Author Topic: Playing with Power: Harnessing the Nintendo Community (Read 19244 times)

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #50 on:** July 20, 2011, 09:24:45 PM »

@ Lindy

Fair enough ... got two follow-up questions though ...

1a. Why wouldn't smaller developers enjoy the cheaper development requirements?

1b. I still don't see how using similar architecture to a previous generation doesn't make things easier. Even if they didn't develop for Gamecube, it seems over time they would become knowledgeable about it. For example, I don't listen to emo music, but as a musician I'm familiar with the genre and its goings on.

2. What explains why even certain Wii exclusives from big companies do not have the robust mechanics or polish of certain PS2/GC titles? (I can't speak to XBox because I never owned one... only played the Halo games on a friend's box).

@ Ian Sane

Haha. Ya know that's certainly not the worst way to explain things =)

NWR_Lindy · « **Reply #51 on:** July 20, 2011, 11:21:19 PM »

1a) My reasoning is that the Wii wasn't cheaper to develop for as a small developer if you had to hire a whole new team, or train an existing one from scratch to work on the Wii hardware and create a whole new engine. And then you also took the chance that either the majority of the Wii audience wouldn't like your game, or the hardware wouldn't let you do what you wanted to do, or there was already a Nintendo game that owned your category.

On the other hand, you could just keep doing what your team knew how to do (PC/PS3/360), fully make the game you wanted to make, and triple the chance of recouping your costs by releasing it across three platforms with a minimum of additional time investment (PC to 360 would be easy, leaving the majority of porting effort to be put into PS3). Even better, you could add DLC into the mix post-launch and then double-dip with a Game of the Year Edition. None of this was possible on Wii.

1b) As for the similar architecture, that does make it easier...if you already have people on-board that have used that architecture. A lot of the third-party developers that have risen to prominence since the 2000s are coming from the PC world, not the console world. Bethesda, Bungie, Epic, Rockstar, Infinity Ward, they all started as PC developers with no GameCube experience at all. The ease of porting to 360 was what got them involved in the console space, and they were making more adult-oriented games to begin with, so they never deviated from that or felt a need to make something more "suited" to a Nintendo console.

2) I don't know. Maybe they hired the B-Team, which is entirely possible. Just because something is exclusive doesn't mean it's going to be good.

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #52 on:** July 21, 2011, 02:29:15 AM »

@ Lindy

1a) Good point. Thanks for explaining.

1b) Good enough point. Though, at least in my opinion, the spectrum of developers on that list (Bethesda, Bungie, Epic, Rockstar, Infinity Ward) is like a 3 color rainbow at best =P Not exactly the guys I'm concerned with ... maybe that's why I've enjoyed the Wii's offerings so much!

2) Exactly. And that's not cool!

NWR_Neal · « **Reply #53 on:** July 21, 2011, 04:17:06 PM »

Ninsage - I'm not saying it's not possible to do that style of Madden. I'm saying why the hell would you want it? Madden 08 was a PS2 port! The art style you're crapping on, in my eyes, looks way better than a PS2 game. I don't think it looks kiddy or any of that jazz. It's stylized. That's why I linked to the article I wrote, where you'll see that they didn't change the art style because they couldn't do realistic graphics, and they were influenced by things like Team Fortress 2 (Do people crap on that for not being realistic?) and The Incredibles.

Usually, when I'm in an argument, I see the other side's point of view. I honestly have no idea where you're coming from. I never knew an improved game that isn't a port was an issue and a detriment to EA and third parties.

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #54 on:** July 21, 2011, 07:42:43 PM »

@ Neal

You're absolutely misunderstanding me, my friend.

Quote from: NinSage on July 20, 2011, 03:44:50 AM

The cartoony style is fine...

I'm sorry if you think "fine" means "something I'm crapping on" =P

My only problem is that the message it sends is that the Wii is for kids, or that the Wii can't do "realistic" graphics. That is just especially lame to me when the same company puts those "mature/realistic" graphics on the PS2/P.

I also have no problem with games for kids, but with a high-profile franchise like Madden, and given their primary audience, it's just another humiliation piled on a severely underrated console.

If you don't think the graphics make the Wii version appear as the "kids version" then that's your perspective and I respect it. But do you really think most Madden fans share that perspective?

I mean, come on...
http://www.cinemablend.com/images/gallery/s24146/Madden_NFL_11_Cover_Athlete_12719497461311.jpg
http://gomadden.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/pic_wiimadden.jpg

Ceric · « **Reply #55 on:** July 21, 2011, 09:28:04 PM »

You know in the more realistic one he looks scared.

NWR_Neal · « **Reply #56 on:** July 21, 2011, 09:45:08 PM »

"Realistic" graphics on the Wii would look bad compared to 360/PS3. I don't think it'd be doing the system any favors.

Mop it up · « **Reply #57 on:** July 21, 2011, 09:59:50 PM »

Quote from: Ceric on July 21, 2011, 09:28:04 PM

You know in the more realistic one he looks scared.

