Topic: Sony Says: Apple is the Arrogant one.... Not Us (anymore)!!

[BlackNMild2k1]

Apple more arrogant, says Sony

Mr Ephraim says "I don't think we (Sony) are arrogant anymore", but  couldn't resist taking a bite at Apple, which is becoming a major player  in the gaming business thanks to the App Store.
 
"I think we can name a company that is a fruit that is in the  news a lot about their arrogance," Mr Ephraim says. "I think they have  taken the mantle from us, if we were ever arrogant!"

How much of a challenge do you think it will be to sell the   Move? It seems that the casual audience all have a Wii already, and the   hardcore are not interested in motion-based gaming.

That's where I think Move is very different. Nintendo did a great job   with a motion control experience, but that's all they did. With Move,   it's another functionality for PS3. PS3 is already becoming the machine   of choice for families because of all the other applications, and we've   talked a lot in the past about the fact that Wii didn't suit core games,   like Zelda, and so on. But Move really enhances the core gaming   experience as well as opening it up to more social experiences.

Also, Bond University's study by Jeff Brand shows that something like   40 per cent of homes have dual console ownership. So we think all the   foundation that Wii has built out there is great for us because people   can now step up to PS3 and PlayTV and movie downloads, all this stuff,   and they can also get a social gaming experience with PlayStation Move.

You mentioned sales in your presentation earlier, were you   comparing PS3 sales to 360, or also Wii?

In the first three or four months of 2010, we were definitely   outselling Xbox, and by margins of one-and-a-half or two-to-one. And we   definitely closed the gap, exceeding sales of Wii. So we've seen a major   change.Wii has done very well, being in over 20 million homes   (worldwide) but after you reach a certain number you're going to slow   down. PlayStation 3 had a late start but with slim and the new price   point we really have the momentum now with PS3. And with all this   innovation and the user experiences that we are delivering, we're very   confident that in 2010 we will start exceeding our competitors.

[Morari]

Both companies are senselessly arrogant. Apple cultists simply drink more of their brand's Kool-Aid.

[TJ Spyke]

Sony doesn't have anything to be arrogant about. The company has been loosing tons of money, their most recent system (PSP Go) has bombed, their main console is in last place and at BEST could finish a distant second (and just barely ahead of Xbox 360).

70 million Wiis / 20 million homes, is he saying the average home owns over 3 Wii systems each?

It's funny how arrogant he is by claiming not to be arrogant. It's like someone bragging that they are modest.

[Adrock]

Both companies are senselessly arrogant. Apple cultists simply drink more of their brand's Kool-Aid.

I'm going to be honest with you, dude. Apple's profit margins are ridiculous, but this Macbook Pro (my first Apple product ever) is still the best computer I've ever owned. I don't regret the money I spent at all. OSX is the best operating system I've ever used and I'm bootcamping Windows 7 (also awesome, just not as awesome).

It's funny how arrogant he is by claiming not to be arrogant. It's like someone bragging that they are modest.

Yeah... that's about right. Still, I'll give them this: Sony managed to hold their own despite f*cking up worse than Nintendo ever did. I don't even know how they managed that.

[Ian Sane]

To quote Weird Al's Amish Paradise "I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art."

"Arrogance" seems to be the term used for bragging when you can't back it up.  Apple can brag and boast without sounding like tools.  I've often accused Nintendo of being arrogant and they sure as hell were when they were in last place and still acting like King ****.  But when they say "we sold this many millions of games" it doesn't come across as arrogant because they're just stating the facts.  They ARE that successful.

Though using that definition Sony didn't used to be arrogant either since they used to be on top.  They became arrogant this gen.

[NWR_insanolord]

Apple's not arrogant; it's not arrogant to act like you're better than everyone else when you actually are.

[Mop it up]

Sony was arrogant before the PS3 launched, by pricing it at $600, saying people would get a second job to afford one, and assuming it would be the market leader without any effort (something about how it would sell a million even if it were just an empty box).

I know Nintendo has has made some questionable statements before, but have they said anything which compares to that?

[Guitar Smasher]

Apple's not arrogant; it's not arrogant to act like you're better than everyone else when you actually are.

