Author Topic: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?  (Read 133680 times)

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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #525 on: December 08, 2010, 06:59:24 PM »
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The problem is that Nintendo tried the core gamer approach for years, and it worked until the 64. Then the GC came out, and was everything a developer should have wanted; 7 buttons, lots of power, internet capable, and the best copyright protection available to the disc format. And how were they were rewarded for that? Being called kiddy and pretty much abandoned by 3rd parties.

I personally consider the N64 and Gamecube to be weak, self-sabotaged efforts that deserved to fail.  The N64 was limited by the STUPID decision to use cartridges.  Aside from that it might have otherwise been a full effort.  At the time I figured Nintendo knew what they were doing but shot themselves in the foot with one really huge mistake.  The Gamecube felt very much like a half-assed effort.  Nintendo went in with a couple image problems going against it: they were kiddy, had **** third party support, made the same sequels over and over again, were behind the times with technlogy, and there was always long waits between games.  Nintendo then proceeded to just pump out the same "kiddy" franchises they always did (including turning Zelda into a cartoon).  They made no real effort to improve third party support.  At the Cube's first E3 press conference the only third party game they showed off was Rogue Leader.  One game?  Yeah, that's going to fix the image of poor third party support.  And that whole "waiting months between games" thing?  Nintendo made sure to reaffirm that stereotype by having a nice huge six month drought of games after launch.  The console itself looked like a toy, not helping at all with the kiddy image.  They responded to accusations of milking franchises by milking franchises and having a whole campaign called "who are you?" that emphized how they're all about milking franchises.  And Nintendo made sure to come across as backwards luddites by not going online when EVERYONE ELSE was doing it.  Oh, and they lied about vague online plans for the first few years as well before revealing they weren't doing it at all.  The Cube, for all intents and purposes, did not support online games.
 
At the very least the Cube was just there.  Nintendo needs to win everyone back after the N64 but they didn't do anything special to get the old audience back just offered tons of reasons and excuses to be ignored.  Aside from the cartridges thing none of the complaints about the N64 era were addressed.  It was very much a "we're Nintendo so they'll buy it anyway" attitude and it failed and it deserved to fail.
 
I can imagine Nintendo saying "screw you" to third parties and core gamers after the Cube but I see that like someone who never practices, trains or excerises who sucks at basketball, blames everyone but themselves, and decides to start their own sport where they'll be the best at everything.  Nintendo would have to admit mistakes, improve and work hard to get the videogame audience back but if they targetted a new audience that would cut them way more slack they wouldn't have to do any of that improvement stuff!  Yeah!!
 
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Despite all of our complaining and doubt, the Wii still sells strongly, so what reason does Nintendo have to change strategy?

That's my concern.  They probably don't have to change strategy to make a profit.  But since I'm not a Nintendo stockholder I don't give a ****.  I want them to make a console that suits me and they probably won't.  I guess it has been getting to the point where I don't care that much anymore, but they were for a very long time my favourite developer.
 
Though I think catering to casuals to the point of becoming irrelevant to core gamers is a foolish longterm strategy.  The mainstream is fickle and changes tastes easily.  If the casual market loses interest in games, Nintendo will need the support of core gamers as they are the only market one can count on to have a continued interest in videogames.  Strictly targetting casuals would be putting all their eggs in one basket.
 
And ultimately Nintendo's problem is that they're just not very user-friendly.  They're not friendly to third parties, they're not friendly to the videogame media, and they always enforce all sorts of restrictions on their customers and are notorious for telling their customers what they want.  How can a company expect to succeed in the longterm with that kind of attitude?

Offline Stogi

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #526 on: December 08, 2010, 07:12:12 PM »
Being family friendly isn't the same as catering to casuals, but it is roughly equivalent to making core gamers irrelevant. Any new IP's that Nintendo makes will almost always be family friendly and thus be simple enough to turn off some core gamers. But it isn't like they will drop core gamers altogether or even on purpose. They are expanding out of their niche as any smart company would once competition for that niche becomes to hard fought.

