Author Topic: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?  (Read 148165 times)

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Online broodwars

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #550 on: December 09, 2010, 05:27:17 PM »
The problem is that while I agree with you, Ian, about such matters, the oh-so-precious casual audience that Nintendo has courted this generation doesn't care about these things.  They only buy a couple of games a year, so they're happy just staying with whatever handful of (IMO Shovelware) Wii ____ titles and the occasional Mario or Zelda that Nintendo tosses to them every year.  The casuals do not buy as much downloadable software as we do and do not buy much software in general, so they do not care about the storage problem or Demos.  The casuals only care about online in that they sometimes purchase $1 Aps for their iPhone, so they don't care about Online.  We do, but what we want costs money and Nintendo (as a company) unfortunately apparently cares more about making money than they do having artistic integrity and pushing the boundaries of the gaming experience.  Until the casual decide they want what we want, I don't think we're going to see it from Nintendo.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 06:21:26 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #551 on: December 09, 2010, 06:18:24 PM »
There sure are a lot of assumptions in this thread about what "casuals" want. I know some people who would be classified as "casuals" by certain self-righteous gamers on message boards who would love to create levels in games like New Super Mario Brothers Wii and who also play games online. Nintendo also is trying to court "casuals" into taking their systems online, the Wii even comes with a video advertising online features and explaining how to get connected. I think that's the problem with these labels is that there really isn't just two clear-cut groups who want this and don't care about that and all that nonsense.

The Wii series isn't shovelware because they are quality titles that Nintendo tailors to make good use of their controllers. It's a sad day in gaming when anything that appeals to one's idea of "casual" is instantly labeled as shovelware.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #552 on: December 09, 2010, 06:20:25 PM »
Which Would be preferable for Nintendo to adopt online similar to Microsoft or Sony? I ahve never used either of these features so I am not sure which would be good. Although the virtual console should have an interface similar to Itunes or Amazon.
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #553 on: December 09, 2010, 06:21:51 PM »
@broodwars

haha, very true. At one time i was a hardcore gamer, and now im a casual. When the economy is bad casual is the way to go, very few people can afford to be hardcore gamers right now. It costs a lot to buy every accessory and every game, and all the download titles. To be a hardcore gamer you have to: have a great job that pays well, but at the same time have enough free time to play games, or be a spoiled kid(like i was in the n64 era), have a crappy job and no aspirations to also have a decent social life, have a sugar daddy or sugar mama, be a married person because between a married couple they can afford games, be a parent because its like a write off if you buy stuff for your kids. Otherwise any aspirations to play games all the time just doesn't work.
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Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #554 on: December 09, 2010, 06:25:50 PM »
Casuals play online games all the time on Facebook. Nintendo should want to capitalize on that market by making a better online service.
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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #555 on: December 09, 2010, 06:26:23 PM »
It's a sad day in gaming when anything that appeals to one's idea of "casual" is instantly labeled as shovelware.

I don't bash on the Wii _____ games for being casual.  I bash on them for being little more than proofs of concept, somewhat polished demos of actual games slapped together instead of developing any one of them into fuller, richer experiences.  I call them shovelware because they're easy games Nintendo programmers and designers can practically do in their sleep, likely cost little money to produce, have little to no production values, and have very little depth.  Can they be fun for 20 minutes or whatnot?  Sure, but they're nothing I'd want to play for any extended period of time.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 06:32:47 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #556 on: December 09, 2010, 06:34:41 PM »
The Wii Sports series isn't meant to be a fuller, richer experience, it's meant to be a quick pick-up-and-play game and there's nothing wrong with that. Same with Wii Play. Wii Music is supposed to be a simple music game where the musically impaired can still have fun, people who want more depth have Guitar Hero and Rock Band. Wii Fit is for exercising and yoga. Wii Party is a minigame collection so it's got a lot of variety to it.

