Author Topic: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?  (Read 34493 times)

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Offline Bman87301

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2011, 12:22:48 PM »
We all know Sony is going to rip this off at some point like they always do. Maybe when Sony rips it off they will do it right and allow more than one controller at a time. Its too bad the Wii is dead in the water, because Nintendo needs a new console like yesterday, so they have to rush something out ASAP. If it weren't for the Wii being dead I'd say they should wait until they can get this right before they release it, even if it means delaying it for another year. A delayed console is good eventually, but a rushed console is terrible forever.

I could be mistaken since I'm more focused on Nintendo news... but didn't Sony already announce this with PSV to PS3 connectivity?

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2011, 12:24:51 PM »
What I'm hoping now is that Nintendo will offer some screenless blue-tooth enabled Wavebird type controllers, so local multiplayer may be possible with that. It sucks if not everyone can get their own screen, but console gaming has gotten along fine up until this point without it. Yes, I know there is the classic controller, but that doesn't cut it in my opinion because for one thing it is tethered to the Wiimote, and for another thing I would prefer to see the GC controller layout return.
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Offline gbuell

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2011, 12:25:20 PM »
There's still a decent chance that the will still be capable of supporting two 'U Tablets' locally, if a developer chooses support that method

Developers won't be supporting that method if it's impossible to even purchase a second Wii U controller by itself: http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?46023-Wii-U-Controller-and-Console-must-be-purchased-together
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2011, 12:25:26 PM »
I'm wondering if the idea of Smash Bros is that one person will be on the U pad (what DO we call this thing?) and three other players are using the 3DS as a controller.

All the rumored video chipsets support multiple displays and the processor is going to have multiple cores. I'm guessing it wouldnt be possible with every game, but I dont see why they couldn't have more than one controller.

Offline gbuell

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2011, 12:26:59 PM »
What I'm hoping now is that Nintendo will offer some screenless blue-tooth enabled Wavebird type controllers, so local multiplayer may be possible with that.

If you're willing to accept that, what's wrong with Wii remotes? I know they have fewer buttons but most local multiplayer is just fine on the Wii without shoulder buttons etc (imo.)
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2011, 12:31:06 PM »
The problem is that with the Gamecube-GBA connectivity Nintendo was all about multiplayer.  They've kind of trained us to immediately think of Four Swords when we think of a screen in a controller.  And now this can't even do that sort of game?  I honestly think the appeal of this controller just went way downhill.  All I can really give us now is the same thing the DS was giving us years ago.

Of course we always figured the price would be a big problem and this is a way to get around it.  But it's like either way there's a big con.  Either we have to pay an insane price for controllers or we're limited to single player usage only for the screen controller.  Either way, this thing better be worth it and they better have some better ideas than Wii Series casual fare.  The idea requires so many compromises that it HAS to deliver.  It would be ridiculous if three years from now our screen controller is in the closet while we all play with Wii remotes and classic controllers because the big idea that dominated the controller was a dud.

I think Nintendo felt they needed a new gimmick to sell this console and struggled to come up with something.  The problem with the Wii's business model is that they caught lightning in a bottle and that was never going to be something they could easily do again.  Ideas like that come along once a generation and I mean HUMAN generation, not videogame.  You can't do that every time and if your target audience requires you to do so, you're going to lose them.

The Wii remote had some OBVIOUS appeal.  People saw that the character on screen moved as they moved.  HOLY ****!  I think it's a limited idea but it's a kneejerk gut feeling idea.  People always asked for the ability to do something like that.  What they really want is virtual reality and motion control has been the closest we've gotten to that.

Who is asking for this?  Where is the obvious instinctive desire to have a seperate screen on the controller?  It doesn't have that same obvious appeal so it feels forced.  And what I find really weird is that it does not continue in the direction of virtual reality.  They haven't expanded on motion control, the very thing that sold Wiis in the first place, and just did something else.  It's not at all the natural progression of it.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2011, 12:32:31 PM »
What I'm hoping now is that Nintendo will offer some screenless blue-tooth enabled Wavebird type controllers, so local multiplayer may be possible with that.

If you're willing to accept that, what's wrong with Wii remotes? I know they have fewer buttons but most local multiplayer is just fine on the Wii without shoulder buttons etc (imo.)