There's a spectrum of arrogance, and although both are highly successful, Apple and Nintendo contrast each other considerably.  For example, Apple talks about iPad before it's released as a culture-changing piece of technology.  It may very well be, but it's arrogant to make unprovable claims.  Nintendo, alternatively, is always talking about how consumers are always expecting more, and that Nintendo must strive to meet this.  There's no presumption that because it's got "Nintendo" on the box that it's going to destroy the market.  Consider Iwata, can you imagine a more humble head honcho?  Even Reggie attempts to mimic Iwata's messages.

Of course these perceptions aren't helped by the media, where Apple=God and Nintendo=doomed...

[TJ Spyke]

something about how it would sell a million even if it were just an empty box).

This is the quote that made people especially annoying. Kutaragi (or was it Hirai?) said that the PlayStation 3 could sell 5 million copies before they even released a game.

[Peachylala]

Sony managed to hold their own despite f*cking up worse than Nintendo ever did. I don't even know how they managed that.

The N64 and GCN weren't massive ****-ups... they were mostly a black-eye on Nintendo's history that came from an abusive relationship.

[nickmitch]

For example, Apple talks about iPad before it's released as a culture-changing piece of technology.  It may very well be, but it's arrogant to make unprovable claims.

Apple calling the device "revolutionary" and "magical" wasn't arrogance. They were just hyping up their latest gizmo. Sony saying they could make you get a 2nd job to buy an empty box was arrogant.

But it's nice to hear that after years of being served humble pie, Sony finally took a bite.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I've often accused Nintendo of being arrogant and they sure as hell were   when they were in last place and still acting like King ****.

They were still being more consistently profitable then Sony and MS.

[Chozo Ghost]

Sony did see some setbacks and reverses coming into this generation, but I'm very sorry to see that those reverses weren't enough to put them in their place and make them more humble. Oh well. I guess those who are too arrogant to admit their mistakes are doomed to repeat them again and again. In just about any war in history it always seemed like the ones who were most arrogant were the ones who ended up losing. That's because they feel so sure of themselves and think they're invincible, and then the "little" guy comes and kicks their ass.

[Chozo Ghost]

To quote Weird Al's Amish Paradise "I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art."

"Arrogance" seems to be the term used for bragging when you can't back it up.  Apple can brag and boast without sounding like tools.  I've often accused Nintendo of being arrogant and they sure as hell were when they were in last place and still acting like King ****.  But when they say "we sold this many millions of games" it doesn't come across as arrogant because they're just stating the facts.  They ARE that successful.

Though using that definition Sony didn't used to be arrogant either since they used to be on top.  They became arrogant this gen.

Nintendo under Yamauchi was pretty arrogant, and that's what pissed off a lot of 3rd parties and so forth. I'm not seeing that from Nintendo's new generation of leadership. Iwata seems like a very sensible and humble CEO, and he never claims Nintendo is invincible or that the competition is going to fail. Instead he acknowledges current trends and future threats Nintendo will face. That's why he's looking at Apple and seriously taking into account what they will offer and how best Nintendo can defend its market share from their encroachment.

So Iwata is wise and humble the way a good leader would be. Yamauchi would be doing things pretty much the opposite. This was the guy who said he didn't care if no one supported the N64 because it would mean more money for Nintendo. If Yamauchi were running Nintendo right now there would be a very real danger Nintendo would lose its domination of the handheld market to Apple and/or Sony. But fortunately that's not the case. I really think the company is in good hands with Iwata.

Of course, Nintendo can still be a little arrogant at times even now, but it is no where near like it used to be, and is much more under control than in other companies.

[Peachylala]

Nintendo under Yamauchi was pretty arrogant, and that's what pissed off a lot of 3rd parties and so forth.

To give Yamauchi credit where due (shockingly), his controlling ways kept them from being like Sega during that era. On the minus side, wasn't he one of the people that tried to force Miyamoto to make Yoshi's Island look like Donkey Kong Country?

[broodwars]

Nintendo under Yamauchi was pretty arrogant, and that's what pissed off a lot of 3rd parties and so forth.

To give Yamauchi credit where due (shockingly), his controlling ways kept them from being like Sega during that era. On the minus side, wasn't he one of the people that tried to force Miyamoto to make Yoshi's Island look like Donkey Kong Country?

I believe so, and (more egregiously to me as an RPG fan) he was also probably personally responsible for chasing off RPGs from Nintendo systems for 2 (now going on 3) generations, particularly from Square (paraphrased: "RPGs are for losers who live in their parents' basement").
 