If these games weren't designed to be what they are then you would have a point, so bashing them because they aren't what you want doesn't make sense.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #557 on: December 09, 2010, 06:44:03 PM »
yeah i play bejeweled bltz all the time
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #558 on: December 09, 2010, 06:46:46 PM »
Well, Perm, I don't have oodles of time to play games as much as I used to but when I put some serious playtime into a title I want it to be good.  I ain't casual in the sense that the Wii Series turns my crank.  I want the same variety and the same quality as I did when I had more time or more disposable income, even if I can't play the same amount of games I used to.
 
Quote
Which Would be preferable for Nintendo to adopt online similar to Microsoft or Sony? I ahve never used either of these features so I am not sure which would be good. Although the virtual console should have an interface similar to Itunes or Amazon.

I like how both Nintendo's and Sony's are free.  Honestly just ditching friend codes would make a world of difference.  You should be able to easily setup games with your friends or be matched up with strangers if you prefer.  One thing someone on another forum was mentioning that is so simple is how the Wii's online store is so inferior to the other ones.  The descriptions are often not very good, demos are rare, you only can see about five games on screen at once and there is no way to just view by text, the screenshots are all really tiny and there are no videos.  I never really thought about that but, yeah, that's a pretty weak interface.  Little details like that can make all the difference.  Nintendo's inexperience due to their luddite attitude towards online last gen hurts them.  Nintendo really just needs to catch up to today's online standards.
 
Quote

There sure are a lot of assumptions in this thread about what "casuals" want.

I honestly think that casuals just want something they can easily get into.  I think Nintendo overcompensates huge.  Wii Sports doesn't need to be little more than a polished demo.  It just needs to be that tennis game where you swing the racket yourself and has to be designed with an interface where you can easily start a quick game.  The lack of options and lack of depth I think is largely unnecessary and is probably done more because Nintendo can get away with being lazy.  As long as casuals can get the game mode they want to play easily it should be fine.  Putting in the OPTION to increase difficulty or customize the game or use more complex controls will not scare them off.  Rock Band would be a grand example since it has really high difficulty levels but casuals love it because they can just select an easy setting or play in "no fail" mode.  It's a game that truly all gamers love.
 
I would argue that Wii Music is a good example of the Wii Series being shovelware.  The game is full of public domain music and music Nintendo already owns.  Is that to cater to casuals or is it Nintendo cheaping out and spending the least amount of money as possible?  To me the Wii Series is Nintendo making the least amount of game they feel they can get away with and that's why I hate it.  It's everything wrong with shitty Pokemon spinoffs taken to another level.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #559 on: December 09, 2010, 06:58:59 PM »
I honestly think that casuals just want something they can easily get into.  I think Nintendo overcompensates huge.  Wii Sports doesn't need to be little more than a polished demo.  It just needs to be that tennis game where you swing the racket yourself and has to be designed with an interface where you can easily start a quick game.  The lack of options and lack of depth I think is largely unnecessary. As long as casuals can get the game mode they want to play easily it should be fine.
I agree with this to some extent, but it depends on the game. Since Wii Sports is a pack-in game, I think it is fine as it is, it doesn't need anything more to it. A stand-alone, full-priced game though, should take an approach similar to Mario Kart Wii, which I feel has the right idea. It has the option of using automatic or manual drifting, which makes it easy for newcomers to pick up without removing the mechanic. It also has a lot of gameplay options like local and online multiplayer, instead of replacing local with online like too many games do these days. Another example is the Super Guide that appears in new Mario games and Donkey Kong Country Returns, which allows games to have challenging stages but offers help to those who want it.

This is one of those things that will take some time before it's done right. Nintendo was probably unsure of where they needed to start to make games accessible to everyone, so they started with the minimum. From here, I think Nintendo will figure out exactly what kind of features they can include in games to appeal to everyone without removing options and depth, and better design their games for all audiences.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #560 on: December 10, 2010, 07:03:11 PM »
Nintendo seems to have a habit of imitating Apple, so in what ways will they copy Apple with the Wii 2?
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #561 on: December 10, 2010, 08:50:46 PM »
They are gonna over price it but people will buy it anyway because it's Apple Nintendo and then force their superiority on others to justify their own over priced purchase?