That is why you hate the Wii so much even though you own it, Ian.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #527 on: December 08, 2010, 07:14:46 PM »
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For consoles, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "Make the game simple and accessible. I want everyone in the house to be able to play it! So even if grandma would like to play, she can. "

For handhelds, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "We need a game for women over 30. We need a game for people who love RPG's. We need a game for etc. etc. etc."

This is so dead on that I am amazed that no one suggested it before.  It makes perfect sense!  It also explains why Nintendo has always been so strong with handhelds and so out-of-touch with consoles.  The console methodology is flawed.  People want variety.  With the exception of the Wii, the top selling console or handheld of each gen has always been the one that has the best third party support, ie: largest variety of games.  Nintendo needs to realize that to truly make an "everyone" console they need that true variety.  Games that everyone can enjoy are really just games that appeal to the lowest common denominator.  Making a game that grandma can also enjoy means the game is for grandma.  The 17 year old grandson will find it boring.  Sony always had the variety and that's what made the Playstation big.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #528 on: December 08, 2010, 07:57:45 PM »
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For consoles, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "Make the game simple and accessible. I want everyone in the house to be able to play it! So even if grandma would like to play, she can. "

For handhelds, I imagine Iwata barking out orders "We need a game for women over 30. We need a game for people who love RPG's. We need a game for etc. etc. etc."

This is so dead on that I am amazed that no one suggested it before.  It makes perfect sense!  It also explains why Nintendo has always been so strong with handhelds and so out-of-touch with consoles.  The console methodology is flawed.  People want variety.  With the exception of the Wii, the top selling console or handheld of each gen has always been the one that has the best third party support, ie: largest variety of games.  Nintendo needs to realize that to truly make an "everyone" console they need that true variety.  Games that everyone can enjoy are really just games that appeal to the lowest common denominator.  Making a game that grandma can also enjoy means the game is for grandma.  The 17 year old grandson will find it boring.  Sony always had the variety and that's what made the Playstation big.

"How can a company expect to succeed in the longterm with that kind of attitude?"
 
The answer to this is that they wont succeeed in the long term with the kind of business attitude they currently have. I mentioned before that if Nintendo does not get with the times they suffer the same fate as SEGA and I stand by that notion. They HAVE to get with the times! There is no getting around this any longer.
 
Ian, I agree with that Nintendo needs to take what has been working for the DS and apply it to their home consoles. Variety is the spice of life and in the gaming industry this is very much the case. Look at all the good third party games for the DS and then compare it to the Wii. Pretty abysmal, right?
 
One thing that is having a profiund influence on Nintendo's home conolses since the N64 is pirates. They are very paranoid that some one is going to copy their stuff. They have a right to this sentiment, but they have no right to stifen their loyal fans in the process.
 
The Gamecube was in a technical sense powerful enough for third parties to develope adequatly for, so if the machine had a differant appearance (no handle ::) ) then would it have gotten better support? I mean I am a graphics gamer, so if certan PS2 games had been on the GC with supperior graphics then I would have bought them right away.
 
I have to wonder if Nintendo's kid image is not manifested so much by Nintendo themselves but by their fanbase? I mean do all the soccer moms who see Nintendo as the only tried and true family console on the market helping to keep it casual? I have read that Reggie practically begged Take Two to put GTA on the Wii. Look at all of the uproar that came about Madworld being on the Wii from some mothers association. Nintendo does not want to deal with mature content, but if third parties were successful with their own mature titles, Nintendo would not mind getting a cut of their money. This would put them at odds with soccers moms and this is why they have been dabbling with casualization for so long.
 
Does any one remember the part in Twilight Princess when Link meets the great fairy and she is topless with her hair cover her-um-assets? This is the closest to mature content they have come to that I have ever seen from them.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #529 on: December 08, 2010, 08:04:43 PM »
LOL Those great fairy's are some freaks aren't they? Was it OOT where she was basically in doggystyle position? Funny ****.

I love how you guys are so certain that Nintendo will fail if they don't cater to third parties even though they've made by far the most money with no help from them at all.

