Author Topic: Official NFL Discussion: OK, Now You Can Count Out Touchdown Tom  (Read 175811 times)

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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2011, 08:24:54 PM »
It really depends on how you define overpaid. Going by the economic rule that the right price is where supply and demand meet, football, hockey, and basketball players, or at least some of them, are actually underpaid, as the salary cap acts as a price ceiling.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2011, 07:04:34 AM »
To be fair, not all. The TOP player in the National Lacrosse League (the top level indoor lacrosse league) is only $25K a year, the average is $14K. So most lacrosse players either also compete in Major League Lacrosse (which is outdoor lacrosse) or have non-sports jobs as well.
Alright, how can you even call yourself a Sports league at that price.  I feel that Professional Athletes should at least make a Middle Class wage so $50-70k.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2011, 09:23:52 AM »
No one gives a **** about lacrosse, lots of people give a **** about football, basketball, hockey, baseball, tennis, golf, auto racing, mixed martial arts and, everywhere else in the world except the US and Canada, soccer.  This isn't hard to understand.  The sport attracts a big audience and makes millions of dollars so the athletes make millions of dollars.  It isn't like some arbitrary rule, it is based on public interest in the sport and the money it attracts.

And this isn't something that's hard to measure like musical or acting talent.  Sports are simple win-or-lose games and the stats are pretty cut and dry.  The winners and the guys who put up big stats are the ones who make careers out of it.  Some of them are overvalued by lousy general managers but more than pretty much any business there is a clear incentive to have the truly best people at their job working for you.  These are very public businesses.  Because it is a very direct competition everyone knows which teams are being run well and which ones are not.  You do what some big corporations do where they hire through nepotism or have an old boys club and your team sucks and the fans know your team sucks and stop supporting you.  The best guitar player in the world might be stuck playing small clubs because he doesn't have the connections to get a major label deal or the money to promote his music to a wide audience.  The best football player in the world sure as hell is not struggling to make a living unless he is a total idiot.  If you have talent, you try out for you high school team, make it, go to college and play on that team and then get drafted by the NFL.  Yeah there are probably mid-level NFL talent guys who fall through the cracks but the absolute best of the best?  No way.  There are scouts with their eyes open at every level and if you truly stand out they WANT you on their team.  Plus it's an industry where playing office politics to get a raise is less important.  You can be the most socially awkward weirdo who gets along with nobody but if you lead the league in touchdowns that year, you've got job security.  The measurement of ability is so public that you can't get passed over because you aren't buddies with the boss.  Yeah as a coach that happens, but not as a player.

It's a multi-million dollar industry, the people most responsible for attracting customers are paid very well and, unlike most jobs, it is very easy to determine who is good at their job and who isn't.  It's not going to work perfectly but it works a whole **** load better than most jobs.

And just because you don't care about sports, doesn't make the athletes overpaid.  You can argue that sports don't deserve to be so popular but they are and within that it doesn't make sense to argue that people that attract millions of dollars in business don't deserve millions in salary.  I don't think Lady Gaga deserves to be as successful as she is in terms of musical merit BUT she is not overpaid because there is a large audience that wants to buy her albums and go to her concerts, even if I don't personally understand the appeal.

Offline noname2200

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2011, 09:30:38 AM »
To be fair, not all. The TOP player in the National Lacrosse League (the top level indoor lacrosse league) is only $25K a year, the average is $14K. So most lacrosse players either also compete in Major League Lacrosse (which is outdoor lacrosse) or have non-sports jobs as well.
Alright, how can you even call yourself a Sports league at that price.  I feel that Professional Athletes should at least make a Middle Class wage so $50-70k.

I can understand the sentiment, and for what it's worth I do think many athletes are overpaid, but you'd have to be a complete fool to take only $70k/year in exchange for becoming mincemeat by age 30. Remember that in football, there are few retired players who don't have some serious health issues. I wouldn't take a measly $100k/year for three years (the average player's lifespan in the NFL) in exchange for the serious possibility of being unable to lift my arms over my head after I hit 30.

Offline Ceric

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2011, 10:22:10 AM »
To be fair, not all. The TOP player in the National Lacrosse League (the top level indoor lacrosse league) is only $25K a year, the average is $14K. So most lacrosse players either also compete in Major League Lacrosse (which is outdoor lacrosse) or have non-sports jobs as well.
Alright, how can you even call yourself a Sports league at that price.  I feel that Professional Athletes should at least make a Middle Class wage so $50-70k.

I can understand the sentiment, and for what it's worth I do think many athletes are overpaid, but you'd have to be a complete fool to take only $70k/year in exchange for becoming mincemeat by age 30. Remember that in football, there are few retired players who don't have some serious health issues. I wouldn't take a measly $100k/year for three years (the average player's lifespan in the NFL) in exchange for the serious possibility of being unable to lift my arms over my head after I hit 30.
Agreed.

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My statement was in regards to the Lacrosse league.  Personally I have to know I be set for life after my athletic career to do a sport like Football, Boxing, etc.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2011, 12:50:27 PM »
Eventful weekend in the NFL. Philly now has two of the biggest Cal-alums playing for them, and I've always found their playstyle entertaining to watch, but Philly fans are still making it impossible for me to root for the team...

I am surprised to hear that Moss is retiring, since I was confident somebody was willing to give him another go. I feel as conflicted about him now as I did a decade ago: he belongs in the Hall of Fame, no question, but his personality makes it so hard to be happy about it. Still, his antics always did make things entertaining: I really hope that exchange with Brady actually took place, because it sounded awesome...

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2011, 11:09:05 AM »
noname what do you mean by Eagles fans are making it had to root for the team? Maybe I missed something.