I hate waggle, and also the Wiimote lacks dual analog sticks. I also hate the ergonomics of it, and I feel like an idiot playing a video game with what appears to be a TV remote.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2011, 12:33:55 PM »
I find local 2 player co-op/splitscreen to be far more desirable anyway. Besides party games like Wii Sports, it tends to get cramped once 4 players become involved. For more players, online is definitely the way to go and you wouldn't have to worry about additional tablet controllers. 2 tablet controllers for local multiplayer is a must and I would gladly pay a little extra if Nintendo had to bump up the specs to make it happen.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2011, 12:36:32 PM »
We all know Sony is going to rip this off at some point like they always do. Maybe when Sony rips it off they will do it right and allow more than one controller at a time. Its too bad the Wii is dead in the water, because Nintendo needs a new console like yesterday, so they have to rush something out ASAP. If it weren't for the Wii being dead I'd say they should wait until they can get this right before they release it, even if it means delaying it for another year. A delayed console is good eventually, but a rushed console is terrible forever.

I could be mistaken since I'm more focused on Nintendo news... but didn't Sony already announce this with PSV to PS3 connectivity?

Yeah, but if people are bitching about "$100" controllers, what do you think they are gonna say about $250 PSV's? It's already similar to what they did with PSP, which was a more advanced connectivity than the GBA->GC.

If it doesn't come standard it likely won't get much support as it will just be too expensive to be used regularly by anyone. PSV-PS3/4 connectivity will just be a nice extra. Although Wuu making it standard does help the PSV->PS3 idea out a little since devs will already be doing it for Wuu.

Offline gbuell

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2011, 12:37:00 PM »
Ian, that's what confuses me the most - instead of doubling down on motion control, which I think everyone assumed they would do, they pulled a 180 (or a 90, or something) and went in yet another totally strange direction. Since the vast majority of my console gameplay is single player, I'm not too bothered by this whole single-controller issue, and I'm very open to seeing them come up with cool gameplay ideas using this screen, but it's definitely a head-scratcher so far.
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Offline Caterkiller

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2011, 12:39:21 PM »
For the guys who already hate the tablet then classic controller pros will be right up their ally. For me I want 4 of those tablets just to be greedy.

See I was under the impression that we would get new Crystal Cronicle and 4 swords type games with this controller. I'm sure we will, but I want it localy in my living room. I hate playing FPSs and Racing games on split screen now so one tablet for that is just fine. I just feel like 2d local side scrollers like DKC, Mario Bros, Sonic, and 4Swords type games can potentially suffer with out an extra couple tablets. But after processing it a bit more maybe 4Swords and Cronicles will suffer and the others wont. I'm conflicted.
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2011, 12:59:21 PM »
There's still a decent chance that the will still be capable of supporting two 'U Tablets' locally, if a developer chooses support that method

Developers won't be supporting that method if it's impossible to even purchase a second Wii U controller by itself: http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?46023-Wii-U-Controller-and-Console-must-be-purchased-together

Not necessarily, since friends could still bring over the 'U Tab' that came from their console. If they can, someone likely will at least support the option... they just won't design their game around it.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 01:01:14 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline gbuell

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2011, 01:04:45 PM »
There's still a decent chance that the will still be capable of supporting two 'U Tablets' locally, if a developer chooses support that method

Developers won't be supporting that method if it's impossible to even purchase a second Wii U controller by itself: http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?46023-Wii-U-Controller-and-Console-must-be-purchased-together

Not necessarily, since friends could still bring over the 'U Tab' that came from their console. If they can, someone likely will at least support the option... they just won't design their game around it.

Perhaps, but the operating system still needs to be designed to allow multiple video streams to multiple controllers. Even if the hardware is capable of it, that doesn't guarantee that it's something developers can implement.
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Offline oohhboy

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2011, 01:05:10 PM »
I don't think the specs are completely fixed or released yet, so there is still wiggle room for two controllers with real time video. The limiting factor right now has to be wireless bandwidth. While I am sure there are better wireless setups out there, currently with most home solutions don't have the bandwidth or stability to stream an AVI/MP4 file in SD resolutions to watch in real time. This is a compressed stream. Now you have to send Full/HD video wirelessly, in realtime, in a near/lossless manner that either require little or no processing to decode by the controller to save battery power. I can't speculate as to how the technical wizardry behind this, but considering the number of prerequisites, it's fairly bleeding edge.

