Topic: Nintendo Working on Xenoblade Chronicles Stock

[KDR_11k]

Supposedly their shipments were focused on major brick & mortar chains so online retailers had much less stock than e.g. Media Markt.

But, yes, I use VGChartz, ya know why? Because they are the best source of sales information we have access to!!

The problem is that VGChartz doesn't have more information than we do. If we don't know the number then they don't either but they won't tell you "we don't know", they make up something instead.

So the number ion VGChartz is exactly as reliable as me saying the game sold two million copies across Europe.

[Chocobo_Rider]

KDR-

Fair enough.  When a better database of sales becomes available I will use that one.

Otherwise, even the smallest bit of information is better than none.

[NWR_insanolord]

I wouldn't necessarily agree that unreliable data is better than no data. Maybe in some ways, but in others it's worse.

[Mop it up]

I'm pretty sure that VGChartz have methods which they use to guesstimate sales, but since they don't share them, people doubt that which they can't see.

[NWR_insanolord]

Regardless of their methods, they are often significantly off from the actual numbers. Drawing conclusions from numbers that have a decent chance of being completely wrong is just dumb.

[KDR_11k]

You trust them to be better than nothing purely because they store their data in a database? They know exactly as much as we do, they guess numbers based on that knowledge. When we don't know the numbers then theirs are 100% made up. There is absolutely no new information to be gained from VGChartz but you cited them for the claim that Xenoblade sold badly. Your claim there is based on absolutely nothing and merely baseless speculation.

[broodwars]

I'm pretty sure that VGChartz have methods which they use to guesstimate sales, but since they don't share them, people doubt that which they can't see.

I've seen a post or two in the past on that site from the Admins stating that they have contacts in gaming stores around the world, and that's how they get the numbers they use for their estimates.  The thing is, I don't really buy that.  That's too massive an operation to be believable for a grassroots site like this.

This whole situation, though, once again raises the (I believe) important question: why is NPD the only service that has concrete data on game sales, which you have to pay a large amount of cash to see?  You don't see this issue in movies, where we know the box office returns on even the extremely-poorly selling films?  We have the Nielson ratings for TV that is public knowledge, though their data-collection is extremely limited and antiquated in this day and age.  But in gaming, we only know how much a game sells if the publisher releases the numbers in a press release or if NPD deigns to inform us via their Top 10 multi-console sales.

[Sundoulos]

I've been hesitant to import the game because I was hoping that NOA might actually change their minds; if they haven't made some sort of announcement by the end of the year, I will probably finally go import route.

Still, this is great news for NOE; I hope the game continues to sell well and that their investment in the localization of this game ultimately pay off.  Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to not playing anything on my Wii.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Supposedly their shipments were focused on major brick & mortar chains so online retailers had much less stock than e.g. Media Markt.

But, yes, I use VGChartz, ya know why? Because they are the best source of sales information we have access to!!

The problem is that VGChartz doesn't have more information than we do. If we don't know the number then they don't either but they won't tell you "we don't know", they make up something instead.

So the number ion VGChartz is exactly as reliable as me saying the game sold two million copies across Europe.

The one area VGchartz is more reliable in then Joe Schmo is taking official numbers from Japan and America (well more so before NPD restricted that data) and just keeping a running total. But that is something anyone could do, but most don't.  More fringe games sales wise, especially those of which are seldom in the NPD top 10 are more suspect, but even then if there are official numbers one could estimate the percentage drop off based on history and previous official drops from month to month.

[Ceric]

  You don't see this issue in movies, where we know the box office returns on even the extremely-poorly selling films?  We have the Nielson ratings for TV that is public knowledge, though their data-collection is extremely limited and antiquated in this day and age.

Audience.
Plain and simply.  Movie/news industry is willing to fit those bill for movie numbers because the grab readers/viewers in the mainstream.  Nielson is about differentiating yourself in a market.

Game sales.  Well most people in the mainstream just don't care.  There isn't a IGDB that tells the voice actors, producers, etc. for game.  No truly national push.  What was the last game you saw a media push for?  Shoot, I'm a regular here, a 3DS early adopter, aka Target Demographic material for games and I haven't seen a game advertisement in any media for portables and consoles in about a month maybe two.  Whatever the week after opening week for Green Lantern was.

Anyways the point is that this is specific information that only a limited demographic cares about and it is costed accordingly.  There is a lot of this type of data available to the right parties at the right price.

[UltimatePartyBear]

There isn't a IGDB that tells the voice actors, producers, etc. for game.

It's beside the point, but Moby Games is like an IMDB for video games.  The IMDB itself stores video game credits, too.

[Crimm]

I guess Atlus got around to another batch of Radiant Historia. I'm not sure I would have ever found it if I had not reviewed it. I remember when 999 came out I was cursing Aksys for not making more copies. The only copy I saw is the one I bought until months after I beat it.

[Chocobo_Rider]

I don't know how many more ways to say it ...

When someone finds a better means of charting game sales, we'll all use it.  Until then, vgchartz is the best we've got.

As I said before, even the almighty NPD apparently doesn't account for many major online retailers such as Amazon.  So, what, we toss that out completely too?

[KDR_11k]

It does not matter how many times you say it because it is stupid. VGChartz is fabricating numbers with no basis in reality. It's not the best we've got, the best we've got is admitting we have no clue. NPD is better than that because they actually research things but replacing "we don't know" with complete bullshit is a step backwards. It's less knowledge than you had before. Not only do you gain no knowledge from these fake numbers you lose the knowledge that you don't know the real numbers.

