Topic: Episode 238: RFN Backstage Assault!

[Enner]

...
I was saying that I often regret looking at detailed, nuts-and-bolts guides to games like Pokemon and Demon Souls because the complexity of their gameplay systems is intimidating and makes me second-guess how I play the game. Of course it's a good thing that such guides exist.
...

It was already mentioned in the show, but it's really important to not have such anxiety from reading game guides and reading too much of them. I have limited experience with Demon's Souls despite owning it. From what I've seen and played, a player can be alright by treating the guides as recommendations and not something to be a slave to. Sure, you will make mistakes and won't have a perfect story run, but I think that can be part of the RPG fun. I guess in Demon's Souls case such anxiety can't be easily relieved due to the game's well-earned reputation of severely punishing any mistake or impatience from the player.

....
Anyway, yeah, It's a Mega Man game 

Mmm, sounds tasty. I almost beat Mega Man Zero without using any of the cyber elves. The last level(s) proved to be too frustrating with plain Zero so I bit the grade demerits and powered up. No regrets!

[Kytim89]

Who does the Randay Savage impression at the end of the episode?

[Retro Deckades]

It sounds like Jonny to me.

And speaking of Jonny, didn't he mention pining for some of the old, obscure 16-bit RPGs during the first listener mail response? I've recently acquired cartridges of SoulBlazer, Illusion of Gaia, Paladin's Quest (after his recommendation on Radio Trivia), Robotrek, and Secret of Evermore.

Excluding the last title, how awesome would it be to see some of these games show up on a retail release of an Enix Collection, or something of the sort? If priced right, it could even be a smart business move. Instead of releasing each game individually for 8 bucks on the Virtual Console, why not bundle a bunch and sell it for 35 or 40 bucks? You might get people spending more on the collection than buying them individually, especially if they only pick up one or two titles. Hell, pull a Kirby Super Star Ultra and release them on the VC once the collection has sold as much as it is going to.

[farnham]

I dont want to **** anymore on this episode but i want to make a few things clear about wrassling games.

1. AKI did have 3 games on GC. Def Jam Vendetta and Fight for New York (Vendetta is a wrassling game. FFNY is not) and Muscle Man (Kinniku Man) which has gameplay similar to the WWE Allstars games (Airjuggles and such)
2. GC had 4 WWE Wrassling games and they were all developed by Yukes. But Yukes actually managed to make them very similar to the No Mercy line of WWE games. especially DOR and DOR2 are widely considered to be spiritual successors to that games due to similar grappling systems and similar reversal systems (and with similar i mean identical)

[Chocobo_Rider]

An interesting episode.  I really think that most of it was quite good and enjoyable - the kind of RFN quality that I enjoy week in and week out.

I have but one gripe and then a few responses...

Gripe:
You really gotta know about things like checking new moves in pkmn before people go off on how atrocious the game design is.  I mean, hey, people make mistakes, but c'mon, you guys are better than that!

Responses:
1. I understand not wanting to play games "the right way" more than you guys could ever know.  But believe me, PKMN is the opposite of that kind of game.  The thing I love most about pkmn is the fact that you have NEAR INFINITE ways to craft the team YOU enjoy using most!  Even if you want to get into all the EV/IV/UV/TV bullsh*t, you still can choose what kind of TACTICS to employ.  Trust me.  Screw the guides, just relax and feel the game out for yourselves - you won't regret it.

2.  As for the MMX series.  1-3 are solid.  I thought X4 was friggin' BAD ASS.  X5 and 6 were kinda like "mmm, ok... wha?" and X7 was a cluster eff.  BUT .... X8 was an absolute return to glory as far as I'm concerned.  I loved that game so much and found it waaaaay better than every other game in the series except for X4.  I know that once a series starts to go downhill everyone assumes it just gets worse and worse.  But in my experience, X8 was truly the exception to that rule.

3. Jonny is absolutely entitled to his opinion on Fragile Dreams.  I consider myself pretty sensitive to unfair criticisms, and unnecessary jabs, but I think Jonny was justified in his critiques and I think it was obvious that he was poking fun more at his friend James than at the game or anime in general.