A quick search turns this place up. It might not be the same tech, but the idea is related.

However, what hasn't been discounted is the use of two or more WiiU controllers at the same time with the screen in some fashion. It maybe possible to have some sort of interface on two controllers, but they may no longer display real time video with acceptable lag or some drastic cut in resolution. That would still allow for all the Madden plays and what not between two teams.

The possibilities of local asymmetric gameplay could be very cool. Imagine if you could play D&D with the DM messing with you on the tablet. No more dealing with piles of rule books. Or team games where one person plays as the coach/team leader passing out orders or airstrikes from orbit.

Currently almost all multiplayer games are symmetrical save a few like Zombie Panic. Asymmetric should prove very interesting if nothing else it is pretty fresh territory that has barely been explored.
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2011, 01:05:17 PM »
For the guys who already hate the tablet then classic controller pros will be right up their ally. For me I want 4 of those tablets just to be greedy.

See I was under the impression that we would get new Crystal Cronicle and 4 swords type games with this controller. I'm sure we will, but I want it localy in my living room. I hate playing FPSs and Racing games on split screen now so one tablet for that is just fine. I just feel like 2d local side scrollers like DKC, Mario Bros, Sonic, and 4Swords type games can potentially suffer with out an extra couple tablets. But after processing it a bit more maybe 4Swords and Cronicles will suffer and the others wont. I'm conflicted.

I kept trying to warn people not to get their hopes set on that idea... instead I got attacked.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2011, 01:08:48 PM »
For the guys who already hate the tablet then classic controller pros will be right up their ally. For me I want 4 of those tablets just to be greedy.

See I was under the impression that we would get new Crystal Cronicle and 4 swords type games with this controller. I'm sure we will, but I want it localy in my living room. I hate playing FPSs and Racing games on split screen now so one tablet for that is just fine. I just feel like 2d local side scrollers like DKC, Mario Bros, Sonic, and 4Swords type games can potentially suffer with out an extra couple tablets. But after processing it a bit more maybe 4Swords and Cronicles will suffer and the others wont. I'm conflicted.

I kept trying to warn people not to get their hopes set on that idea... instead I got attacked.

You never got attacked. It was a civil debate on what people thought would be revealed. You were wrong about most of it and got one aspect of it correct. But the over all image you were trying to paint is more accurate than the individual statements you were making.

Offline Joshums

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2011, 01:15:43 PM »
So what happens if you accidentally break your controller?  You have to buy a whole new system?
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2011, 01:18:17 PM »
There's still a decent chance that the will still be capable of supporting two 'U Tablets' locally, if a developer chooses support that method

Developers won't be supporting that method if it's impossible to even purchase a second Wii U controller by itself: http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?46023-Wii-U-Controller-and-Console-must-be-purchased-together

Not necessarily, since friends could still bring over the 'U Tab' that came from their console. If they can, someone likely will at least support the option... they just won't design their game around it.

Perhaps, but the operating system still needs to be designed to allow multiple video streams to multiple controllers. Even if the hardware is capable of it, that doesn't guarantee that it's something developers can implement.

Well if developers can't use it, then I'd classify that as having the same as meaning as 'not being capable of it'. But I wouldn't necessarily expect Nintendo to restrict its use unless it puts some kind of strain on the hardware. Then again, I wouldn't entirely rule out them doing that either...

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2011, 01:25:39 PM »
I don't think the specs are completely fixed or released yet, so there is still wiggle room for two controllers with real time video. The limiting factor right now has to be wireless bandwidth. While I am sure there are better wireless setups out there, currently with most home solutions don't have the bandwidth or stability to stream an AVI/MP4 file in SD resolutions to watch in real time. This is a compressed stream. Now you have to send Full/HD video wirelessly, in realtime, in a near/lossless manner that either require little or no processing to decode by the controller to save battery power. I can't speculate as to how the technical wizardry behind this, but considering the number of prerequisites, it's fairly bleeding edge.

A quick search turns this place up. It might not be the same tech, but the idea is related.

However, what hasn't been discounted is the use of two or more WiiU controllers at the same time with the screen in some fashion. It maybe possible to have some sort of interface on two controllers, but they may no longer display real time video with acceptable lag or some drastic cut in resolution. That would still allow for all the Madden plays and what not between two teams.

