Topic: PlayStation All Stars: Better than Super Smash Bros Brawl!

[nickmitch]

Touché.

[Oblivion]

Hey, I'd wager that a rapping cartoon dog to be more powerful than any GReek legend.

[Stogi]

I have a feeling that Sony may money-hat long-time Sony developers like SquareEnix and even EA to get some exclusive characters ala Soul Calibur.

[tendoboy1984]

I have a feeling that Sony may money-hat long-time Sony developers like SquareEnix and even EA to get some exclusive characters ala Soul Calibur.

EA? Who are they going to put in? Some military dude from Battlefield and Medal of Honor? Or Issac Clark from Dead Space?

I'd much rather see Ubisoft characters like Ezio (Assassin's Creed), Sam Fisher (Splinter Cell), Rayman, Jade (Beyond Good and Evil).

[Adrock]

I'd be really surprised if Cloud wasn't in this game. Really surprised.

I'm curious just how deep in the well Sony is willing to go. Will Legend of Legaia and Legend of Dragoon be represented? I'd love to see Ico and The Queen show up.

[tendoboy1984]

I'd be really surprised if Cloud wasn't in this game. Really surprised.

I'm curious just how deep in the well Sony is willing to go. Will Legend of Legaia and Legend of Dragoon be represented? I'd love to see Ico and The Queen show up.

Considering Legend of Dragoon was finally put up on PSN, I'd say there's a good chance.


I'd love to see some Wild Arms characters, that's a series that Sony has neglected for far too long.

[lolmonade]

So is Solid Snake up for grabs, or is he lost due to his inclusion to Smash Bros?

Maybe Old Snake?  Or other characters from the series? (Robo Raiden, Liquid Snake, Vamp)

I'd love if they could get PS1 version of Spyro in the game.

[Oblivion]

Maybe Old Snake, but I think his middle aged character is off limits. Maybe have Cyber Raiden?

[broodwars]

So is Solid Snake up for grabs, or is he lost due to his inclusion to Smash Bros?

Maybe Old Snake?  Or other characters from the series? (Robo Raiden, Liquid Snake, Vamp)

I'd love if they could get PS1 version of Spyro in the game.

Nintendo doesn't own Snake just because he was in one Smash Bros. game.  He's still Konami's character, and he'll be in whatever game Konami wants him in.  Considering the longstanding Sony association with the character, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the game.  Given that I don't like any of the Metal Gear games, I could do without him (and I thought he was severely out of place in Brawl) but he's an important character to Sony gamers in general.

[tendoboy1984]

So is Solid Snake up for grabs, or is he lost due to his inclusion to Smash Bros?

Maybe Old Snake?  Or other characters from the series? (Robo Raiden, Liquid Snake, Vamp)

I'd love if they could get PS1 version of Spyro in the game.

Nintendo doesn't own Snake just because he was in one Smash Bros. game.  He's still Konami's character, and he'll be in whatever game Konami wants him in.  Considering the longstanding Sony association with the character, I'd be surprised if he wasn't in the game.  Given that I don't like any of the Metal Gear games, I could do without him (and I thought he was severely out of place in Brawl) but he's an important character to Sony gamers in general.

I find it highly ironic that Kojima keeps saying he wants to step away from the Metal Gear series, but he keeps coming back like an addict. Can't he just walk away? I thought "Kojima Productions" was an independent developer?

[ThePerm]

i remember everyone going gaga over Brawl, but also being kinda miffed about simple lack of painfully obvious features. The thing about fighting games is that you have to keep the gameplay consitant throughout a series, gameplay is what seperates one fighting game from the others. Take Soul Calibur for instance. Pretty much always the exact game, but im happy with this. I hated Soul Calibur 3, it was different. Soul Calibur 5 kinda seems unnecessary in that its exactly like part 4 except it has the Assassin Creed star. Still, i was having fun playing through story mode, but i find it funny i dont need a tutorial. I pick it up and its second nature, even playing with characters iv never played as before it has the smartest most natural combo chaining system(though idk i never got into tekken so im not sure about that)

[broodwars]

i remember everyone going gaga over Brawl, but also being kinda miffed about simple lack of painfully obvious features. The thing about fighting games is that you have to keep the gameplay consitant throughout a series, gameplay is what seperates one fighting game from the others. Take Soul Calibur for instance. Pretty much always the exact game, but im happy with this. I hated Soul Calibur 3, it was different. Soul Calibur 5 kinda seems unnecessary in that its exactly like part 4 except it has the Assassin Creed star. Still, i was having fun playing through story mode, but i find it funny i dont need a tutorial. I pick it up and its second nature, even playing with characters iv never played as before it has the smartest most natural combo chaining system(though idk i never got into tekken so im not sure about that)

What "painfully obvious features" did you think were missing from Brawl?