VGChartz is pure, unadulterated misinformation and lies.

[BlackNMild2k1]

General rule of the forums.

If you quote VGChartz, be prepared for this reaction.

VGChartz has on numerous occasions been caught adjusting their "sourced" number to something radically different and more accurate once official numbers were made public. The founder of the site has been asked to source his info or or explain the inaccuracies and everytime it was met with more BS shoveled ontop of more BS.

If you are trying to have a serious discussion on sales figures, it's just best to not bring up anything that has anything to do with VGCz, as it should come with a disclaimer that "VGChartz is for entertainment purposes only. We can not and will not guarantee the accuracy of any of the information that we provide."

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't make a habit out of agreeing with KDR, but on this point I will: VGChartz is worse than nothing. I wish I could manipulate the filter like Crimm so I could make it so VGChartz is automatically converted to something more fittingly offensive.

[MegaByte]

http://gamejournos.com/post/10131327730/vgchartz-week-day-one-the-advertorials

Now let us never talk of that site again.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Alrighty...

1. Never said the folks at VGC were boy-scouts.  That article only makes them on par with every major video game media outlet in terms of ethics.  Aside from NWR, someone name a gaming news website that shows any priority of ethics and accuracy over traffic, pandering and baiting?

Kotaku? D-toid? GameTrailers? Joystiq? No, no, no and no.  So please, let's hear 'em...

Hell, I've been banned from Kotaku twice.... once for asking why a story about a toddler wearing wiimote sleeves as slippers was "newsworthy" and again for pointing out Brain Ashcraft's misinterpretation of a quote from Iwata.

They're (one of, if not the) biggest player in game journalism and they're, as that article puts it, morally bankrupt.  So again, show me the better site and I'll use it.

2. If there truly aren't any even remotely accurate sources for game sales (NPD, VGC, game journalists) how do people all over the internet (both journalists and users) go around spouting off about "this game sold better than that game by a margin of ____" ?

Seems like everyone is fine with having their own (apparently) baseless opinion, or gulping down the equally baseless opinion of journalists, but the problem arises when other people try to do it.

Have I missed anything?

PS - as reference for myself, I have a BA in Comm/Journalism, an MA in TV,Radio&Film and am working on a PhD dissertation regarding video game culture.  Both of my parents are college professors in Communication.

... I know media ethics, I know journalistic integrity.

Concerning any game-sales conversation that might take place, I will concede VGC isn't valuable.  But I still stand by my original sentiment... either someone names a better source for sales data, or I guess no one should discuss it anymore...?

Thoughts on that?

[broodwars]

Kotaku? D-toid? GameTrailers? Joystiq? No, no, no and no.  So please, let's hear 'em...

You are aware that Kotaku, Destructoid, and Joystiq are all enthusiast blogs, right?  Blogs aren't supposed to be "Teh Journalizm!" as we would sites for news reporting like CNN; Fox News; MSNBC; etc.  They're opinion websites run by and for enthusiasts.  And you're aware that GameTrailers is a multimedia site that mostly just hosts videos?  And what's your problem with Gametrailers, anyway?  They're a great site with probably the best multimedia coverage on the widest variety of games on the internet, not to mention their original video features.

[Oblivion]

@NinSage: IGN?

[Chocobo_Rider]

You are aware that Kotaku, Destructoid, and Joystiq are all enthusiast blogs, right?  Blogs aren't supposed to be "Teh Journalizm!" as we would sites for news reporting like CNN; Fox News; MSNBC; etc.  They're opinion websites run by and for enthusiasts.  And you're aware that GameTrailers is a multimedia site that mostly just hosts videos?  And what's your problem with Gametrailers, anyway?  They're a great site with probably the best multimedia coverage on the widest variety of games on the internet, not to mention their original video features.

Yea, I've heard that excuse before.  You might have a point if they didn't act as news outlets and have no problem getting (and counting on) the site traffic that comes with it.

Every non-journalistic item GT provides is stellar.  It is their coverage I take issue with.  Geoff and Pachter lead a three-ring circus of moronic predictions and hardcore pandering that rival the audience itself in terms of (lack of) quality.

In other words, you can't open a business performing surgeries, botch the procedure and then say "whoa, can't blame me, I never said I was a doctor."  Which is what that explanation boils down to.

@Oblivion

I have actually rarely visited them because the users over at GoNintendo always talk about IGN as some of the worst of the worst.

What should I (and those GN users) be made aware of?

[Oblivion]

Oh, I don't know, actually. I don't visit IGN either. I suggested them simply because you hadn't mentioned them. I usually visit around four difference sites to get my full news coverage. Having idiotic predictions from Kotaku and G4 are pretty much expected. I simply ignore them. That's why I like Nintendo-centric fan sites like NWR.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Having idiotic predictions from Kotaku and G4 are pretty much expected. I simply ignore them. That's why I like Nintendo-centric fan sites like NWR.

Precisely.  And that's a real shame.

[KDR_11k]

If you wonder why journalists talk about what sold well that's because their publications usually subscribe to the NPD report so they have the full numbers available. They are not allowed to release the numbers, of course.

[MegaByte]

Actually, NPD stopped giving out full numbers a few months ago.