Instead of the Wireless streaming bandwidth being the bottleneck I think it might actually be the GPU/CPU processing and streaming 2-4 separate screens at once when the TV is off. Peoples ideas were to have one person playing an HD game while the other uses the extra controller to to Netflix or Angry Birds. Others had ideas to do even crazier things than that. That will require some very serious processing power as we already know it's possible to wirelessly stream to upto 6 devices at once relatively lag free.

Now I don't have a TOP of line PC with a TOP of the line GPU, but when I turn on an HD game with as many effects as possible and expect it to run at a decent framerate, I'm not sure my computer could handle streaming a Netflix movie to my TV at the same time with out severely lowing the quality and framerate of both the game and the show.
Maybe if they went with a strong dual GPU (I think the 4850 is a 4770x2) solution and a beefy POWER7 CPU (minimum 4 core), and that may still be possible, but then we probably wouldn't be seeing the small form factor they showed us yesterday and likely not at a price tag we would be willing to pay.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 01:27:38 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Bman87301

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2011, 01:33:38 PM »
For the guys who already hate the tablet then classic controller pros will be right up their ally. For me I want 4 of those tablets just to be greedy.

See I was under the impression that we would get new Crystal Cronicle and 4 swords type games with this controller. I'm sure we will, but I want it localy in my living room. I hate playing FPSs and Racing games on split screen now so one tablet for that is just fine. I just feel like 2d local side scrollers like DKC, Mario Bros, Sonic, and 4Swords type games can potentially suffer with out an extra couple tablets. But after processing it a bit more maybe 4Swords and Cronicles will suffer and the others wont. I'm conflicted.

I kept trying to warn people not to get their hopes set on that idea... instead I got attacked.

You never got attacked. It was a civil debate on what people thought would be revealed. You were wrong about most of it and got one aspect of it correct. But the over all image you were trying to paint is more accurate than the individual statements you were making.

Maybe not by you, but I was attacked by some.

No, I was pretty much entirely correct. Pretty much everything you tried to claim as me getting wrong was either twisted into being something it wasn't, or over some irrelevant bit of detail that didn't really relate to the debate at. So, you either just misunderstood what I meant, or simply chose to put words in my mouth in attempts to discredit me (I never said the tablet wouldn't be focus of the new console-- I was saying we needed to keep an open mind and not assume it was the main or only control input and suggested that it could  take the backseat other control methods-- which, depending how you look at it, it apparently will on occasion). As far as overall premise goes, I was 100% right.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 01:53:44 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2011, 01:40:02 PM »
Here is my guess: The Wii U will ship with a screen controller and a wiimote with motion plus. The pack in game will be a new incarnation of the Wii Sports as evidenced by the trailer:

single player golf using the wiimote as the club and the screen as the tee.
multiplayer baseball with the pitcher using the screen and the batter using the wiimote.

Nintendo is going to still push the wiiremote as the main local multiplayer controller.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2011, 01:52:04 PM »
[As for you, you either just misunderstood what I meant, or simply chose to put words in my mouth in attempts to discredit me (I never said the tablet wouldn't be focus of the new console-- I was saying we needed to keep an open mind and not assume it was the main or only control input and suggested that it could  take the backseat other control methods-- which, depending how you look at it, it apparently will on occasion). As far as overall premise goes, I was 100% right.

I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work, and not because you realistically think it will.

At this point, I expect this touch screen controller is going to be primarily, if not exclusively, for single player experiences (not counting online), and for giving you an option of playing away from the TV. It'll likely be an auxiliary controller, not the main controller-- which will most likely be another pointer-based controller (which works well for both single player experiences and multi-player parlor games anyway). This touch screen controller will appeal mainly to gamers. I don't see the casual crowd flocking to it, and I don't see Nintendo willing to lose them. Nintendo will be trying to lure in both. That's where this secondary controller comes in... It certainly won't be designed around multi-player.
You say it's kinda silly to assume what will definitely be the center point of the console won't be the main controller... That's assuming its intended purpose was to be a controller. I don't believe that to be the case. If its main intended function was for streaming and we just misinterpreted the leaked reports, then it's not silly at all. In fact, the idea that we'd be expected to have to likely pay $100 for each controller, is a lot sillier.

