Topic: Zelda II: F#(k This Game!!!!!!!

[Luigi Dude]

Zelda II is an example of a game that badly NEEDS a remake.  At it's core, it's actually a great game but has several flaws that really drag it down and for a lot of people make it way too frustrating to enjoy.  The thing is, all of Zelda II's flaws are easily fixable, like making it so you don't have to start over from the very beginning every time you die.  Just fixing things like that would make the game 100 times better and actually playable for the masses.

[noname2200]

I love Zelda II, although I know I'm in the minority. It's fast, fluid, really challenging, but rarely cheap.

I don't even really mind being sent back or losing experience with each game over: it strikes me as a fair penalty for dying, but one that's not too harsh. Most places, even far-flung ones, can be re-reached fairly quickly, thanks to the game's fairly tight design, and experience only exists in this game to reward the player's persistence, not to make the game beatable: this is strictly an action game, with the RPG elements being tacked on to make the game easier for players who prefer things to be (a little) less challenging.

I agree though that the start button would be better if it was mapped to the X Button.

[Chozo Ghost]

Interesting theory, but Iwata worked at HAL, not Nintendo, before he was an executive.

I thought he was largely involved in the design of the Gamecube and GBA?

[Oblivion]

I cannot stand more than 30 seconds of this game at a time.

[Mop it up]

I love Zelda II, although I know I'm in the minority.

I liked it too, it's one of my favourite NES games and one of the few I can still stand to play today. At that same time, I can understand why anyone who didn't play it (or at least owned an NES) during its time wouldn't like the game. Like many NES games, it shows its age, and it can be a frustrating game if you don't know where to go and what to do. If I played it for the first time today, I probably wouldn't like it either.

[TJ Spyke]

I don't think I ever played the game until I got the Zelda Collector's Edition disc for GameCube and don't know if I even played it then either.

[MegaByte]

So, the ending to this game is kind of weird, huh? You've presumably got two Princess Zeldas around, and Link's making out with the older one.

[broodwars]

I disagree that this was ever a "great game", but it was always an interesting one with some good ideas that just were never done well.  One thing's for sure, though: the game is a royal chore to play, and there are sections of it that are just unfair difficulty-wise.  The only way I'd ever like to see a true "remake", though, is if it was a smaller game released on Nintendo's digital download service.  The Zelda games are similar enough that I think any larger project would be pretty redundant, especially since the 3D games have incorporated and improved upon some of the mechanics this game started.  I'd certainly pay for a modern 2D digital download remake, though, just to have a version of the game that's actually playable.

[Chozo Ghost]

Zelda II is the reason why there was never a Zelda III

[BlackNMild2k1]

For the record, I just got past the island palace and traveled across the sea.
It's not so bad once you get the hammer and can get back to where you where with relative ease.

One tip though. Don't beat any palaces until you have already done all your grinding in the swamps. You get an automatic level up after every palace boss and it's pretty easy to level up past 1500exp in the swamps.
Also don't pick up any Link dolls you find. They give you a free life, but they only show up once and you only get to use them once, so just memorize where they are and save them for later.

[SixthAngel]

I love Zelda II.

So do I.  I also never thought starting at the palace or losing experience was too much of a penalty.   Once you get a few items everwhere opens up so well.

I love the way Link's abilities grow.  In the beginning spiders dropping down are a pain in the ass but later on you are upward thrusting them in the face and using spells like jump to leap over boomerang throwing guys.

I never got stuck because of the difficulty until the maze of death to get to the final palace.  That place always kicked my ass so I would have almost nothing left when I got to the final palace.  Save the 1ups for that BnM.

As long a tips are being given out I'll give one.  Stab every Darknut statue in the face, they sometimes drop bags of experience.  Of course sometimes a real darknut comes out and you have to fight him but it's worth it.

[Sundoulos]

So, the ending to this game is kind of weird, huh? You've presumably got two Princess Zeldas around, and Link's making out with the older one.

I had often wondered if the bizarre story was byproduct of the bad translations...I guess not, though.

Count me among those who love this game, warts and all.


Even after defeating the temple bosses, I always avoided putting the jewels in the statues until I needed them for the final experience levels.  It makes you do some backtracking, but you avoid having to do a bit of grinding late in the game.


I always loved the swordplay mechanics in this game.  The controls were tight, and the knockback that you saw when you connected with a Stalfos or Darknut seemed just right.  The only thing that was missing for me in Zelda II was the variety of items that was found in Zelda I.   The majority of the weapons in Zelda 2 simply functioned as keys to get to the next area of the game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Not a big fan of Zelda II but I appreciate how many elements from it were used in later games, whether it was the magic meter, to the side scrolling sections, towns, more structured world design (but that is can be debated as to whether it was a good or bad influence compared to Zelda 1's go anywhere world) amongst other things. It was an innovative game that just didn't come together, maybe even because of the 1 year development time (Something that likely impacted SMB2 Japan as well).