I will concede this though. Nintendo better not get cocky. Keep innovating. That is the true spice of life.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #530 on: December 08, 2010, 08:12:29 PM »
@ Unagi
 
"I love how you guys are so certain that Nintendo will fail if they don't cater to third parties even though they've made by far the most money with no help from them at all."
 
Yes, Nintendo has made **** tons of money with out the help of third party developers. What I am certain of is that if Nintendo does not modernize itself with their next console then they run the risk of failing. They can not afford another generation of pain in the ass friend codes, online structure/ communication, peripherals, down load speeds, etc, because the market is making people accustom to efficiency and their patcience is wearing thin with Nintendo's habits. I know my patcience is wearing thin as Wii speak.
 
On a side note, I wonder what kind of sugestive posture the great fairy will have in Skyward Sword? Only a filthy mind could tell that one.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #531 on: December 08, 2010, 08:15:38 PM »
The Gamecube was in a technical sense powerful enough for third parties to develope adequatly for, so if the machine had a differant appearance (no handle ::) ) then would it have gotten better support? I mean I am a graphics gamer, so if certan PS2 games had been on the GC with supperior graphics then I would have bought them right away.

Unfortunately, as much as I loved my GameCube the console had some major problems with 3rd parties:
 
1.  Ever since the N64 era, Nintendo has been pitiful at attracting 3rd parties to their consoles.  I really don't think Nintendo corporate cares about 3rd party support as long as they keep making money off their own hardware and software.  They aren't willing to incentivize companies for exclusives like the other two platform holders are willing to do, and they haven't been all that fond of attracting their own fanbase to 3rd party titles.  Nintendo very much has an attitude that they deserve strong 3rd party support simply because of who they are, something I don't think this generation with the success of the Wii has helped much.
 
2.  Nintendo doesn't really make games for audiences beyond their usual "one size fits all" or "kids" demographics and they don't encourage 3rd parties to fill in the gap, so the GameCube got a rather unfortunate reptutation for not being a profitable home for such games.
 
3.  The GameCube's mini-DVD format really cut down on the file size that companies had to work with on Wii games.  Some of the better/bigger 2nd/3rd party games had to be done on multiple discs, including Skies of Arcadia, Baten Kaitos, and I believe RE4.  Nintendo's proprietary formats are expensive to use, and even moreso when you have to use several of them.  That's still a problem on Wii, too (something I didn't know until today).
 
4.  Nintendo did not support online (and spent a considerable amount of time making people think they would), something that really hasn't changed much.
 
5.  The GameCube controller, as much as I liked it, was not ideal for many games outside of Nintendo's own, which it was designed for.  The button were oddly-shaped and positioned for 3rd party titles, making direct porting somewhat more difficult than it really should have been.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #532 on: December 08, 2010, 08:17:05 PM »
Kytim: Modernize is one thing. Completely changing your strategy is another.

You really think that if Nintendo could repeat the last five years, they wouldn't?

As for the fairy ahaha how ironic is it that link is holding a skyward sword?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 08:19:28 PM by The Unagi »
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #533 on: December 08, 2010, 08:36:52 PM »
The Gamecube was in a technical sense powerful enough for third parties to develope adequatly for, so if the machine had a differant appearance (no handle ::) ) then would it have gotten better support? I mean I am a graphics gamer, so if certan PS2 games had been on the GC with supperior graphics then I would have bought them right away.

Unfortunately, as much as I loved my GameCube the console had some major problems with 3rd parties:
 
1.  Ever since the N64 era, Nintendo has been pitiful at attracting 3rd parties to their consoles.  I really don't think Nintendo corporate cares about 3rd party support as long as they keep making money off their own hardware and software.  They aren't willing to incentivize companies for exclusives like the other two platform holders are willing to do, and they haven't been all that fond of attracting their own fanbase to 3rd party titles.  Nintendo very much has an attitude that they deserve strong 3rd party support simply because of who they are, something I don't think this generation with the success of the Wii has helped much.
 
