original Zelda, then, check out the end credits to Skyward Sword.  Heck, you could probably beat the original Zelda in the time it takes for Skyward Sword's credits to roll. ;)

Meanwhile, both games cost the same (actually, since some NES games ran $60, you might even have an argument that games are *cheaper* now... even more so if you factor in inflation).

So... the cost to create the product is much, much more and the cost to the consumer is flat (or even decreased)... of course stuff is going to either have to be cut out of the game or sold by itself (or we can get a rush of in-game advertising)...
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2012, 02:03:02 PM »
DLC is not really any different than old PC game expansion packs only we now have that for consoles.  What made an expansion pack work is the feeling that it was extra content made after the game was released.  You didn't encounter closed off areas that would be available in the expansion pack (you did in Shareware games but that's different).  They didn't take something that was a code or an unlockable and hide it behind a fee.  At least I never encountered this in my experience playing PC games.

DLC should work like that.  It should be additional content released later on, a stop gap between a full-on sequel.  There are games where the DLC is available on DAY ONE.  That's just nickle and dime bullshit.  That's like if Super Mario World made you pay extra to play as Luigi.  If you can have it ready to be on the disc it should be in the game, period.  No one made us pay to unlock part of the game prior to this gen so why is that now okay?  In that sense I share the same feelings as Ty in regards to stuff that is included on the disc.  They're just hiding it away as a cash grab.  It isn't a service to the customer, it's a tax.  Releasing some DLC expansion pack later on however is more like a service.  They're offering a new product that the customer may want to buy.  They're not charging for something they would have included for free ten years ago.

Would you buy a physical product that hid away features with codes?  Instead of buying an attachment for your vacuum cleaner imagine it came with everything but there was a big padlock on it you had to pay to unlock to access the extra attachments.  That would be completely ridiculous.  That's what I see on-the-disc DLC as.  It's there and they just arbitrarily lock it away from you.

The approach these companies take now is "what can we make in this game that we charge extra for?"  I don't want to support companies like that.  What a greedy approach.  I consider that quite different from "later on we'll release an expansion" which is really no different from "later on we'll release a sequel".  Someday there will be movies that charge you extra to see the ending and there will be a lineup of complete suckers going around the block waiting to pay for it.  You could tax these rubes for breathing and they would pay with a smile on their face.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Iwata Hints at the Future of Micro-Transactions for Wii U, 3DS
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2012, 02:12:58 PM »
So, what if a publisher gives a developer a budget of $100 to create the game - but gives them an additional $10 towards development if they add some kind of DLC into the game while developing it?

Without DLC, the game would have had the initial $100 to create the game and that's it.

With the DLC, the developer can spend $5 worth of development costs to create the DLC, then spend that extra $5 towards adding even more stuff to the game.
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