I, for one, am still greatly looking forward to playing the game as everything I've seen and heard makes me think I'll really love it.  The mechanics are apparently really bad, but, what can I say, things like atmosphere, story and aesthetic are where I derive the most enjoyment from my games!

4. I am very proud of the fact that I beat Solar Jetman back in the day.... it was an amazing gaming experience for its day and, to this day, still remains quite unique!!  .... I'd kind of love a modern remake ^_^

5. As for the "day one patch" mentality.  To me, the only reason it is an absolutely UNFORGIVABLE problem is because it means the developers cared more about getting the game out the door than they cared about me being able to play it in 10 years when that game-non-breaking patch is somehow unavailable.

One of the biggest ways the modern gaming industry is shooting itself in the foot is by making its products seem so fleeting in value. So many companies release a new iteration every year.  The multi-player competitive fixation makes the retail disc little more than a map pack with new weapons... and that's a real shame.

I appreciate my beloved games like classic films and I admire developers who create games with a similar mentality.  So I can't respect developers who start treating their products like direct-to-dvd films.  Made to cash in immediately but completely ignoring any long-term value. (granted, I understand actual budgets do not fit this analogy!)

Nintendo gets a lot of flak for taking a long time between games from a given franchise, but, lo and behold, when the games come out, they tend to become instant classics instead of flash-in-the-pan wonders! Go figure!

[KisakiProject]

I really enjoyed Fragile Dreams.  In fact last spring RFN read my letter to James Jones.  Its to bad you can't appreciate it Johnny.  But to each his own.  But you encouraged other people not to play it instead of stating something like "if your tastes are like mine you won't enjoy this." Seems a bit hostile? But I'm not here to hate.  I think people should play it.  Sorry you didn't like it and felt like you wasted your time.

[anand]

Hey, I'm playing the exact same games as James! Weird. (Maybe not, since one was on sale, and the other is a launch game, but still...)

And I agree with Jonny about the Hori controller. The D-Pad is just too stiff, although maybe it would be better once worn in. I didn't know it was valuable, either. I should sell mine, as well.

Have you guys ever played GBA games on the GB Player with an arcade stick? Pretty awesome.

[KisakiProject]

Thanks for the Panzer Dragoon plug.  I love those games.  I played all of them.  Also Johnny the story is the best.  Dunno why you don't enjoy it.  I love those games.  I literally just after 10 years of meaning to do it bought saga.  Its gotta be the most Unique 32 bit JRPG I've ever played.  I dunno if its worth $200 (unless your a hardcore Panzer fan like me) but from playing through the first disc of it this may be the best 32 bit game I've ever played.  After I beat it I'll make a topic for it in the non Nintendo forums.

I'll buy a Kinect to Play Project Draco if that wasn't vaporware.

[anand]

AfterBurner Climax is kind of like Panzer Dragoon.

[Chocobo_Rider]

You know, I admittedly did not pay much attention to Nintendo in the N64/Gamecube days.  What can I say? I loved me some PlayStation.  Thus, I had never seen that Hori controller-ma-bob before.  It looks so awesome!! I know it's a bit gimmicky and the retention of the GC-style buttons is a bit silly... but I love the concept of it!

I remember when the GC came out I played it in an EB games and thought to myself: "this is unquestionably the strangest (worst?) controller I've ever held."  So that Hori deal might have been just what the doctor ordered!

Also, I played one of the Panzer Dragoon games at a friend's place in college.  It was really fun.  [blasphemy] perhaps even more fun than the StarFox games I've played. [/blasphemy].  Did SEGA have the rights to that franchise? I would love to see it make a comeback with controls like S+P2!

[FZeroBoyo]

Sometimes, I get a bit concerned about "playing the game wrong" which is why I tend to avoid guides. That said, I only go to Serebii.net to figure out which Pokemon can be found where, when and how they evolve, etc. I hardly use them for battle strategies and whatnot.


I really enjoyed the talk of wrestling games (Backstage Assault and the resulting stinger was priceless.) and I have played some of the N64 wrestling titles which were pretty good. I agree that they have to capture the feeling of wrestling more than trying to make it into a fighting game because it's really not as you said.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Sometimes, I get a bit concerned about "playing the game wrong" which is why I tend to avoid guides. That said, I only go to Serebii.net to figure out which Pokemon can be found where, when and how they evolve, etc. I hardly use them for battle strategies and whatnot.