[ThePerm]

More costumes. They had to some extant both Young Link and Adult Link, but really they should have had more costumes beyond texture swaps for every character. Like for example instead of just Toon Link there could have been an alternate costume of Majora's Mask link. Mario could have had Dr. Mario, im not saying make whole new characters(like melee), just alternate costumes. Ganondorf Oot has a different design then Ganondorf WW and TP. Now in some cases they would be simply texture switches, but in other cases im sure they would have to make new models, but its not too much to ask. There are other games where theres like 5 different costumes for each character and they use radically different costumes, like for example Soul Calibur. Part of the goal of Smash Bros is the nostalgia factor, so you would think its important they cram as much nostalgia in as possible. I also don't mind having to unlock costumes. The Mortal Kombat games would make that part of the gameplay. I felt what was offered in Brawl over Melee wasn't enough, and proved the whole project got mediocre attention. Brawl is mostly just melee with a new coat of paint...except Kirby.

[TJ Spyke]

I thought "Kojima Productions" was an independent developer?

No, they are owned by Konami.

[S-U-P-E-R]

HAY GUYS BIG NEWZ

http://shoryuken.com/2012/04/28/maj-and-ed-ma-part-of-playstation-all-stars-battle-royales-combat-design-team/

http://shoryuken.com/2012/05/16/clowkw0rk-joins-playstation-all-stars-battle-royal-developer-as-community-manager/

I think this game may turn out to be good now~

[tendoboy1984]

I thought "Kojima Productions" was an independent developer?

No, they are owned by Konami.

But Kojima has a lot of say with what he does. If he really wanted to step away from Metal Gear, he would have done so after MGS 3 (the original PS2 game).

[BlackNMild2k1]

I thought "Kojima Productions" was an independent developer?

No, they are owned by Konami.

But Kojima has a lot of say with what he does. If he really wanted to step away from Metal Gear, he would have done so after MGS 3 (the original PS2 game).

I'm sure he wanted to, but then Konami would have given it to someone else.... and he can't have that.
(what if that someone else made a better MGS than him?)

[Tamazoid]

I thought "Kojima Productions" was an independent developer?

No, they are owned by Konami.

But Kojima has a lot of say with what he does. If he really wanted to step away from Metal Gear, he would have done so after MGS 3 (the original PS2 game).

I'm sure he wanted to, but then Konami would have given it to someone else.... and he can't have that.
(what if that someone else made a better MGS than him?)

Well after the original Metal Gear they did give it to another team without telling Kojima. They made Snake's Revenge which convinced Kojima to continue with the series as he called it "a crap little game." He most likely very protective of his franchise and doesn't want other people meddling with it.

[Adrock]

It has always seemed like Kojima has wanted to move on from Metal Gear but the people he leaves in charge don't have a lot of confidence or the same level of talent. They're always asking him to come back. I don't think Peace Walker was even Kojima's project from the start. Regarding its development, he said, "there was a lot of confusion within the team and it didn't proceed as I wanted it to. Therefore, I thought that I needed to jump in and do Peace Walker." The Metal Gear Rising team struggled without Kojima's direct input as well and the game was cancelled before restarting from scratch at Platinum Games.

On the 2 occasions where Kojima has left the series in other people's hands, we got the excellent and vastly underrated Ghost Babel and Portable Ops, by far the worst canon title in the Solid era. Maybe if they just stick to making 2D Metal Gear titles, Kojima could work on more non-Metal Gear projects.

[tendoboy1984]

It has always seemed like Kojima has wanted to move on from Metal Gear but the people he leaves in charge don't have a lot of confidence or the same level of talent. They're always asking him to come back. I don't think Peace Walker was even Kojima's project from the start. Regarding its development, he said, "there was a lot of confusion within the team and it didn't proceed as I wanted it to. Therefore, I thought that I needed to jump in and do Peace Walker." The Metal Gear Rising team struggled without Kojima's direct input as well and the game was cancelled before restarting from scratch at Platinum Games.

On the 2 occasions where Kojima has left the series in other people's hands, we got the excellent and vastly underrated Ghost Babel and Portable Ops, by far the worst canon title in the Solid era. Maybe if they just stick to making 2D Metal Gear titles, Kojima could work on more non-Metal Gear projects.

2D Metal Gear? That's definitely wishful thinking. The closest we'll get to a new 2D Metal Gear game is that Retro City Rampage 8-bit game. Metal Gear didn't become successful until METAL GEAR SOLID landed on the PS1. Hardly anyone even heard of the series before that.

[Evan_B]

Am I the only one who is not impressed with this game, still?

Color auras around characters just shows how weak the idea of a Smash Bros. game in HD is with complex, realistic characters. The majority of Nintendo's all-stars and bright and vivd and don't need a hue of color around them to be spotted. But the inclusion of a special gauge, while interesting, is kind of silly and acts as a portable Final Smash. That's a no-no for me unless it can be switched off.