2.  Nintendo doesn't really make games for audiences beyond their usual "one size fits all" or "kids" demographics and they don't encourage 3rd parties to fill in the gap, so the GameCube got a rather unfortunate reptutation for not being a profitable home for such games.
 
3.  The GameCube's mini-DVD format really cut down on the file size that companies had to work with on Wii games.  Some of the better/bigger 2nd/3rd party games had to be done on multiple discs, including Skies of Arcadia, Baten Kaitos, and I believe RE4.  Nintendo's proprietary formats are expensive to use, and even moreso when you have to use several of them.  That's still a problem on Wii, too (something I didn't know until today).
 
4.  Nintendo did not support online (and spent a considerable amount of time making people think they would), something that really hasn't changed much.
 
5.  The GameCube controller, as much as I liked it, was not ideal for many games outside of Nintendo's own, which it was designed for.  The button were oddly-shaped and positioned for 3rd party titles, making direct porting somewhat more difficult than it really should have been.

From my point of view Nintendo peaked with the SNES and it has been a steady decline in their reputation since that time (depending on your definition). The Wii turned this around to some extent, but the reason why I am looking forward to the Wii 2 because I want it to be the second coming of the SNES. I mean one genre that defined the SNES was RPGs, which is something that the Wii has been lacking. So, flood the Wii 2 with good RPGs and see what happens.
 
@ Unagi
 
"You really think that if Nintendo could repeat the last five years, they wouldn't?"
 
Can they really keep repeating the last five years? I remember Ian sating in another thread that the reason why Nintendo got away with the transition from Gamecube to the Wii was motion controls. If this is the case, then Nintendo will have to constantly churn out innovations to keep this cycle going on. Right now I can not think of any thing that Nintendo could bring to the industry that is fresh due to technical limitations and cost prohibition. I mean 3D TVs are too expensive. Holograms are far into the future and what else do they have? This is why the Wii 2 is going to consist of Nintendo modernizing their consoles.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #534 on: December 08, 2010, 08:42:00 PM »
I think Nintendo is changing...but they have to be careful too.  I don't think Nintendo will skip out on the 720 and 1080 thing, because this next generation there is NO need to.  The technology is already there to make cheap 1080 hardware a reality.  Nintendo doesn't have to worry about not breaking peoples budgets to get the hardware required. 

Now Nintendo might make 720 the LIMIT that every game must meet to be on the system, and 1080 is not the standard.  However, I think this would be a good move for smaller developers. 


About Wii Sports 2.  I don't think that game really needs to exist.  Wii Sports is a game designed to get people wanting to play a new game experience.  It should not be a full fledged game, because that isn't the point.  The game is more like the iphone Apps than Mario or Zelda.  They are amazing fun games to play in short doses that you always want to go back too...just maybe not spend 3 hours playing.  This is how they should stay. 

Instead, I think Nintendo needs to take the BEST games from Wiiplay, Wii Sports, and Wii Sports Resort, and update them with the latest controls for Wii 2.0 and the newest renditions of Miis.  Hopefully with more options to make crazy awesome faces, but without losing the charm.  Then to help push the game as must have include 3 new games for everyone to experience...and online play.  I know I had mentioned this plan once before but it is such a good idea.  If they could include 10 games for the pack in that had a very small development cost but provides immediate value to purchase the new system it would be win/win.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #535 on: December 08, 2010, 08:55:03 PM »
I think Nintendo is changing...but they have to be careful too.  I don't think Nintendo will skip out on the 720 and 1080 thing, because this next generation there is NO need to.  The technology is already there to make cheap 1080 hardware a reality.  Nintendo doesn't have to worry about not breaking peoples budgets to get the hardware required. 

Now Nintendo might make 720 the LIMIT that every game must meet to be on the system, and 1080 is not the standard.  However, I think this would be a good move for smaller developers. 


About Wii Sports 2.  I don't think that game really needs to exist.  Wii Sports is a game designed to get people wanting to play a new game experience.  It should not be a full fledged game, because that isn't the point.  The game is more like the iphone Apps than Mario or Zelda.  They are amazing fun games to play in short doses that you always want to go back too...just maybe not spend 3 hours playing.  This is how they should stay. 

