Topic: The State of TV: Sci-Fi Edition

[MaryJane]

I was inspired to start this thread today by watching The Jetsons on Boomerang. At first I was thinking about how it's a little scary how badly we underestimate the future, then I started about other shows that also underestimated the future, and of course that led me into thinking about Sci-Fi.


Now, for TVs sake, the overall Star Trek universe (besides Enterprise) is my favorite Sci-Fi series ever, with X-Files and Fringe coming in close behind. I've seen the Stargate movie twice now, but I still can't get into the series. I don't know what it is, but I just got bored of the second season VERY quickly. I've also never seen Battlestar Galactica, but it's one of those series that I meant to give a try and somehow never get around to it. I've also never seen Firefly, but I've seen Serenity and loved it (though I don't agree with the interwebs that is was the best Sci-Fi movie ever).


Sci-Fi is one of my favorite genres because of how imaginative it is, and I love to read books about it, and watch TV and movies on it. The problem is these series often do not have a mass market appeal. Even Fringe, which thank the gods was picked up for another season, has a very low fanbase but hopefully it's enough to satiate Fox's Friday quota, along with all the deliberate product placement.


So what is it? Are there not enough nerds in the country? Are nerds too picky? Or are they so tech savvy that they simply download Fringe on torrents and others? OR is it that the series they come out with simply aren't compelling enough? I loved every series of Star Trek when I was a kid; the original, TNG, DS9, and Voyager. Then of course there was X-Files which was great and long running, then there were other things like Outer Limits which did a lot of Sci-Fi and even Twilight Zone had a lot of Sci-Fi(ish) stories.


Nowadays, we've gotten shows like Surface which I thought was great but failed after only one, very intriguing season. It was rough, but it had promise. Journeyman was also pretty decent, and got cancelled. I've already mentioned Firefly, and while I haven't seen the series, it's hard to imagine that the series that spawned such a good movie only deserved one season. DarkAngel was weak, as was Dollhouse (even though I did watch the entire first season, but the season finale was terrible and I was almost horrified that they brought it back for a second season) Flashforward could have been better but was okay, and I also like Eureka and Andromeda. So within that kind of broad scope of Sci-Fi, all have failed, and I wonder what is the secret to success?


What is missing from recent Sci-Fi that isn't drawing people in? Is it just the state of our society as a whole, that science is no longer popular? Do people no longer dream of what's happening beyond the stars because their blinded by their own self-importance and need for fame even on the level of their peers? Is the expense of creating the special effects needed for Sci-Fi too much to support a middling viewerbase? Can a new Star Trek series, based off the newest movie work? I really don't want to see the Sci-Fi genre die from TV shows, but that seems to be steadily happening, nothing ever seems good enough to steadily hold its viewers.


Beyond my questions, discuss favorites, sleepers, and trainwrecks, that others might have missed.


Edit: I also wanted to ask if HBO or another movie channel doing a new Sci-Fi show like they did originally did with Stargate could reinvigorate the genre.

[NWR_insanolord]

You've got to remember that all the Star Trek series (except the original) were either syndicated (TNG, DS9) or on a network with a lot lower expectations (Voyager and Enterprise were on UPN), which let them be more successful than they would have been as traditional major network shows.

Sci-Fi shows just aren't in a good position right now. The networks see them as not being capable of bringing in good numbers, and they don't usually fit in with the style cable networks go for.

[Morari]

Sci-fi shows are unfortunately rather expensive to make, due to make-up, specialized sets, and obligatory special effects. Top that off with the requirement of a good writing team, and the genre doesn't look very appealing to most producers. Sci-fi appeals to so few people, that it's never been a very profitable business to be in. It requires a fanbase that is not only imaginative enough to appreciate the lofty settings, but also intelligent enough to grasp the more serious plots and real world allusions. Not a lot of people like that make up your general television audience.

As you point out, a premium channel would have a good chance. I've never watched the Stargate series, personally. It seems that given the niche appeal and budget constraints however, that'd be the place for good sci-fi nowadays.

Actually, I've recently taken to gathering up older sci-fi shows that I missed out on during their original runs. They may not equal up to the Star Trek and X-files episodes that I was busying myself with at the time, but most of them have been good enough to watch through now that the genre is being largely ignored.

Can a new Star Trek series, based off the newest movie work?

Would. Not. Watch.

I'm a huge Trekkie, but absolutely hated that last film. It was everything Star Trek shouldn't be. It was all flash and action, with no real exploration or intelligence. It was Star Trek trying to be Star Wars in an attempt to trade one aging fanbase in for a newer, younger, easier to please one.

[apdude]

The problem is that the general public can't get behind suspending belief enough to just accept the show and follow the story.  If they see someone in alien make up they instantly just turn off.  That's why I think Firefly was a Sci-Fi show that would probably be better recieved now than when it originally aired because while it is set in a Sci-Fi world it doesn't really focus on aliens or special effects, or tech jargon.

