Topic: Series Series - Wii in Third - Next Round finally up!

[broodwars]

As for the last poll - I'm surprised that Wind Waker beat Twilight Princess so badly.  They're both top-shelf games, but WW was very controversial.  While TP has its haters, it never had the bad press that WW had.  Just surprised.  I assume TP will probably take 6th, but, while I did enjoy the game, it just doesn't beat FSA for me.

My problem with Twilight Princess is that it's fractured development led to a very mismatched final product that, while still good, never really comes together.  You have a very definite first half and a very definite second half, and the two halves are radically different in storytelling and tone.  There's also the Twilight Dimension and Link's wolf form, which both come off as wasted and arbitrary since the game doesn't really do anything interesting with either one.  Toss in dungeons which emphasize the new Zelda law of "this item shall be used in this dungeon heavily, but will only be used in this dungeon"; an underwhelming selection of weapons; and kind of an underwhelming cast of characters (outside of Midna), and it's just an "ok" Zelda game.  Of all the Zelda games, it's the one that's hurt most by the stagnant Zelda formula.

Wind Waker has some severe problems, but it more or less tries to take its central conceit of the ocean world and just run with it.

As for this next round, I'm probably going to have to go with either the Oracle games or Four Swords Adventures.  Haven't made up my mind yet.

[Stratos]

I feel that Twilight had a lot of missed opportunities. All of those secondary characters who 'worked with you' to fight evil felt like they could have been much more but disappeared into irrelevancy until that one point in the final castle when you are briefly reminded of their existence.

I'm torn by what to do with Master Quest. I feel half of my enjoyment of it is based solely on how much it messes with my ingrained memories of how to beat the game. Much of it's difficulty came from the changes they made so I'm thinking I shouldn't make it a higher voted game.

[Luigi Dude]

It's no surprise that Wind Waker beat Twilight Princess by that margin because of the Zelda cycle.  It's still the newest home console Zelda which by default is the most hated.  Everyone time a new Zelda comes out on the home consoles the fans love to hate it and suddenly praise the previous one.  Majora's Mask was hated until Wind Waker came out, and then Wind Waker was hated until Twilight Princess came out.

I can guarentee once the upcoming Zelda Wii comes out, Twilight Princess will suddenly be praised while whatever the upcoming Zelda Wii will be ripped apart.  Until of course, several years from now it's sequel comes out and then it too will be loved.

[UncleBob]

That's an interesting observation.

[BeautifulShy]

It's no surprise that Wind Waker beat Twilight Princess by that margin because of the Zelda cycle.  It's still the newest home console Zelda which by default is the most hated.  Everyone time a new Zelda comes out on the home consoles the fans love to hate it and suddenly praise the previous one.  Majora's Mask was hated until Wind Waker came out, and then Wind Waker was hated until Twilight Princess came out.

I can guarentee once the upcoming Zelda Wii comes out, Twilight Princess will suddenly be praised while whatever the upcoming Zelda Wii will be ripped apart.  Until of course, several years from now it's sequel comes out and then it too will be loved.

How would you explain Link to the Past? It as far as I know was loved when it came out.

[UncleBob]

How would you explain Link to the Past? It as far as I know was loved when it came out.

Pre-internet era.

[Stratos]

How would you explain Link to the Past? It as far as I know was loved when it came out.

Pre-internet era.

The PIE effect is common with a lot of titles I would say. It was partly due to back then only being able to eat our pie instead of getting it today and bitching about it on forums.

[Ian Sane]

One thing to note is that as more sequels are introduced there is a greater body of work to compare to.  When A Link to the Past came out it had only two games to compare to.  Ocarina of Time only had four.  Twilight Princess could be compared with eleven.

[Luigi Dude]

When A Link to the Past came out it had only two games to compare to. 

Not only that but the NES Zelda's even back in the early 90's were starting to show their age.  Link to the Past managed to take what the original started and not only made it way more playable, but improved on the gameplay so much that it made the original NES game obsolete in comparison.

This is why Link to the Past is pretty much universally praised and is no surprised it won the contest, since it's the Zelda that really made the series a pinnacle of game design it is today.  After it came out, it's kind of impossible to improve on the series any more since Link to the Past pretty much perfected the gameplay and so all that could be done is build on it.

This is why even though Ocarina of Time was being called the greatest game ever made by the gaming media back in 98, the Zelda fans weren't so thrilled.  I remember many editorials from Zelda fansite back then calling it a great game, but saying lacked the magic of Link to the Past.

[vudu]

Not only that but the NES Zelda's even back in the early 90's were starting to show their age.  Link to the Past managed to take what the original started and not only made it way more playable, but improved on the gameplay so much that it made the original NES game obsolete in comparison.

For what it's worth, I would expect the exact same results if we were to run a Metroid series poll--Super Metroid would win in a landslide.

[UltimatePartyBear]

This is why even though Ocarina of Time was being called the greatest game ever made by the gaming media back in 98, the Zelda fans weren't so thrilled.  I remember many editorials from Zelda fansite back then calling it a great game, but saying lacked the magic of Link to the Past.

I blame Hyrule Field.  It's empty and boring except when it's endlessly spawning annoying enemies.  It only exists for the sake of "Look at the size of that thing" epic showiness, but then the thrill wore off and it became an impediment to the gameplay.