Instead, I think Nintendo needs to take the BEST games from Wiiplay, Wii Sports, and Wii Sports Resort, and update them with the latest controls for Wii 2.0 and the newest renditions of Miis.  Hopefully with more options to make crazy awesome faces, but without losing the charm.  Then to help push the game as must have include 3 new games for everyone to experience...and online play.  I know I had mentioned this plan once before but it is such a good idea.  If they could include 10 games for the pack in that had a very small development cost but provides immediate value to purchase the new system it would be win/win.

Nintendo may not allow any HD limitations for their new console simply to accomodate all developers. This way they feel more accustom and comfortable developing on a Nintendo system.
 
As for the sports titles, Nintendo would be smart to develop their version of Madden, NBA and all the other sports titles with enhanced motion controls. I could see them having two options for the Miis: classic and modern. The classic is the current model and the modern is a more life like version of the player's Miis. 
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #536 on: December 09, 2010, 01:46:39 AM »
Nintendo probably (and I think correctly) assumes that things that appeal to the casuals won't appeal to the cores. I sure as hell didn't buy any extra WiiWheels, and have only once used it.
I'm just curious, but why is this, exactly? Is it simply because it's a shell for the Wii Remote that adds no functionality, or is it because you don't like motion control in games?

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #537 on: December 09, 2010, 05:14:09 AM »
"As for the sports titles, Nintendo would be smart to develop their version of Madden, NBA and all the other sports titles with enhanced motion controls. I could see them having two options for the Miis: classic and modern. The classic is the current model and the modern is a more life like version of the player's Miis."

This is exactly what Nintendo SHOULD NOT do.  Nintendo has tried to have their own version of Sports games and it didn't work.  Sega also tried this approach and failed.  The simple fact is, people only buy the BEST of the sports genre and competing for licenses is such is a big deal and difficult.  Let EA Sports who has a track record for making good sports games handle the sports games.  Then let Nintendo make what they make best Nintendo games.  When they cross, then they better lean closer towards Nintendo titles than Sports themes, like Wii Sports, Mario Sports and such.  However, I do think Nintendo SHOULD work closer with 3rd parties to get exclusive features and designs in their games, and even push to have a hand in developing some games to be more Nintendo.  That would be a great partnership.  I want more Nintendo partnerships, coming along side 3rd parties and creating new Nintendo experiences than Nintendo wasting complete development teams creating games that can't possibly complete with EA

Offline MaryJane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #538 on: December 09, 2010, 10:52:26 AM »
@Mop
Because it was a shell that added no functionality. Also, I have big hands and I didn't find the wheel comfortable or useful.


There are smartphones coming out that can output 1080p content to HDTVs, so as someone else mentioned, the tech is cheap and Nintendo would be remiss to include it. Also, the Nintendo strategy is working for Nintendo. Make casual games, have everyone able to play, be family oriented and make tons of money.
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #539 on: December 09, 2010, 12:08:17 PM »
This is exactly what Nintendo SHOULD NOT do.  Nintendo has tried to have their own version of Sports games and it didn't work.  Sega also tried this approach and failed.

When did Nintendo's sports games ever fail? Their NES ones almost all sold very well (for example, Golf sold over 2.4 million copies just in Japan), and the Mario sports games all did well. However, add Microsoft and their failed XSN Sports line to your list.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #540 on: December 09, 2010, 01:21:47 PM »
Nintendo having their own sports games is fine, provided they also have EA's sports games.  Sega ran into a problem where on the Dreamcast the 2K games were it.  There was no Madden.  Mario sports games can comfortably co-exist with the sports games based on a real leagues.