Also Miyamoto had a different role for Zelda II, he was the producer, someone else directed the game (Similar to Zelda now, where Aonuma produces and someone else directs). So yeah I appreciate what Zelda II did for the series, and even for gaming, but do I think it is a good game? Not really.

[Ceric]

I love Zelda II, although I know I'm in the minority. It's fast, fluid, really challenging, but rarely cheap.

I don't even really mind being sent back or losing experience with each game over: it strikes me as a fair penalty for dying, but one that's not too harsh. Most places, even far-flung ones, can be re-reached fairly quickly, thanks to the game's fairly tight design, and experience only exists in this game to reward the player's persistence, not to make the game beatable: this is strictly an action game, with the RPG elements being tacked on to make the game easier for players who prefer things to be (a little) less challenging.

I agree though that the start button would be better if it was mapped to the X Button.

I have to disagree a bit here.  I think that Sending you all the back to the start and the experience loss is to much.  One or the other.  I've always thought that.  This game has the potential to be great with some more polish.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Experience lost & sending you back to the beginning after "Game Over" is one thing, but you even lose the experience and get sent back to the beginning after saving too. now that sux.

And honestly, after getting the hammer, getting sent back is a minor annoyance.
After realizing how leveling up works, losing experience is a minor annoyance too.

I have 3 level ups to go to be maxed out at 8 on everything
(6 strength, 7 magic, 8 health)
and if I had realized that I automatically level up after putting the stone in every temple, then I wouldn't have done them right away until I was at 5 on everything. Beat the boss and then leave, do a little more grinding and level up. Come back later and put the stone in and level up again.

Before you have your downward thrust, swamps is the place to level up easily. (obvioulsy attack the slime and not the monster)
After your downward thrust is obtained, then head over to the sands across the ocean. hundreds of experience in minutes. And you want to do all that grinding the hard way in the early levels.


Quick Question.
Hows much further in the game do i have to go if I just used the flute to make the squid/octopus monster move to open up the southern path?

[Caliban]

Quick Question.
Hows much further in the game do i have to go if I just used the flute to make the squid/octopus monster move to open up the southern path?

You have 2 more temples to beat.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Quick Question.
Hows much further in the game do i have to go if I just used the flute to make the squid/octopus monster move to open up the southern path?

The crystal count on the pause screen is a hint to that.  Once you've placed all the crystals, the barrier at the final palace lifts.  So, yeah, you should have two left: the annoying Hidden Palace and the epic maze-like Great Palace.

Also, since there's not a very informative manual for the game on 3DS, and you might not figure it out on your own, the hammer can clear forests.  That's only important one time.


I really don't recall the game having sufficient hints built in for most of the late game content.  If it hadn't been for Nintendo Power, I'd never have finished it.  On this play-through, I've just reached the Island Palace.  I'm well ahead of where I usually am on levels somehow, too.  Probably from stopping to kill most of the bubbles I saw.

[Mop it up]

So, the ending to this game is kind of weird, huh? You've presumably got two Princess Zeldas around, and Link's making out with the older one.

I had often wondered if the bizarre story was byproduct of the bad translations...I guess not, though.

I think I'm missing something because I don't understand what you mean. How are there two princess Zeldas?

[MegaByte]

This Link is the same Link as in Zelda 1, several years later. In Zelda II, it is revealed that a Princess Zelda was put under a sleeping spell many generations ago, and this is the Zelda that you're rescuing, but the Zelda from the first game is presumably still around.

[Mop it up]

Huh, really? That's strange. I always thought that Zelda was put under a spell where she would go into a deep sleep should Link happen to defeat Ganon, and since he did so in Zelda 1, he now had to break the spell in Zelda II. I guess I'll have to pay closer attention to the story the next time I play the game.

[Sundoulos]

I don't think that it's explicity spelled out in the game, it's just sort of implied by the old manual. 

http://www.zeldacapital.com/manual/taolmanual.pdf

[MegaByte]

It is from the original Japanese manual though, not just something NOA made up. They even specifically say "another Zelda." I think it's interesting that the story originates several Zelda elements though. It explains the literal "Legend of Zelda." It introduces the Triforce of Courage, Link's tie to the Triforce, and the mark on his hand, Impa, etc. And it doesn't even have Ganon (unless you die).

[Mop it up]

Oh yeah, I remember reading that in the GBA manual. It says that every royal female child after that will be named Zelda, so I guess there are more than one.

And it doesn't even have Ganon (unless you die).

This may sound stupid, but I've always thought that Zelda II has the best game over screen. Some recent games have long or elaborate cutscenes when you fail, but Zelda II gets right to the point.

Game Over
Return of Ganon
*evil laughter*

[UncleBob]

It explains the literal "Legend of Zelda."

I've always loved the fact that the only game that actually talks about the "Legend of Zelda" is also the only game not titled "The Legend of Zelda"...

[MegaByte]

That irony did not escape me, but it was called The Legend of Zelda 2 in Japan.