Well the Eagles first preseason game is done and the team was fairly solid in their win. They added Vince Young as the second QB behind Vick. They also added Steve Smith that was with the Giants until recently. So far the team is looking nice as far as options go. I know it is just the preseason but things are looking up.
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Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2011, 11:35:27 AM »
I grew up near Philly. I know exactly what noname means.

I went to a Packers-Eagles preseason game at the Vet in the early '00s. I was something like 13-14. I went with my dad.  I've never seen fans be such assholes to Packers fans during the fourth quarter of a preseason when the players on the field likely wouldn't make either team. New York fans (despite me being a Yankee fan) are just as bad, but at least New York fans don't have "little brother" city syndrome like Philly does.

Anyway, Go Pack Go.
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2011, 03:13:19 PM »
Philly has the worst fans. Those guys are as rude as you can get.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2011, 12:11:08 PM »
As a die-hard Flyers fan, I'm going to take the high road and say maybe the reason you don't like Philly fans is because your teams suck.  :P
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Offline nickmitch

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2011, 12:29:35 PM »
My team has a Superbowl win. How many Superbowls have the Eagles won? Zero? Ok.

But seriously, I have a friend from Philly who confirms this.
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Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2011, 12:36:29 PM »
I get the impression that Philly is a hell hole.

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2011, 12:41:23 PM »
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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2011, 12:49:19 PM »
I was a little surprised when my Bills traded Lee Evans. I know he had a less than impressive season last year and they have plenty of other good wide receivers, but he had been a staple of the team for years.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2011, 12:55:20 PM »
They had a lot of depth at the position, and Evans wasn't even their top threat anymore after the breakout season of Steve Johnson. They also have a lot of holes in other positions, so it made sense to move him.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2011, 06:20:00 PM »
I know it's only the preseason and it doesn't actually mean anything, but at the half of the Browns-Packers game Colt McCoy is 9 for 10, with 135 yards and a TD. Really, the completion percentage is what excites me the most, and it's really impressive even if a lot of it came off a second-team defense.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2011, 04:26:23 PM »
noname what do you mean by Eagles fans are making it had to root for the team? Maybe I missed something.


No offense was intended. But something about the fandom in general rubs me wrong. Kind of like the Raiders do. The latter is particularly hard on me, since most of my family members are Raiders fans.  :-\ And since the remaining ones tend to be Niners fans, this Saturday's game is going to be interesting.

Or it would be, if we weren't all going to a wedding. Marriage. Boooo.


Offline noname2200

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2011, 04:08:28 PM »
So I haven't been around in years past, but do you guys do a Prediction League here? If not, is there any interest in getting one started? It's a fun way to win some easy bragging rights/public humiliation!

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2011, 06:51:14 PM »
I don't think we have done that before noname. I guess the closest would be who would win. I think what you are talking about is predicting the score and what are the stats of peticular players each game.
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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2011, 09:29:05 PM »
This may be a little late, but if people would be interested in an NWR Fantasy Football league I'd be happy to set one up. I think it would be a fun way to encourage football discussion here and to get everyone involved.

If you might want to participate, say something here so I can gauge interest. If enough people say something I'll set something up in the next week.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2011, 06:29:29 AM »
Twitter Post promised me a Fantasy Football League.
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Offline noname2200

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2011, 10:08:32 AM »
I don't think we have done that before noname. I guess the closest would be who would win. I think what you are talking about is predicting the score and what are the stats of peticular players each game.

I was thinking of something closer to "predict the winner."  Essentially, each week before the games begin I will put up a table/chart of the week's games. Each participant would select a winner for every game; I will keep track of everyone's wins and losses in a spreadsheet.

Each week will have its own winner (i.e. whoever had the most wins that week), and at the end of the year there will also be a season victor (i.e. whoever had the most wins throughout the season).

In order to break any ties, each player will submit not just who they think will win the Monday Night game, but also the final score for that game. Basically, the tie-breaker must not only correctly guess that night's winner, but also the total score for that night.*

It sounds more complicated than it really is, but ultimately I think it'd be a fun way for us to have some more football talk/trash talking/ bragging rights and awareness of games we normally wouldn't care about, but all without having to put too much energy into it. Basically show up by Saturday (or Wednesday, on select weeks), look at a list, make a few guesses, and play along.



*E.g. Players 1 and 2 are tied going into Monday. Player 1 predicts Team A will win, final score 21-14. Player 2 predicts Team A will win, final score 20-10. Team A ends up winning, final score 24-10. Player 1 wins the tie-breaker, because he not only guessed that Team A would win, but his total predicted score (35, i.e. 21+14) is closer to the actual total score for that night (34, i.e. 24+10).

This may be a little late, but if people would be interested in an NWR Fantasy Football league I'd be happy to set one up. I think it would be a fun way to encourage football discussion here and to get everyone involved.

If you might want to participate, say something here so I can gauge interest. If enough people say something I'll set something up in the next week.

 Fantasy Football has always been a little too involved for me, to be honest. I prefer to live that life vicariously through my friend and family members. But if everyone else wants to do Fantasy Football instead, I'd be willing to tag along.
 

Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2011, 11:23:15 AM »
We could do a site pick'em (pick the games. whoever gets the most right throughout the whole year wins).

I'd be willing to throw in a prize or something, too. Maybe a game or a mythical RFN t-shirt.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2011, 11:25:11 AM »
I never win these things, but I would be interested in participating.
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Official 2011 NFL Discussion: Lockout, schmockout!
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2011, 11:32:09 AM »
...a mythical RFN t-shirt.
I can see when there printed the site puts up a story.

THE Mythical RFN Shirts Have Arrived.  First X Customer get a PGC DVD with Purchase.
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