You've seen the size of some of those football players, haven't you? I'd be pretty scared too if I saw several huge guys running at me with full force.

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #58 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:29:35 PM »

Quote from: NWR_Neal on July 21, 2011, 09:45:08 PM

"Realistic" graphics on the Wii would look bad compared to 360/PS3. I don't think it'd be doing the system any favors.

But not on PS2 or PSP?

TJ Spyke · « **Reply #59 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:38:05 PM »

At this point who is really buying the PS2 version of a sports game?

broodwars · « **Reply #60 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:45:02 PM »

Quote from: TJ Spyke on July 21, 2011, 11:38:05 PM

At this point who is really buying the PS2 version of a sports game?

Or PSP, for that matter. The PSP might as well not even exist outside of Japan these days.

NWR_Neal · « **Reply #61 on:** July 22, 2011, 02:52:35 AM »

Yes, I'm sure a Wii version that is a port of the PS2 version with waggle will appeal to sooooo many people.

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #62 on:** July 22, 2011, 10:00:01 AM »

@ TJ / brood

Enough people for EA to release them?

But let's not muddy the waters here, that's not really relevant to the point I'm trying to make =)

@ Neal

You've avoided the question... what will appeal more to fans of the Madden franchise?

Also, I've played two Madden games on Wii and I don't recall waggle in either of them. In fact, as I said above, the motion control in Madden '11 is downright sick. (Not sure if the point'n'click style was in M'10... never played it). I never wanna play another football sim without it!

NWR_Neal · « **Reply #63 on:** July 22, 2011, 12:44:04 PM »

Well, the 360/PS3 version, obviously.

The point of the Wii version isn't to get the same crowd; it's supposed to get a new one. Madden on Nintendo systems in the '00s has never been a big seller, especially compared to the other systems. EA did a smart thing and tried to attract a new audience with Madden on Wii instead of doing the same ol' port they've been doing for Nintendo systems since the late 64 years. I'd say, in all honesty, Madden on Wii hasn't done what EA wanted it to (it still doesn't sell too well), but as far as I can tell, that's their intention.

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #64 on:** July 22, 2011, 02:12:29 PM »

Yes, bad ideas tend to get bad results. =)

NWR_Neal · « **Reply #65 on:** July 22, 2011, 02:16:02 PM »

Results wouldn't be any better if they kept making PS2 ports...

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #66 on:** July 22, 2011, 08:30:51 PM »

So how 'bout this crazy idea: they actually put some effort into making a separate AND good version for the Wii!

NWR_Neal · « **Reply #67 on:** July 22, 2011, 08:41:53 PM »

...they did. Did you not just say you liked Madden 11? I enjoyed Madden 10 and 11 a whole lot. It's a separate AND good version. The idea for making a Wii-exclusive version of Madden might not be doing wonderful things sales-wise, but those games aren't bad. ****, when 2011 is all said and done, I imagine Madden 11 will likely be one of my favorite games of the year.

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #68 on:** July 23, 2011, 02:05:21 AM »

Just to minimize confusion, this would be my ideal ...

==="Realistic" aesthetics===
I dig cartoony, I really do... but not for something that is supposed to "simulate" non-fiction.

===Wii pointer functionality===
Best thing ever to happen to a football sim.

===Effort in Visuals===
Will it be HD? No. Can it look better than a PS2 port? Yes.

... is this so much to ask?! ^_^

NWR_insanolord · « **Reply #69 on:** July 23, 2011, 03:00:04 AM »

As someone who buys Madden every year, but switched from Wii to 360 a couple years ago, I'll say that I couldn't care less about the graphic design. If I were buying the Wii version I'd probably prefer the cartoony style, because it's something the Wii can achieve and not just look like a pale imitation of the other systems.

As for the pointer stuff, that is awesome, and probably the biggest thing I miss about the Wii game. I'm really looking forward to seeing what they'll do with the Wii U, as you could map a lot of that stuff to the touch screen while still having traditional controls for those who want them. I like the motion controls, but would probably rather play with traditional controls most of the time.

NWR_Neal · « **Reply #70 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:58:55 PM »

Everything you request is in Madden Wii these days.

I'm done with this conversation. I'll continue to enjoy Madden on Wii. You can continue to ignore it and wish for things that are actually happening but you don't notice it.

NWR_Lindy · « **Reply #71 on:** July 23, 2011, 05:22:11 PM »

Anyways, yeah, how about those Facebooks?

Chocobo_Rider · « **Reply #72 on:** July 23, 2011, 06:12:25 PM »

Quote from: NWR_Lindy on July 23, 2011, 05:22:11 PM

Anyways, yeah, how about those Facebooks?

Capcom did all sorts of community outreach for MML3.

It didn't matter. And their cancellation announcement was nearly as PR-esque as Nintendo's.

So ... now what? =)

News:

Author Topic: Playing with Power: Harnessing the Nintendo Community (Read 19244 times)