As for the topic itself, "whatever."  Apple annoys me more than Sony, though.  At least lately Sony seems to have developed the ability to laugh at itself and its mistakes, between its last E3 press conference and some of those Kevin Butler commercials.  To be fair, probably most of my dislike for Apple comes from irritation with their extremely vocal die-hard supporters.

[TJ Spyke]

On the minus side, wasn't he one of the people that tried to force Miyamoto to make Yoshi's Island look like Donkey Kong Country?

Nope, that was Nintendo's marketing department. Donkey Kong Country had come out and was a huge record-breaking success (selling 6.1 million copies in its first 45 days), so the marketing department wanted the game to have that CG generated look. Miyamoto was proud of his work and ended up making Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island look even more cartoony than before.

[Ian Sane]

Nope, that was Nintendo's marketing department. Donkey Kong Country had come out and was a huge record-breaking success (selling 6.1 million copies in its first 45 days), so the marketing department wanted the game to have that CG generated look. Miyamoto was proud of his work and ended up making Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island look even more cartoony than before.

As a kid I was irritated by Yoshi's Island's crayon look (which is funny since I now LOVE that game's look) so maybe the marketing department weren't so off the mark.  What made me interested in Yoshi's Island was that it was Super Mario World 2.  I believe that sub-title was not used in Japan so whoever the marketing guys were at NOA that came up with that one were geniuses.  At the time I was totally into the rendered graphics look.  I was hyped up for Super Mario RPG, after being utterly indifferent to Final Fantasy, entirely because it was Mario RENDERED!! YEAH!!  Realistically that was the trial run for Square tricking the Western gamer into trying RPGs with Final Fantasy VII's visual pizzazz.
 
I'm very conflicted about Yamauchi.  He scared off all the third parties and is the source of Nintendo's frustrating stubborness.  But I honestly thought Nintendo's best games came under Yamauchi.  Iwata has been very successful but I feel Nintendo's game quality has dropped significantly under his watch.  Nintendo makes conservative sequels under Iwata.  Under Yamauchi every game was this super ambitious GOTY contender.  May be a coincedence but Yamauchi era Nintendo seemed to want to make the greatest game of all time EVERY time.  And they pushed the **** out of the hardware of the day.  There weren't relesaed glorified last-gen hardware and then making games that don't even push THAT when Yamauchi was in charge.
 
And all the things I always hated about Nintendo have remained with Iwata.  He may come across as more humble but Nintendo still has **** third party support and they still do things a weird Nintendo way for no reason.  If anything Iwata just changed all the things I liked about Nintendo and kept the stuff I didn't.

[TJ Spyke]

"Yoshi's Island" is the subtitle, not "Super Mario World 2" (hence the name of the game being Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island). The Japanese title was similar, over there it was Super Mario: Yoshi Island.

[Luigi Dude]

I'm very conflicted about Yamauchi.  He scared off all the third parties and is the source of Nintendo's frustrating stubborness.  But I honestly thought Nintendo's best games came under Yamauchi.  Iwata has been very successful but I feel Nintendo's game quality has dropped significantly under his watch.  Nintendo makes conservative sequels under Iwata.  Under Yamauchi every game was this super ambitious GOTY contender.  May be a coincedence but Yamauchi era Nintendo seemed to want to make the greatest game of all time EVERY time.  And they pushed the **** out of the hardware of the day.  There weren't relesaed glorified last-gen hardware and then making games that don't even push THAT when Yamauchi was in charge.

I'm sorry but your really letting nostalgia blind you here.  Are you telling me that all games like Yoshi's Story and Hey You Pikachu! were GOTY contenders?  Really now, in terms of overall quality it's been about the same for both Yamauchi and Iwata.  The big Nintendo titles like Mario and Zelda still score in the 90's and the second tier series get averages in the 80's.  If you honestly believe everything Nintendo released under Yamauchi were the greatest games of all time, I recommend you spend a few hours on Gameranking and Metacritic and you'll see that this was not the case at all.

Not to mention it was under Yamauchi that Nintendo launched the Gameboy Advance with Mario Advance, and then green-light the production of the next three Mario Advance games as well, with the second being released while he was still president and the 3rd being released shortly after he left.  The Mario Advance series was one of the laziest things Nintendo had ever done and it was all given the go with Yamauchi still president.  Plus the decision to rush Mario Sunshine in order for it to make a summer release was one of the last things Yamauchi did as president of the company as well.