I look at Nintendo like a sports team that is winning right now but has drafted poorly and has no prospects.  As is, everything is cool right now and may be great for years but when the bottom falls out they're going to fall hard.  They don't learn from their mistakes and they have tons of fundamental problems and if they don't address that it will bite them in the ass someday.  They're not doomed but they're vulnerable.  They screw too many routine things up to be consistently successful.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #541 on: December 09, 2010, 01:49:06 PM »
@ Ian Sane
 
"I look at Nintendo like a sports team that is winning right now but has drafted poorly and has no prospects.  As is, everything is cool right now and may be great for years but when the bottom falls out they're going to fall hard.  They don't learn from their mistakes and they have tons of fundamental problems and if they don't address that it will bite them in the ass someday.  They're not doomed but they're vulnerable.  They screw too many routine things up to be consistently successful."
 
I totally agree with this statement, Ian. I said it before that what worked for the Wii may not work a second time for Nintendo. They have to adopt industry standards at thi point.
 
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system and then an epiphany happened when I was brain storming ideas for Super Mario Universe. Basically take the concept of Galaxy and add an online level creator that is accessible enough for a simple player to develop their own Galaxies and then post them online for others to play through. Of course the internet is in some sense a mini-universe in itself, so filling it up with Galaxies would create an exspanisive game play experience. Also, Nintendo could make tons of money by selling us DLC kits to build Galaxies and spotpass could be used in some way. This would be the first platforming MMO.
 
Imagine an Ian Sane Galaxy, or a Broodwars or Mop It Up Galaxy that is made by them and everyone else can play.
 
As for Nintendo sports titles, Nintendo would be smart to beat Sony to a  motion based professional sports games. I figure that Sony will try and do this with Move.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #542 on: December 09, 2010, 01:59:20 PM »
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system and then an epiphany happened when I was brain storming ideas for Super Mario Universe. Basically take the concept of Galaxy and add an online level creator that is accessible enough for a simple player to develop their own Galaxies and then post them online for others to play through. Of course the internet is in some sense a mini-universe in itself, so filling it up with Galaxies would create an exspanisive game play experience. Also, Nintendo could make tons of money by selling us DLC kits to build Galaxies and spotpass could be used in some way. This would be the first platforming MMO.

I have a feeling someone else may have had a similar idea, Kytim.  And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may have had a simliar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #543 on: December 09, 2010, 02:07:14 PM »
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system and then an epiphany happened when I was brain storming ideas for Super Mario Universe. Basically take the concept of Galaxy and add an online level creator that is accessible enough for a simple player to develop their own Galaxies and then post them online for others to play through. Of course the internet is in some sense a mini-universe in itself, so filling it up with Galaxies would create an exspanisive game play experience. Also, Nintendo could make tons of money by selling us DLC kits to build Galaxies and spotpass could be used in some way. This would be the first platforming MMO.

I have a feeling someone else may have had a similar idea, Kytim.  And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may have had a simliar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.

I have actually never played LBP and I know very little about, but it would be a good concept for Nintendo to add their ideas to.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #544 on: December 09, 2010, 02:15:08 PM »
I have a feeling someone else may have had a similar idea, Kytim.  And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may have had a similar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.

I have actually never played LBP and I know very little about, but it would be a good concept for Nintendo to add their ideas to.

But that's the problem: not only did someone else came up with it first, but there's a heavy online component.  Because of that, the only way we'd see such a thing out of Nintendo is something insanely convoluted like having to create levels on the Wii 2, transfer them to the 3DS, exchange 3DS friend codes with the people you want do send the level to, exchange the level(s) via 3DSs, and then your friends transfer the levels to their Wii 2 after first exchanging Wii 2 system friends codes with you (for authentication purposes).  Oh, and you have to pay 300 Nintendo points for the privilege.  Nintendo is just that backwards in how they look at online and how they always feel they need to be "different" and "creative" instead of "practical".  Their foolish pride won't let them just iterate and evolve on something someone else created.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 02:21:09 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #545 on: December 09, 2010, 02:23:36 PM »
I have a feeling someone else may have had a similar idea, Kytim.  And because this is Nintendo, because someone else may have had a similar idea, Nintendo won't do it because they have to do everything their own way...even when someone else's idea works just fine.

I have actually never played LBP and I know very little about, but it would be a good concept for Nintendo to add their ideas to.