Farscape was one of my favorite Sci-Fi shows.  Who doesn't love Muppets in Space?!

[Stogi]

I'd be interested in a Sci-Fi show if HBO or Showtime made one.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I wish either HBO or Showtime had picked up Firefly

[NWR_insanolord]

If I were really rich, instead of wasting my money feeding the hungry and curing diseases, I'd use it to pick up great TV shows that got canceled and continue making them for release on Netflix/Hulu/etc.

[Morari]

I'd go in halves with you on Twin Peaks...

[NWR_insanolord]

I've never seen that one. I think it's coming to Netflix Instant soon, like maybe today, so I'll throw it on my queue.

[apdude]

I don't have showtime or HBO, but I watch it sometimes when I'm traveling for work.  I don't know if they would really do Sci Fi any better. 

I saw all of one episode of True Blood and that show is a trainwreck.  I'm not really into the whole vampire thing anyway and maybe you had to see it from the begining but it really made no sense to me and it was so slow and plodding that it was pretty much unwatchable.  The only reason people would even want to watch it would be for all the blood and what not if that's their thing. 

I'm pretty sure this was just a cash grab into the whole vampire thing but it's basicly a shock version of any crap that could be on the neworks.

[NWR_insanolord]

If HBO or AMC were to do a Sci-Fi show I'd be hugely interested, given the quality of the stuff they've done. The idea of a sci-fi show as well-done as The Wire or Breaking Bad is very, very intriguing (though, if it had stayed as good as it was in the first two seasons and come together better at the end, that would be how I'd describe Battlestar Galactica).

[Stogi]

LOL True Blood has been a train wreck since the second season, but even the first season was pretty incoherent. It's a guilty pleasure show. There's lots of nudity, blood, and vampires. Do not base HBO off of that alone.

Next time watch Boardwalk Empire.

[apdude]

There also seems to be alot more SciFi on the BBC nowadays.  Not sure the quality is really that great, but Doctor Who is a fun little distration.  Kind of like McGuiver with a time machine.

[MaryJane]

If American adults were more accepting of non-humorous "cartoons" I would think more shows like Star Wars: The Clone Wars would come out. I like that show, and it's quite obvious it would be far too expensive to do live-action, and you would also have to use different actors, so it fits well.  That would curb the cost of the show, but as I said before, it's a cartoon and for some reason people can't take them serious. They should make a Sci-Fi show about how science will be so widespread one day, that Sci-Fi shows will be as readily made as reality shows; that would certainly classify it as fiction...

[ShyGuy]

Some of my favorites of all time were Sci-Fi, but I am kind of picky when it comes to the genre.

X-Files
Buffy*
Angel*
Lost
SuperNatural*

*- do these qualify?

[Morari]

I've never seen that one [Twin Peaks]. I think it's coming to Netflix Instant soon, like maybe today, so I'll throw it on my queue.

I'd definitely recommend it if you're in the mood for a more surreal, humorous X-Files. I'm a huge David Lynch fan though, so I'm probably a bit biased. Unfortunately, the show left off on a cliff hanger at the end of season two (it's final season). Also, due to the nature of the narrative, a good chunk of season two revolves around boring side stories starring characters no one really cares about.

There also seems to be alot more SciFi on the BBC nowadays.  Not sure the quality is really that great, but Doctor Who is a fun little distration.  Kind of like McGuiver with a time machine.

While I have enjoyed the newer Doctor Who, I don't think it really has the staying power the older series. The new series makes far too many pop culture references that will quickly date it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Some of my favorites of all time were Sci-Fi, but I am kind of picky when it comes to the genre.

X-Files
Buffy*
Angel*
Lost
SuperNatural*

*- do these qualify?

I think all of those fall under Supernatural (which should be MJ's next themed topic), and I'm referring to the genre, not just the TV show.

[broodwars]

It's disappointing that so many people disliked Enterprise.  That was a not a bad series, even before the show got tremendously better in Seasons 3 and 4.  While the show had its faults that it gradually corrected, I have a feeling much of the hatred is a mis-directed response to Star Trek Voyager and Insurrection/Nemesis, who really ran the Trek franchise into the ground.  When taken on its own merits, it's a fine show that I enjoyed watching nearly every week with a cast I enjoyed seeing on-screen (who didn't have that annoying arrogance that most Star Trek series have where the characters seem to think they've "evolved BEYOND lesser peoples".)

As for the state of Science Fiction, what more really is there to say?  We're in the middle of a global economic recession, with notable exceptions Sci-Fi's always had a niche appeal, and Sci-Fi shows are expensive to produce and hard to catch the attention of fans.  Despite my love for Science Fiction, I have to admit I've never seen more than the occasional partial episode of StarGate or its decendents.  Nothing against the show, but by the time I had any interest in it the show had gone on for so long I didn't think I could possibly join in at that point and fully appreciate it.  I'm at the same point with Dr. Who: I've heard a great many good things about it, but at this point with that show's incredibly long run I don't know if I could get onboard and still appreciate it.