Really, I could go on all day with questionable things Yamauchi's Nintendo did quality wise.  So don't act like Yamauchi held the company to a higher standard when in reality his Nintendo was just as guilty of the same things Iwata's Nintendo is.

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo under Yamauchi was pretty arrogant, and that's what pissed off a lot of 3rd parties and so forth.

To give Yamauchi credit where due (shockingly), his controlling ways kept them from being like Sega during that era. On the minus side, wasn't he one of the people that tried to force Miyamoto to make Yoshi's Island look like Donkey Kong Country?

I know he is responsible for ruining Star Fox adventures (and the Star Fox franchise itself by extension). The game was supposed to have been a new franchise called Dinosaur Planet or something like that, but Yamauchi stepped in at the last minute and made it Star Fox instead. I'm sure he was responsible for other crap like that in other games and other decisions surrounding the GC in its first year or two, and even though he left before the end of the GC era was over I think the damage was pretty much done and his successors couldn't do much to salvage the system so all they could do is wait until the next gen and start fresh with the Wii.

But even so, Yamauchi is responsible for Nintendo's success in the first place. I just think that since he is in his 80s now he is probably suffering from senility which happens to a lot of elderly people and is nothing to be ashamed of.  In the NES era he was probably in his 50s or so, and back then he was probably fine, but as he aged the quality of his decision making began to deteriorate.

Again, its nothing to be ashamed of because that's what happens when you get into your 70s and 80s. That's why a lot of people were against McCain being president, actually...

[Luigi Dude]

I'm sure he was responsible for other crap like that in other games and other decisions surrounding the GC in its first year or two, and even though he left before the end of the GC era was over I think the damage was pretty much done and his successors couldn't do much to salvage the system so all they could do is wait until the next gen and start fresh with the Wii.

The Gamecube's lack of online and the reason Nintendo is still running behind in online was also Yamauchi's doing.  Even though the Gamecube had the ability to go online, Yamauchi didn't bother to create any type of infrastructure for it.  As a result, when Iwata took over in June 2002, it was already too late for him to do anything about the Gamecube's online problem since there was nothing to work with and it would have taken years to make some kind of workable model for the system.  This is why the DS and Wii have online though because Iwata created an actual infrastructure for both of them before their launch so they'd be able to have it.

Had Yamauchi not dropped the ball when it came to having online with the Gamecube, Nintendo might not be years behind on online support like they are now.  But instead he left this problem for Iwata to take care of and didn't leave him much to work with.

[Guitar Smasher]

Let's not overlook the fact that Yamauchi chose Iwata to be his successor!  We can argue how significant this decision was, but surely it's worth noting.

[Ian Sane]

Luigi Dude, I agree with everything you said about Yamauchi.  He is responsible for some of the most frustrating things Nintendo ever did.

But the best Nintendo games were made when he was calling the shots, hence I'm conflicted.  Yes, some outright junk was also made but some outright junk is made now.  Iwata took over in 2002 and I would say that there are only a handful of Nintendo games made since then that I would consider to be some of their best work.  Iwata's reign seems to correspond with an era of safe, conservative sequels and a general lack of new IP aside from the Wii series.  That may just be a law of diminishing returns though as almost all of Nintendo's franchises were started in the Yamauchi era.

I find the Wii disappointing and the last years of the Gamecube were like a cruel joke.  And which guy was in charge during that time?

[Chozo Ghost]

The last years of the GC's life were pretty pathetic, but it wasn't entirely Nintendo's fault. They did publish some top quality A+ titles during that time like Geist and so forth, which failed miserably but they did receive high critical acclaim. The problem was people weren't buying GC games, whether they were awesome or not. The system was pretty much in a no-win situation by that point. No matter who was in charge the system couldn't have been saved because the damage was already done.

I agree with Ian that we aren't seeing enough new franchises from Nintendo these days. Pikmin seems like the newest "traditional" franchise they've introduced, but that game is like 7 or 8 years old now. Since then we should have seen more franchises appear. I don't think Wii Sports or Wii Play or Wii Fit should count as new franchises because they aren't really games in the traditional sense.