But that's the problem: not only did someone else came up with it first, but there's a heavy online component.  Because of that, the only way we'd see such a thing out of Nintendo is something insanely convoluted like having to create levels on the Wii 2, transfer them to the 3DS, exchange 3DS friend codes with the people you want do send the level to, and then your friends transfer the levels to their Wii 2 after first exchanging Wii 2 system friends codes with you.  Oh, and you have to pay 300 Nintendo points for the privilege.  Nintendo is just that backwards in how they look at online and how they always feel they need to be "different" and "creative" instead of "practical".  Their foolish pride won't let them just iterate and evolve on something someone else created.

I still stand by my belief that the prospect of Nintendo being able to make tons of money via DLC for galaxy creation kits is just seems too enticing for Nintendo to pass up. The only problem with this is that the level creators would have to very accessible for even casuals to use.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #546 on: December 09, 2010, 02:55:32 PM »
The only problem with this is that the level creators would have to very accessible for even casuals to use.

Why?  The people who care enough about games to make levels are not who we refer to as "casuals".  Sure, if Nintendo were to make such a game I would want the ability to acquire levels to be very accessible, but I don't want creativity and useability in the level creator engines hampered by Nintendo's insatiable desire to make every aspect of every game they make to be accessible to everyone, regardless of interest or talent.  Make the creation engines easy to understand and fill them with depth, but it takes talent and dedication to design a good level.  Not everyone has that, and Nintendo should respect the people that put in the time necessary to create good levels rather than dumb it down to something half-assed so that everyone can play with it.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 03:00:21 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #547 on: December 09, 2010, 03:00:22 PM »
The only problem with this is that the level creators would have to very accessible for even casuals to use.

Why?  The people who care enough about games to make levels are not who we refer to as "casuals".  Sure, if Nintendo were to make sure a game I would want the ability to acquire levels to be very accessible, but I don't want creativity and useability in the level creator engines hampered by Nintendo's insatiable desire to make every aspect of every game they make to be accessible to everyone, regardless of interest or talent.  Make the creation engines easy to understand and fill them with depth, but it takes talent and dedication to design a good level.  Not everyone has that, and Nintendo should respect the people that put in the time necessary to create good levels rather than dumb it down to something half-assed so that everyone can play with it.

Nintendo would develop the level creators with the notion that their Mario games thus far have been training their long time fans to develop levels of their own based on how they feel the platforming gnere should be.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #548 on: December 09, 2010, 03:03:01 PM »
Nintendo would develop the level creators with the notion that their Mario games thus far have been training their long time fans to develop levels of their own based on how they feel the platforming gnere should be.

If that were the case, why would anyone ever purchase another Mario game when you can just go online in Mario Universe and whatnot and download 5 million player-created Mario levels "based on how they feel the platforming genre (spelling corrected) should be?"  Nintendo would be killing its own core franchise.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Wii Successor and Glassess Free 3D: How Will It Work?
« Reply #549 on: December 09, 2010, 05:04:29 PM »
Quote
On a side, I was thinking about a reason for why Nintendo should include a better online system

There already is a reason: their current model sucks.  It isn't easy-to-use, convenient, flexible or intuitive.  I'd say the only things it has going for it is that it is free and it actually exists this time.  Nintendo themselves are probably the only people in the entire world that like the way it is set up (almost as if they designed it to benefit themselves instead of their customers).
 
I think this just shows the problem.  Here we are thinking of some other reason for Nintendo to improve their online system like we have to trick them into doing it.  It is unacceptably poor, it should be fixed.  That's it!  That's the entire justification!  As Nintendo fans I feel like we get too used to their weird way of thinking and start coming up with complicated outside-the-box solutions to simple problems.  This isn't complicated at all.  They do it way worse than everyone else and should improve it.
 
Hell, that's the justification for their third party support.  It sucks and as a customer I want it fixed.  Give me more storage because the current setup sucks.  Give me more demos because the current setup sucks.  This sucks on Nintendo's console and doesn't on the other consoles.  We're paying customers, we're unsatisfied, so fix it.