Same here. My use of guides for Pokémon is almost exclusively for the evolutions; in recent games, especially the Diamond and Pearl generation, a lot of the methods for evolving the new Pokémon have been really obscure. As well as there being new evolutions for Pokémon who didn't have them in previous generations, there's a lot of weird stuff like levelling up with a empty space in the party, or levelling up in a very specific location. I do wonder how anybody can be expected to figure some of that out for themselves.
Battle strategies, on the other hand, I'm not concerned about. I generally just try to keep my team as varied as possible in terms of types so that all my bases are covered.

[KisakiProject]

How is it blasphemy to say Panzer Dragoon is better than Starfox?  Starfox is a cool engine form Dylan Cuthbert with some cute non offensive characters thrown on it.  Its basically an overly glorified tech demo.

PD is a tech demo to show off Saturn.  However Team Andormeda and Smilebit put in huge efforts.  They invented a language.  There are thousands of pages of art and back story.  I love Starfox but its sophomoric effort compared to Panzer Dragoon.

So nothing wrong with your statement Ninsage.

Also Sega does own the rights.  That's why the new game from M$ by the some of the key people from Team Andromeda is called "Project Draco."  Sega still has rights but god knows they would ruin a new PD unless it was the Valkyria Chronicles team doing an RPG of it.  But hell they woudls till ruin it cause they woudl replace th Moebius inspired art with MOE anime crap.

[twingloxx]

Regarding the bug in Ghost Recon Shadow Wars. It can be avoided simply by turning the wifi off while playing.


Not to excuse the exceptionally poor QA by Ubisoft, but it would be a shame if anyone missed out on one of the best 3DS games so far thinking it was unplayable.

[gojira]

I have to disagree a bit with Jonny about being able to play Pokemon wrong.  With the inclusion of the move deleter, the move relearner and the option to buy many of the best moves in the game you can fix any goof you might have made.  And as someone mentioned earlier, you can see the stats of a new move.

Because of this I always play Pokemon 99% of the way through just using the ones I think look cute or cool or whatever.  Once I get to the Elite 4 then I usually need to look to the web to tweak my team a bit.

[Jonnyboy117]

I think some of those features are new to the series? I played many hours of Diamond, but over half of that was digging for fossils. The actual Pokemon gameplay disappointed me, as it hadn't changed much since I'd played Blue and Crystal. That's why I have skipped the series ever since and am still waiting to see if they ever overhaul it.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Ah, I suppose that could be.  I've only played Platinum, SoulSilver and now White.  So maybe it was a change for Generation 4+?  Can any long, long timers confirm/deny??

As for the inch-worm's pace at which the franchise makes improvements, I have to say that there are some aspects of the games that remain frustratingly unchanged.  So much so that not long ago I made a blog post about not playing anymore PKMN games until they made an official MMO.  Which, I really think is the "manifest destiny" of the series.  I know some poke-fans would wildly disagree with me.  But, doesn't the franchise seem like it's basically just an MMO where everyone plays separately?

But, not long after that post, I saw some of the artwork for the game and heard about some of the new online features and well, I bit hook line and sinker.  As of right now, I don't regret it at all.  I'm loving the new game and am loving crafting my perfect team.

 

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Ah, I suppose that could be.  I've only played Platinum, SoulSilver and now White.  So maybe it was a change for Generation 4+?  Can any long, long timers confirm/deny??

I'm fairly sure all of those elements have been around since at least the Gold and Silver generation, and you've always been able to check your stats during the forget/learn move process even going back to Red and Blue.

Anyway, the majority of gameplay advancements to the Pokémon franchise that I yearn for are related to the structure of the game. The battle system, at this point, is totally sound in my view.

[gojira]

The move deleter was definitely added in Silver.  Because I had taught my Mewtwo strength.      And I was able to transfer him over to silver to have him forget it

[ShyGuy]

I thought PKMN was short for Pikmin, not Pokemon. I feel like I just cracked the Nintendo Da Vinci Code.

[ShyGuy]

Fragile is what Ico wishes it was.