[Ian Sane]

This is why even though Ocarina of Time was being called the greatest game ever made by the gaming media back in 98, the Zelda fans weren't so thrilled.  I remember many editorials from Zelda fansite back then calling it a great game, but saying lacked the magic of Link to the Past.

I didn't have much for internet access back then so I really don't know what people were thinking at the time.  But one thing that really stood out to me when Ocarina of Time came out is that it had this incredible scope and ambition that few games, period, had at the time.  The level of detail it had was very new and exciting at the time.  Half-Life and Metal Gear Solid came out around the same time and they too got a lot of praise for some things that are very routine today.  The first 3D generation brought this ability to really create a world with all sorts of touches that 2D games couldn't do.
 
Ocarina of Time had all these sword swipes and context sensitive actions so you could ride a horse and push this and pick up that.  You could switch to first person view at any time.  You had to play individual notes on your Ocarina.  You could travel through time and thus play as both a child and an adult.  Day and night passed as time went on.  This was all really ambitious stuff at the time and you take A Link to the Past, make it 3D, and add all THIS and no wonder people thought it was the best game ever.  When I first played OoT I spent like ten minutes CUTTING UP SIGNS because I could cut it differently depending on what sword swipe I used.  Does anyone ever bother with something like that now?
 
No Zelda game can have that big jump that OoT had.  The hook of the game is that they went for broke and included every detail they could think of.  Everything in comparison is going to be incremental.

[MoronSonOfBoron]

Wow, I was the lone vote for Phantom Hourglass?

[Spak-Spang]

Ian Sane:  I dunno.  I wouldn't say 2D games can't have that same level of detail...in fact in many aspects I think it can have equal or possibly even more interactions.

Lets see...Link to the Past had basically everything you could do in OoT in it.  Cut signs, pick up bushes, cut pushes, travel between two similar worlds.  I think people limit 2D gaming because they feel that 3rd Dimension adds something...but it very rarely actually adds anything detail wise that can't be done in 2D.

I do agree that Zelda OoT had incredible details though.  Specially for that time.

[TJ Spyke]

For what it's worth, I would expect the exact same results if we were to run a Metroid series poll--Super Metroid would win in a landslide.

I highly doubt it, I would expect Metroid Prime to easily win (and rightfully so since it is easily one of the best games ever).

[UncleBob]

The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (GCN)    - 2 (12.5%)
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap (GBA)    - 2 (12.5%)
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (GCN/Wii)    - 8 (50%)
The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)    - 1 (6.3%)
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (NES, GBA, VC)    - 2 (12.5%)
The Legend of Zelda (NES, GBA, VC)    - 1 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

[UncleBob]

I figured TP would take 6th (after the last two rounds, not from the beginning).

What's interesting is that there's no clear 7th place at this point (not via the new poll, but from looking at previous polls).  Are we less than halfway through and we're already scraping the bottom of the barrel?

I went with Four Swords Adventures again.  Great game.  Love the battle mode.  In fact, I'd love to see the battle mode expanded into a full game that would be a cross between it and Smash Bros.  I call it Super Sprite Bros. and it a 2D, sprite based battler featuring Nintendo characters and powerups from the history of Nintendo.

[vudu]

For what it's worth, I would expect the exact same results if we were to run a Metroid series poll--Super Metroid would win in a landslide.

I highly doubt it, I would expect Metroid Prime to easily win (and rightfully so since it is easily one of the best games ever).

We shall see--Bob, after this series has run its course you know what to do!

[BeautifulShy]

Zelda 2 same reasons I stated when I voted for it before.

[broodwars]

I didn't vote in the last one (I forgot to do so before the poll expired), but I think I'll go for Four Swords Adventures this time.  My only major problem with that game was with the soundtrack (seriously, why wasn't the LttP Lost Woods theme used when you're in the Lost Woods in Four Swords Adventures?).  Otherwise, it was a more beautiful LttP, and a surprisingly serviceable Single-Player game.

[Stratos]

I rarely got to play it with other people and never beat it, but the few times I did play it with friends it was awesome.

[Mop it up]

Everyone time a new Zelda comes out on the home consoles the fans love to hate it and suddenly praise the previous one.  Majora's Mask was hated until Wind Waker came out, and then Wind Waker was hated until Twilight Princess came out.

How do you know it was the same people? Different voices speak up at different times, it doesn't mean the same people hated the game and then changed their minds later.

[Gameboy Freak]

Obviously I had to vote for the Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Master Quest! It's totally a super special awesome remix of my favorite video game after all!

FYI: I received my CIB copy of the Japanese version of Ocarina of Time yesterday and in the words of NintendoCapriSun "So Happy!".

[UncleBob]

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time: Master Quest (GCN)    - 1 (5.9%)
The Legend of Zelda: Oracle of Seasons (GBC)    - 1 (5.9%)
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords (GBA)    - 1 (5.9%)
The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventures (GCN)    - 4 (23.5%)
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap (GBA)    - 3 (17.6%)
The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (DS)    - 2 (11.8%)
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (NES, GBA, VC)    - 3 (17.6%)
The Legend of Zelda (NES, GBA, VC)    - 2 (11.8%)

Total Members Voted: 17

[BeautifulShy]

Zelda 2 for the reasons I stated before.