Topic: Just when Microsoft thought they had gotten rid of homebrew forever...

[BranDonk Kong]

...homebrew (unsigned code) is now possible on ALL Xbox 360 consoles...I'm looking at you, Slim!

Actually they got rid of the JTAG hack over two years ago, so they've been hack-free (besides the dirty pirates and their dirty DVD-ROM firmware...which only allows...dirty "backups") for quite some time now. Well, that's all over with. Apparently this new hack is *unpatchable* so if you own an Xbox 360 right now, it can be exploited to run unsigned code. This is basically the best thing I've ever heard, because the Xbox 30 homebrew scene has been basically dead for a long time, due to the general difficulty in finding an exploitable console (one that hasn't been updated in almost 2.5 years), and thus the limited demand. Hopefully the scene really takes off now, since the potential is basically unlimited. Time to buy some consoles on Craig's List...

[TJ Spyke]

I have my doubts that it can't be fixed by patches from Microsoft, and I would expect MS to instantly ban any system they detect using this hack on Xbox Live.

[BranDonk Kong]

You won't even be able to use it on Live most likely, and of course it would be banned instantly, just like JTAG'ed consoles (though I think it actually takes anywhere from 40 minutes to 4 hours). This is a completely different kind of hack than the JTAG hack (and the original King Kong hack that the JTAG hack is based on), it's based upon actually glitching the CPU, and they can't change the CPU's behavior. They can build new consoles that don't have this bug, but that will probably take a very long time. The big thing is that instead of only being maybe a few hundred thousand exploitable consoles out there, there's now around 60 million exploitable consoles. Looks like I'll be adding something to my "day at the office" thread soon...

[that Baby guy]

I'm hoping to take advantage of this in the future, and use my 360 as a genuine media player that can play some currently unsupported formats of videos. I recently got a media hub to place the ripped contents of all my DVDs (Which, if you have several DVDs, takes forever), but I've been converting them to a .mkv container and doing some slight compression for space reasons. I don't believe the 360 can play anything in the .mkv format, but if homebrew brings over something like mPlayer or whatever a standard non-vlc homebrew video player is, it should be simple enough to do.

That said, I won't be taking a risk to do this if Microsoft begins banning modified consoles. Even though I won't be hacking games, I don't think it's worth the risk if MS starts showing genuine aggression towards those who do harmless modifications.

[MegaByte]

Seems to me like they could just alter their bootloader memcmp function (software) in such as way that isn't susceptible to the glitching. Probably the hackers could continue finding glitch points, but it would take a lot of time/luck.

[broodwars]

Gee, it's always nice to see the "honor among thieves" when it comes to hackers.  When the PS3 was hacked, all the hackers were using the excuse that "well, we're only doing it because Sony's been going after us!"  Microsoft has not made any major movements against the hackers in several years, and so it's more than a little hilarious that the 360 has been hacked again.

[that Baby guy]

Let's not get into a debate on the morality of simply running unsigned code here. There's nothing wrong with allowing a device to play a legally developed program that bypasses the device's security. That's all that's happened, and that's what this thread is about. Bringing the idea that hacking is wrong because of the potential illegal programs developed in response is unnecessary at this point. Since there's nothing wrong with actual code modifications to consoles like this, criticizing the motives of the hackers is irrelevant right now.

[Chozo Ghost]

Gee, it's always nice to see the "honor among thieves" when it comes to hackers.  When the PS3 was hacked, all the hackers were using the excuse that "well, we're only doing it because Sony's been going after us!"  Microsoft has not made any major movements against the hackers in several years, and so it's more than a little hilarious that the 360 has been hacked again.

No. That was the excuse used when PSN got hacked. That excuse wasn't used for hacking the PS3 because there is nothing wrong with consumers doing whatever they want to hardware they legally owned. No excuse needs to be offered for that. It wasn't until after Sony went after the hackers responsible that PSN got hacked as well and that was when the excuse was used.

Now if the hackers strike Xbox Live before Microsoft goes after the hackers responsible for this then you would have a point, but right now your argument isn't valid.

[TJ Spyke]

Actually, I recall seeing people (including here) try to justify the hackers as soon as they started it. As soon as Sony removed Linux, people started hacking the PS3 and people claimed they were justified for it.

[Chozo Ghost]

Actually, I recall seeing people (including here) try to justify the hackers as soon as they started it. As soon as Sony removed Linux, people started hacking the PS3 and people claimed they were justified for it.

Yeah. But it was Sony's response to this which triggered the PSN hack which some argued was justified on the basis of Sony's response in suing Geohotz and so on. That is what Broodwars was referring to. No one argued the Geohotz hack was justified because Sony was going after hackers. That was the argument used for the PSN hack. The Geohotz hack was argued to be justified due to the removal of Other OS. So there was different reasons. I just want to set the record straight.

And in any case, the Xbox or PS3 hardware can legally be hacked by its owners as long as it isn't done for piracy. You don't need to justify it because if you legally own it that is justification enough. But piracy is not justified because in that case you don't legally own it.

[NWR_insanolord]

And in any case, the Xbox or PS3 hardware can legally be hacked by its owners as long as it isn't done for piracy. You don't need to justify it because if you legally own it that is justification enough.

This.

[that Baby guy]

Actually, I recall seeing people (including here) try to justify the hackers as soon as they started it. As soon as Sony removed Linux, people started hacking the PS3 and people claimed they were justified for it.

People started hacking the PS3 after the Linux was removed as a response to the removal of an operating system that let them use their console in the manner of their choice. Before Linux was removed, the console was fairly open. People didn't have a need to modify it to play various programs and such. After Linux was removed, that wasn't the case, and in order to use the machines they had paid for in the ways they wished, they had to resort to hacking.

[BranDonk Kong]

I almost cry whenever I replace the drive or repair a YLOD on a backwards compatible PS3 that still has the "Install OtherOS" option. Anyway, I agree, this needs to justification, and this won't lead to any kind of Xbox Live "attacks" (though I'm sure Call of Duty modded lobbies will probably start being prevalent again). Xbox Live is already 1000x times more secure than PSN has ever been to begin with, but this wouldn't even begin to allow any type of attacks (other than potentially screwing up your ranking on COD if you join a lobby that you shouldn't be in, which hopefully won't happen to anyone).