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #562 on: December 10, 2010, 10:53:24 PM »
Nintendo seems to have a habit of imitating Apple, so in what ways will they copy Apple with the Wii 2?
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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #563 on: December 10, 2010, 11:13:52 PM »
Nintendo hasn't really copied Apple in anything beside the look of the hardware. That will probably continue, as well as maybe a bit of influence in the UI (though the Wii's channel layout is already fairly close to the iOS look, and it came out before the original iPhone).
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #564 on: December 11, 2010, 12:05:46 AM »
Here is how I see Nintendo imitating Apple with the Wii 2:
 
Nintendo will develop its own OS for the Wii 2 that is similar to Apple's IOS and has an umbrella of connectivity with the 3DS. This OS adopted by Nintendo will crucial to operate the new and improved Wii shop channel, which has an interface similar to the Itunes store (or Amzon.com).
 
I read some where that Apple is making their latest devices in colors of white, platnium/grey and black, so I see Nintendo releasing the Wii 2 in similar colors to what Apple is making its new machines. I looked over my Ipod Shuffle and made the connection that its white glossy finish is the same as that of the Wii, so I will not be surprised to see the Wii 2 with the same finish as the Ipad or the Iphone.
 
I mentioned before how the wii 2 will most likely have the same dimensions as the 360 slim, well I would like to add to that assumption. Keeping Nintendo's mimicry of Apple in mind, the wii 2 could also look like a closed Macbook or an Ibook. These units are big enough to house HD components and it seems to fit Nintendo's size MO.
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Offline Adrock

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #565 on: December 11, 2010, 02:53:39 AM »
As far as I know, Nintendo already develops and has always developed its own operating system for their hardware. The only company I can think of that used an OS not internally developed is Sega with Dreamcast which used an optimized version of Windows CE and apparently, that wasn't even its main operating system.

It sounds like you're just describing what you want to happen rather than basing this on anything in particular. The entire Mac line, besides the white Macbook, is carved out of a solid piece of aluminum. It's sturdier than plastic, but it only really makes sense for the Macbook Pro line because laptops are meant to be carried around so that sturdiness actually serves a purpose. For the iMac, it's just for show. That said, it'd make more sense for the shell of the 3DS to be aluminum, but seeing as it's not only plastic but Nintendo cheaped out again and made the screens, particularly the bottom touchscreen, out of plastic (rather than more scratch resistant glass), I presume Wii 2 will also employ a plastic shell. There's just no real reason for Nintendo to use an aluminum shell for their next console and "it looks cool" is not a good enough reason for typically cost-cutting Nintendo. The only thing Nintendo really copied from Apple was the minimalistic glossy white design for Wii and DS Lite so that imitation is hardly what I'd consider a "habit." Everything else Nintendo does is decidedly anti-Apple. If you just mean colors, then yeah, I think Nintendo is past their whole we-need-to-stand-out-so-let's-make-our-products-purple stage. A black matte finish shell would be my guess as it's simple and likely the cheapest choice.

I actually don't expect Wii 2 to be the same dimensions as the 360 slim. That still seems too large, especially if Nintendo moved away from disc-based media.

Offline ThePerm

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #566 on: December 11, 2010, 03:25:21 AM »
aluminum is cheap, and probably cheaper than the plastic they use. Maybe Nintendo will do it to be more environmentally friendly.....there was some silly green site lampooning nintendo for their type of plastic.
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #567 on: December 11, 2010, 08:53:44 AM »
Aluminum is not, and will never be, cheaper than plastic.

Also, Nintendo making their consoles small is due to them being a Japanese company, and everything in Japan is smaller. 2/3 of Americans probably can't fit into a Japanese mid-size car.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #568 on: December 11, 2010, 11:29:24 AM »
Aluminum is not, and will never be, cheaper than plastic.