I dunno, I mean, they're gonna get all kinds of crazy support for this game from a bunch of developers, but I still doubt the concept. The fact that they're getting MvC players and such doesn't make sense to me since the Smash Bros. style is so... decidedly non-Capcom. That, and it's a blatant rip-off of Smash Bros.. However, this will hopefully increase Sakurai's incentive to raise the bar with the next installment- someone's copied his baby, he sure as hell better fight back.

My suggestion would be to sign on the Project M devs.

EDIT: After, you know... reading through the page before this, I agree with some of the points made. Sony doesn't have a rich background and they barely have All-Stars. I mean, Parappa the Rappa is... he's not an All-Star. Plus, these characters barely have movesets that define them. You know, the characters Nintendo has chosen to put into Smash Bros. are recognizable most because their gameplay mechanics- the play style of the characters shaped the games they were in and made them very unique. Having Nathan Drake and a Killzone character in the same game doesn't make sense because they're essentially shooter characters, and are going to be shooting stuff. Sure, Sly has a decently recognizable moveset, but using the entire roster of weapons that Kratos has doesn't really focus on what made his gameplay style so addictive in the first place. Kirby, Mario, Samus, hell- even Link and Pokemon Trainer heavily utilize the mechanics that are seen in their games to better differentiate them. I'm not saying the characters in this game aren't going to have variety- I'm sure they'll try to milk the hell out of making them unique- but they won't have the recognizable movesets of Nintendo characters. Smash Bros. maps out every move simply and recognizably- there's a great deal of history and heritage to the movesets. What the hell is Parappa the Rappa going to use, a microphone?

[broodwars]

But the inclusion of a special gauge, while interesting, is kind of silly and acts as a portable Final Smash. That's a no-no for me unless it can be switched off.

Considering that the game's mechanics have players only kill-able through being hit by a character Special, you're not going to be able to switch them off.  I don't mind that mechanic so much, but I would like to also have the ability to get a kill by hitting an opponent irreparably off the stage or into a hazard.  If you're going to crib liberally from Smash Bros., you might as well take what makes that game's combat system work.  Plus, the stages they've shown so far (aside from the LittleBigPlanet one, which is neat) kind of suck, with too little environmental interaction and too simplistic layouts.

[Adrock]

2D Metal Gear? That's definitely wishful thinking. The closest we'll get to a new 2D Metal Gear game is that Retro City Rampage 8-bit game. Metal Gear didn't become successful until METAL GEAR SOLID landed on the PS1. Hardly anyone even heard of the series before that.

/facepalm

Do you even read people's posts? The point is that Kojima doesn't want other people screwing up his series so he keeps returning to Metal Gear. I was merely pointing out that the only time Metal Gear has turned out especially well without major input from Kojima was when the 2D Ghost Babel was released in 2000.

On a separate note, I would love a sequel to Ghost Babel.

Am I the only one who is not impressed with this game, still?

No, you're not. I'm looking forward to learning more about the game but I'm not impressed per se. Additionally, I don't particularly agree with your specfic qualms but that's just personal preference. I'm not impressed because the game lacks originality. I still like the concept.

You know, the characters Nintendo has chosen to put into Smash Bros. are recognizable most because their gameplay mechanics...

Come on, that's not even remotely true. Sakurai invented most of those moves.

[Evan_B]

Most of the characters in Smash Bros. are relatively based on their in-game selves. Sure, the Fox Triplets are up to interpretation and Captain Falcon is as well, but the characters attempt to draw from their source material as much as possible, in all truthfulness. The "All-Stars" of Sony have so very little to draw from.

[broodwars]

The "All-Stars" of Sony have so very little to draw from.

I disagree with that, though most of the franchises I'd reference are from before this console generation.  I'm really curious how they're going to differentiate the Shooter-based characters, because functionally there really is extremely little difference between a character like Nathan Drake and Col. Radec.  I suppose you can emphasize Radec as the King of long-range combat with his Sniper Rifle, but Drake's defining characteristic is not his combat but his dialogue and absurd climbing ability.  I don't know how you implement that into a 4-player brawler setting.

I think we're going to have a better impression of this game's character lineup once Sony reveals the rest of it.  Jak & Daxter; Ratchet & Clank; and Cole from Infamous are already practically confirmed, and all 3 of those have the potential to be really cool in this sort of setting.  I can imagine a Resistance character working pretty well as well due to the crazy weaponry that series has.  There's even a rumor going around that Sony commercial-mascot Kevin Butler might be a playable character (due to an IMDB listing, which is frequently changing), who could be pretty hilarious as a joke character.  If Sony can get Sega to allow Valkyria Chronicles characters in the game I'll be ecstatic. 

We've seen some oddball characters in the Smash Bros. games, so it should be interesting seeing what Sony comes up with for a character roster.

And Parrapa the Rapper uses a Boom Box to make his opponents dance themselves to death, along with a skateboard.