You were saying...?

Offline oohhboy

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2011, 02:10:47 PM »
Upon reading your posy BlackNmild, I ran a little experiment on my computer.

I started up a FullHD video broadcast from Freeview which I know uses up one core on my Core2Quad. I then started up and played some L4D2 since that is the newest game I have access to at this time on OSX that requires heavy GPU usage and multicore. I didn't have a second monitor to display the video feed while I play and one day I have to get around to testing my GFX card to see if it can do dual monitor.

While there was some stuttering caused by the game and OS reclaiming memory to use from closed apps, loading things on the fly etc, it was quite playable and the video in the background didn't miss a beat. With a reboot and doing this clean, it would more closely match what might happen on a console. If I check I probably still have a core to spare.

Now my machine isn't the newest thing on the block C2Q 9550 @ 2.83GHZ, N9800GT 512MB, 4GB RAM, but I more than expect the WiiU is have more power than I do, both CPU and GPU with a more streamlined OS meaning the bottle neck isn't going to be processing power.

The question then becomes, why would Nintendo waste an entire core on a mutlicore(This is a sure thing) processor just so it can do something non-gaming during gaming? It would be a waste of silicone completely lock off a core to do system tasks in which most of the time will be idle. This is a games machine, not a media hub.
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Offline Bman87301

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #48 on: June 08, 2011, 02:38:19 PM »
[As for you, you either just misunderstood what I meant, or simply chose to put words in my mouth in attempts to discredit me (I never said the tablet wouldn't be focus of the new console-- I was saying we needed to keep an open mind and not assume it was the main or only control input and suggested that it could  take the backseat other control methods-- which, depending how you look at it, it apparently will on occasion). As far as overall premise goes, I was 100% right.

I'm still quite confident that you're all kidding yourselves because you want to believe a local multi-player design could work, and not because you realistically think it will.

At this point, I expect this touch screen controller is going to be primarily, if not exclusively, for single player experiences (not counting online), and for giving you an option of playing away from the TV. It'll likely be an auxiliary controller, not the main controller-- which will most likely be another pointer-based controller (which works well for both single player experiences and multi-player parlor games anyway). This touch screen controller will appeal mainly to gamers. I don't see the casual crowd flocking to it, and I don't see Nintendo willing to lose them. Nintendo will be trying to lure in both. That's where this secondary controller comes in... It certainly won't be designed around multi-player.
You say it's kinda silly to assume what will definitely be the center point of the console won't be the main controller... That's assuming its intended purpose was to be a controller. I don't believe that to be the case. If its main intended function was for streaming and we just misinterpreted the leaked reports, then it's not silly at all. In fact, the idea that we'd be expected to have to likely pay $100 for each controller, is a lot sillier.

You were saying...?
 

 Um... whose side are you trying to back up with these quotes? I'm certainly not seeing any inconsistency.
 
It clearly isn't designed around the multiplayer model you were supporting... So how was I wrong there?
 
Secondly, since I was keeping an open mind about the possibility of there also being a new remote, which could have been considered the main control method in that scenario, and since even now, one could still argue that it serves more auxiliary purposes at times, especially since its uses are going to vary... that part was hardly wrong either.
 
Also, if you read it properly, you'll see I never disputed the tablet wouldn't still be the main focus point of the console (the tablet being the main focus of the console never meant it still had to be the main controller-- just the part that set it apart from its predecessor).

No matter how you're to trying to interpret it to make yourself feel right, I know what I said, I know what I meant, and I think it's equally clear to any objective observers.
 
The irony here is the more you keep trying to break my analysis apart, the more you actually seem to be proving it to be accurate in the first place. So, you're really only making yourself look foolish.

Seriously... let it go.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2011, 06:20:33 PM by Bman87301 »

Offline Caterkiller

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Re: My Thoughts: Two Wii U Controllers at Once Possible?
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2011, 02:47:55 PM »
OK look at this. Again I say it is possible for at least 2 which thinking about it now is fine by me. 4 tablets sounds like it is not going to happen.

http://kotaku.com/5809706/nintendo-looking-into-games-that-support-two-new-controllers

Quote
"We're considering our options with maybe two screens," Eguchi told Kotaku, who said he considers multiple New Controller games to be "an interesting idea." That would mean games that used two new Wii U controllers.


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