Also, Nintendo making their consoles small is due to them being a Japanese company, and everything in Japan is smaller. 2/3 of Americans probably can't fit into a Japanese mid-size car.

Plastic is a petro-chemical, which is dependant on oil. I would bet that  the cost of production for plastic spikes when the price of oil goes up. This adds into costs. Unless Nintendo is using some kind of cheaper type of plastic to off set costs.
 
If Nintendo is going to make the Wii 2 have HD components, then it will have to be bigger than the Wii 2. I remeber a while back I stated that I wanted the Wii 2 to be smaller than the Wii and BnM convinced me that if it is going to be HD then it will have to be bigger than the Wii. I am now convinced that the Wii 2 will have the same size scale to either the PS3 slim or 360 slim. Of course if they wait for the component pieces to get smaller then I could see the Wii 2 being slight smaller, but not much.
 
I do not see Nintendo abandoning dics based media. They will most likely adopt their holo-discs as their own version of blu-ray or some kind of further modified DVD with a max capacity of 16 GB. I want to say HD-DVD, but that idea has been beaten to death so far.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #569 on: December 11, 2010, 12:56:34 PM »
I convinced you of Wii2 size!?
I'm not gonna pretend to remember everything I've ever said, but can you link me to that discussion?

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #570 on: December 11, 2010, 01:44:57 PM »
I convinced you of Wii2 size!?
I'm not gonna pretend to remember everything I've ever said, but can you link me to that discussion?

My apologies, but it was actually TJ Spyke who said that to me.
 
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Offline MaryJane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #571 on: December 11, 2010, 01:47:11 PM »
@Kytim

"If Nintendo is going to make the Wii 2 have HD components, then it will have to bigger than the Wii 2."

The Wii 2 is going to be bigger than itself?

I mentioned this before, but, there are smartphones, PMPs, and netbooks that are all smaller than the Wii and can output HD content.

Petro-chemical vs metal has nothing to do with the cost of aluminum and plastic. It's about abundance and manufacturing. Why do you think scrap yards pay people for recycling aluminum? It is an expensive commodity, and will always be more expensive than easily available and manufactured plastic. And you're right about rising costs of petroleum, but because of that they're already looking for viable substitutes that will make plastic continue its manufacturing appeal: low cost.

Edit: And where are you getting this idea of Nintendo using holo discs from? BluRay is already ridiculously large for gaming, and Nintendo has its own disc format for which it does not have to pay licensing fees. If they don't use BluRay for the Wii2, they simply use higher capacity NintenDiscs (made that up).
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 02:02:23 PM by MaryJane »
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #572 on: December 11, 2010, 02:00:43 PM »
@Kytim

"If Nintendo is going to make the Wii 2 have HD components, then it will have to bigger than the Wii 2."

The Wii 2 is going to be bigger than itself?

I mentioned this before, but, there are smartphones, PMPs, and netbooks that are all smaller than the Wii and can output HD content.

Petro-chemical vs metal has nothing to do with the cost of aluminum and plastic. It's about abundance and manufacturing. Why do you think scrap yards pay people for recycling aluminum? It is an expensive commodity, and will always be more expensive than easily available and manufactured plastic. And you're right about rising costs of petroleum, but because of that they're already looking for viable substitutes that will make plastic continue its manufacturing appeal: low cost.

I meant bigger than the Wii, sorry.
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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #573 on: December 11, 2010, 02:27:47 PM »
Lol, I know what you meant, I was trying to have some fun, mostly so you would know my arguments were not malacious. We all make mistakes like that :)
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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #574 on: December 14, 2010, 09:07:40 PM »
hmm, i dont know a six pack of colas can be as low as $1, and thats significantly more material then needed for a case. I've been out purchasing plastic resin materials, and it was always expensive. I however could never buy in bulk like Nintendo does. Years ago when i turned in my aluminum cans I used to get a couple of dollars, and now i get significantly less.
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