Topic: The More Things Change... (Japanese vs. American Games)

[Pale]

I warn you, this is a thread in which we discuss a thread.  Anyway, go read this NeoGAF post and then come back here and discuss!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400709


I find the article extremely eye opening and entertaining.  Having been born in 81, I was right in the sweet spot for getting hooked on games via the NES, but totally missed the arcade revolution that was going on just prior to that.
It kind of makes the fact that we all argue about the same thing to this day seem juvenile and pointless.  I guess maybe I knew that already.


Newsflash.  People like different things!

[Pale]

Also, seriously, what the piss is wrong with the forums?

[Ian Sane]

The NES is infamous for it's many hard as piss games.  I actually can't think of a videogame system with so many games that more or less jerked you around.  During the NES days it was like good game design meant making sure the player didn't defeat your game.  The player was the opponent.  And the NES is full of Japanese games.

Pac-Man is not an easy game.  Neither is Donkey Kong.  And no one would consider something like Contra easy.  Japan is famous of its shmups.  The NES also had more complicated games like Zelda and Metroid which due to their sheer scope are not very accessible.  Metroid is probably one of the most unfair hardcore games ever.  No map, you can't shoot diagonal or duck and tons of enemies move in patterns that take advantage of that, you start with a weapon that only shoots a foot in front of you, and when you die you start with so little life that you have to spend time killing weak enemies for power-ups.  That's hardcore.  In comparison something like Robotron makes you look like a damn pussy because it's always obvious what to do and is thus more inviting.

Eugene Jarvis comes across more as the "Nintendo is kiddy" type of guy.  He craps on Pac-Man because it's about eating dots instead of shooting the **** out of stuff.  That's like saying baseball isn't a sport because it lacks the violence of hockey.  If I think of something that isn't a sport I think of a little kids sports day where everyone just goofs around and gets a ribbon for it and everyone is considered a winner.  So I understand crapping on a game where there is no winning or losing, or games that tell you exactly what to do, or games that offer no challenge or threat of failure.  But if it's just a different type of game and thus a different type of challenge, it's still a games.  It's still the same idea.

I agree that there is an instinctive feeling that when your parents like something that you like, it hurts it.  I don't think it's specifically a kid-parent thing.  What it is is when you've found a subculture, usually to rebel against a different group or as a result of rejection by a different group, and then that subculture is "invaded" by the very group you didn't want to be associated with.  Gaming is a subculture so I see an instinctive reaction to including those from outside the subculture in because it kills the subculture.  If the mainstream loves games, gamers can no longer use videogames to be outside the mainstream.  Or if a gamer is rejected by the mainstream then he isn't going to fit with the new "mainstream-inclusive" subculture and he'll be more or less kicked out.  I didn't mind my parents liking "my" music because I liked my parents.  I didn't like it when the biggest assholes in school did because I didn't like them.

I prefer the Japanese style of game design and I think part of it might be that Japan is foreign and strange to me so the unique style of Japanese games is a novelty to me.  It's different than real life so it provides a better fantasy.  I deal with Western culture every day so it's less interesting.  It's no different then when Asian people want to dress like cowboys because that's American and is weird and different to them.

[TJ Spyke]

Donkey Kong, hard? Maybe after 15 stages and it speeds up.

[ThePerm]

hahah, iv had this recently happen to me with facebook. My mom and aunts and uncles got facebook, and now i must be careful what I say. I'm thinking about creating an alternate me just for friends.

also, Naruto. Nothingi s going to stop me from liking Naruto, but when I started to watch it. It was a obscure import that nobody knew about, now its mainstream, well known, and popular. It seems weird there are toys in every store.

its like you found a gold mine which only you knew about, but because everyone else found about it the value of gold has devalued because everyone is getting gold.


and yes Tj Spike Donkey Kong is hard. You may not think so, but it is daunting for the average person. Compare Donkey Kong to New Super Mario Bros. I had never played NSMB till the other day, and i picked it up and i was already an ace(they really got the feel of an old smb game just right), Donkey Kong it is so easy to **** up and die.

[TJ Spyke]

I am not sure I would call Naruto mainstream, at least anymore. It's become niche again now that it airs only on Disney XD (which most basic cable and satellite packages don't get, it's usually on one of those higher priced tiers).

I guess a non-gamer might consider Donkey Kong hard, I just have never considered it difficult until the speed increases.

[that Baby guy]

It's funny that a good portion of the people on NeoGAF find that Eugene Jarvis is such an awesome fellow when it seems his games are less universally popular and timeless than the games he mocks.

I warn you, this is a thread in which we discuss a thread.  Anyway, go read this NeoGAF post and then come back here and discuss!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=400709


I find the article extremely eye opening and entertaining.  Having been born in 81, I was right in the sweet spot for getting hooked on games via the NES, but totally missed the arcade revolution that was going on just prior to that.
It kind of makes the fact that we all argue about the same thing to this day seem juvenile and pointless.  I guess maybe I knew that already.


Newsflash.  People like different things!

Really, though, I remember reading these arguments and ideas in magazines and in video games growing up.  To me, they're tired, old, and show how foolish and immature a lot of the people driving the industry, both then and now, can be.

[ThePerm]

woah pales thread majorly malfunctioned

[Caterkiller]

What a nice read. I want to beat up the pac man hatin guy.

[KDR_11k]

when you die you start with so little life that you have to spend time killing weak enemies for power-ups.  That's hardcore.

No, that's fucking tedious. Working for your fun may be hardcore to MMO players but the rest of us already worked for the fun when we got the money together to buy the game.

[Spak-Spang]

Which is why Metroid is one of the worst games I have ever played.  Luckily Super Metroid redeemed it.