[NWR_insanolord]

As for the Xbox Live Indie Game making you blow the dust out of the cartridge, Dark Void Zero on DSiWare (great game, by the way) makes you do that too, and you actually have to blow into the microphone to do it. As you might expect, it's cute the first couple times, and then just annoying.

[Ceric]

I have the Hori Digital controller which I bought, ironically, on a stop I made when slogging through the snow to UncleBob's Faceball event and I have never used it.  I don't even know where its at right this sec.
 
Formula for an X game:
 
1.  Start with Superflous intro stage.
2.  Scattered enhancements away from boss.
3.  Make Animal Robots Villians.
4.  Add some Angst.
5.  Kill Zero.
 
Mammoths leaping ability are like Leopards didn't you know that.
 
There is a lot of X in Zero series.  Not sure about the newest one.
 
RE4 is the first one I liked to.  Even though I didn't slaughter through it till the Wii version.
 
I hate when they send you back like that.  One of the reason I didn't finish WW.
 
A SpaceShip Bird .
 
If your going to do an Info Break I demand Funny Ads come back.
 
Like the BBC losing Doctor Who things.
 
Quantum Fighter.
 
Yes Dear god Yes.  Blast Corp and Jet Force Gemini.
 
Like Ratchet and Clank a lot on the PS3. Need to get the second game.
 
We did get a Pong Remake back in the day and it was good.
 
Intillevision was the one with the dial on it right and the slide in overlays. (How else would you play Tron with its native controls?)
There was a Robber and Burglar sort of like Pacman game that was really good. 
 
Seen Claymates but that whole Claymation on SNES was sort of weird.  There was a game like that with an environmental theme on the NES that I remember being good but I can't remember the name.
 
Crystalis was a pain till the God Sended guide the Nintendo Power was released. (Wish the old style comics from then would come back.)
 
I like to play all of the Mother series.
 
Little Nemo is a game I always wantted to play.
 
I don't remember the world getting destroyed, everyone mutated, and a floating city in 1999 I think that was the date in the original Crystalis.
 
I want the Panzer series.
 
Have you tried the Download stations with the 3DS.  A DS download station connection will throw you into the DS operating system.  I figure the DSiWare shop will be the same.

I hate the point system.  I had to get 1000 point to buy the 800 point game for the Retroactive.
 
Thats not true.  They gave us a video with dogs in it in an update.
 
It is expensive and I was at the DS launch this has to be better then that.
 
Zelda will fulfill the tradition set by TP and have a dual Wii/Super Wii launch. : : : : : : : : : :
 
Conduit Forever.
 
Pandora for eShop Confirmed : : : : : : : : : .  Seriously would you rather have the PS3 first FF where you see it for years?
 
Of course wrestling will use 3D.  I hope it uses the motion sensing and the Camera.
 
and I would love the N64 Boomerange control come back.. (Still mad Sony copped out on changing the PS3 controller.)
 
Just putting in the depth would be nice in a wrestling game.  Just don't force it in.
 
I hear that Shadow War has a problem.  Ah there it is.  I like to see every version of the Advance War series have a show on 3DS.
 
You said it. Ubisoft is a big company.  Lets of Process and Red tape.
 
What stops from writing directly to the cart for patches?  It is flash in the end.
 
Honestly you have a known system and with known input.  There shouldn't be any game breaking problems in a shipped game.  I'm ok with patches to fix artifacting bugs and like but not gamebreaking bugs.
 
Every game most people play today on PC so you have to first thing get a patch of some sort.
 
I know people to this day can't get wired and don't have wireless to a console.
 
Yes you would.  Later game comes with that patch.

[Crimm]

The formula for a Mega Man Zero game is the same as an X game, but replace Zero with X and X with Zero


1.  Start with Superflous intro stage.
2.  Scattered enhancements away from boss.
3.  Make Animal Robots Villians.
4.  Add some Angst.
5.  Kill X.

[Ceric]

The formula for a Mega Man Zero game is the same as an X game, but replace Zero with X and X with Zero


1.  Start with Superflous intro stage.
2.  Scattered enhancements away from boss.
3.  Make Animal Robots Villians.
4.  Add some Angst.
5.  Kill X.

Except add in "Throughout give away the huge secret."  The First Zero game was much better when I played it in Japanese and didn't know it was       X      at the end.