While I'm currently watching (somewhat under duress.  It's one of my best friend's favorite shows, so we tend to watch it together) the comically sloppily-written and edited Fringe, the last Sci-Fi show I tried to watch was Caprica.  Man, that show was a mess on so many levels.  And before that was Battlestar Galactica, a show that would have been nearly perfect if most of Season 4 (including the ending) didn't exist.  I've heard that "Siffy" is making another prequel series to BSG that's going to focus on the Cylon War that should be great, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[NWR_insanolord]

All of Stargate (I'm pretty sure all three series) and Doctor Who are on Netflix Instant, and I have them in my queue, but I understand that there's pretty much no way I'll ever get around to them.

[Morari]

It's disappointing that so many people disliked Enterprise.  That was a not a bad series, even before the show got tremendously better in Seasons 3 and 4.  While the show had its faults that it gradually corrected, I have a feeling much of the hatred is a mis-directed response to Star Trek Voyager and Insurrection/Nemesis, who really ran the Trek franchise into the ground.  When taken on its own merits, it's a fine show that I enjoyed watching nearly every week with a cast I enjoyed seeing on-screen (who didn't have that annoying arrogance that most Star Trek series have where the characters seem to think they've "evolved BEYOND lesser peoples".)

I've stated my opinion on Star Trek elsewhere on the forums before. But since you brought it up...

Enterprise was a good show. I absolutely hated Season 3 though. The Xindi conspiracy was far too boring to dedicate literally every episode of an entire season to. That portion of the series was dull and plodding with little to no pay off. They should have continued to explain away the Temporal Cold War through the occasional episode instead. Aside from a season-sized mistep, the only other real problem was the final episode. I don't know of a single person who actually liked the finale though.

I liked Voyager. I've never understood why it gets so much hate. The characters themselves were a bit cheesier than they should have been, but it wore off quickly enough (except for Tom Paris). Besides, it had two of the best characters of the franchise: The Doctor and Seven of Nine.

My least favorite series has always been Deep Space Nine. I thought that the majority of the characters were dull, with the only real exceptions being transplants like O'Brien and Wolf, or the always under-utilized Garak. I felt that the show fell pretty hard toward the end anyway. It, like Enterprise, suffered from a terribly boring war story during the last two (three?) seasons. Add onto that the utterly ridiculous inclusion and validation of the Bajorian religion and it became pretty damn laughable by the finale.

Despite their flaws, I've yet to see a Star Trek series that hasn't been worth watching. Even the Animated Series is worth sitting through.

[broodwars]

Aside from a season-sized mistep, the only other real problem was the final episode. I don't know of a single person who actually liked the finale though.

I liked the Xindi story.  Sure, it was stretched-out way too far (they could have easily trimmed down the "searching" section of the arc a good 4-5 episodes and lost nothing), but the sheer amount punishment the Enterprise takes in that season goes far beyond what you see on every other Star Trek series and there's a pretty epic finale.

And I haven't seen a single person who didn't like the final episode of Enterprise: Terra Prime.  That's right, "Terra Prime".  Any other episode you may have thought followed that one was just a figment of our collective imagination.   

[Morari]

And I haven't seen a single person who didn't like the final episode of Enterprise: Terra Prime.  That's right, "Terra Prime".  Any other episode you may have thought followed that one was just a figment of our collective imagination.   

Ha!

[NWR_insanolord]

Morari, I still don't understand how you, or anyone, can not love Deep Space 9. I thought the war storyline was great; it showed a different side of the Federation that you'd never seen before or since. Calling the characters dull is mind-boggling. No other Trek has as good a set of characters (save maybe the original series, but that's not really a fair comparison), though I will agree with you that Garak was great and should have been more of a factor. DS9 is the only show where I felt that the female characters were among the strongest (though, to be fair, it's been a while since I've seen Voyager; it's coming to Netflix this month, so maybe that will get me to watch it again, even though I own the DVDs). I never thought Worf was that good of a character on TNG (hell, TNG is probably my least favorite Trek series), but DS9's writing staff made me love him.

Deep Space 9 is really ahead of its time. It's hard to imagine that a darker, more complex, serialized show was from the '90s.

[Morari]

DS9 is the only show where I felt that the female characters were among the strongest.

Dax was one of the better characters. I thought that Kira was ridiculously annoying however. She was bitchy and cried all of the time, yet somehow always had a romantic interest on the show.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't remember Kira being like that too much. Sure, she would get that way sometimes, it was part of her character, but I never felt that it became a problem. And what love interests did she have besides that priest guy and Odo?