Topic: Square Enix expects FF13 to revive Japanese console market

[noname2200]

So dodging the debate about crappy game and old dinosaurs, can we all agree that Squeenix was wrong?

[Peachylala]

Yes.

[Pale]

Does it really matter if they were right or wrong though? Do we all really enjoy watching marketing speech end up incorrect? If so, we must all be extremely happy people.

[noname2200]

Does it really matter if they were right or wrong though?

Yes.

Do we all really enjoy watching marketing speech end up incorrect?

Yes!

 

If so, we must all be extremely happy people.

YES! 

[Ian Sane]

I was initially considering buying FF13.  I had just bought a PS3 and this was this big game due to come out soon so why not?  But as I read into it I got turned off.  It seemed like they had stripped out everything I liked about RPGs and had turned the game into a linear path.  It looked like their attempt to revive RPGs was to put MORE focus on the story and graphics and presentation and cut out gameplay.  Now maybe I'm not being fair to the actual final product since I didn't play it.  But that's kind of the point, isn't it?  They had turned me off so I didn't give it a full chance.  I think it's likely that others might have been turned off in the same way.

Now I'm not against change in a videogame series.  The fact that Final Fantasy always tinkers with their battle system and has a new cast of characters each time is something I think is great.  But it sounded like they were just going for broke on the superfiscial stuff and, ooops, we don't have time for the actual game, better cut out the towns.

[broodwars]

Now I'm not against change in a videogame series.  The fact that Final Fantasy always tinkers with their battle system and has a new cast of characters each time is something I think is great.  But it sounded like they were just going for broke on the superfiscial stuff and, ooops, we don't have time for the actual game, better cut out the towns.

Considering that Final Fantasy has never made towns altogether interesting places (even Rabanaster in FF XII, which is probably the best one the series has ever done), I don't mind the loss of them.  They're just places that exist for you to run around without fighting, engaging in tedious banter with people who don't matter and never contribute anything to the story, and provide the player with places to loot and buy crap.  As for "cutting out gameplay", there's plenty there just with a focus on management and ensuring your party is always in the optimal configuration for any given situation.  People just like to whine because it's done differently than Final Fantasy's ever done it before; because it's not what they expected; and because it's not how the genre's always been done (that apparently makes it a bad idea for some reason).  It's somewhat amusing, because I'll read these complaints from people, and often then they'll turn right around and praise a spectacularly mediocre or bad RPG like Resonance of Fate or something, just because it's more "traditional."

It's a shame that it doesn't look like FF XIII will appeal to you, Ian, because it is an excellent game.  I've been playing RPGs or RPG-like games since I was 5, so in terms of the genre I've seen it all by now.  FF XIII tries to tackle the genre from a relatively new angle, and that's something that appeals to me.  I just wish the story was more compelling than it is.  FF X still blows it away in that regard, even if I enjoy the FF XIII battle and character development mechanics a lot more.

[Nick DiMola]

Final Fantasy XIII had an amazing battle system. I too have played far too many RPGs, and FFXIII was a breath of fresh air. The designers clearly took a moment to analyze what it is you do in an RPG for the majority of the time, and they streamlined that experience beautifully in the game.

While I won't disagree that the game was extremely linear, most RPGs are also linear, they just do a better job of pretending they're not. The bottom line for me was that the combat and story were so much more interesting than your typical RPG that I was able to completely ignore the linearity and just enjoy the finely crafted parts of the game.

[KDR_11k]

Dunno, I really liked the combat in Resonance of Fate and it's not just "hit attack until everybody's dead" (unless the enemies are so far below your level that you can't be arsed to really bother with them but even then you have to watch for things like removing front armor before bringing in the SMG).

[Ian Sane]

They're just places that exist for you to run around without fighting, engaging in tedious banter with people who don't matter and never contribute anything to the story, and provide the player with places to loot and buy crap.

For me that stuff you just mentioned is a big part of the appeal of RPGs for me.  The battles and grinding and stuff all feels like filler to pad the game.  It may be that Square Enix underestimated what people like and don't like about RPGs and cut out the wrong stuff.
 
Nick mentioned that while all RPGs are linear, they usually do a better job of pretending they're not.  I think that's dead on.  Hell, all videogames are linear if you think about it.  It's just a difference of the path being a straight line or a zig-zagging one where you have to backtrack.
 
As I said, I haven't played it so I can't really judge the game itself.  But if we're looking back and wondering why it didn't sell like expected I'm providing a reason why I didn't buy it and maybe that applies to others as well.

[Pale]

For me, RPGs are all about the feeling of accomplishment that comes with player growth and the movie like story telling.

That's why I love 13.  The linearity makes for wonderful story telling.  Character improvement is extremely fluid.  The removal of mana means you can see all the fancy new abilities a lot.  And I like noticing the players use the new abilities randomly in their AI.

[broodwars]

Out of curiosity since you like FF XIII, Pale, have you played Valkyria Chronicles yet?  That game's awesome, and a great example of a company looking at how to move the RPG genre forward by incorporating elements of other genres.  It's essentially a Tactical Strategy RPG that plays like a 3rd person shooter, with a very streamlined Exp. system that means you only have to grind if you really want to.

[KDR_11k]

For me accomplishment is about what I do, not what my characters do. If it's stat-based I only take pride in it if it takes my skill at assembling something (Stratosphere's fortresses, Banjo & Kazooie's cars, Resonance of Fate's weapon upgrades). In RoF the stats are based much more on the crazy crap you stick on your guns than the experience points of your characters (in fact the only level I even care about is the SMG level because that translates to a damage multipler - with the right upgrades on the gun). When playing Dungeon Maker at first I also felt challenged and pushed to operate at the limit but that feeling went away not much later.

Of course there's always Dawn of War 2 to point at. Best SRPG I've played.

[Pale]

I checked out the demo of Valkyria Chronicles and liked it, but haven't picked it up.  It's honestly extremely difficult for a game to get in my systems at this point.  I have less free time than I used to, and I enjoy playing the games I do for extended periods of time (coming up on three months of playing FF 13 at least three times a week).

[Ymeegod]

"People just like to whine because it's done differently than Final Fantasy's ever done it before; because it's not what they expected; and because it's not how the genre's always been done"

Actually, I didn't mind the chances the took with FFX-2 (one of the few on this forum that seemed to play it) or even with FFXII.  I just don't see why the scrap the good, example would be FFXII gambit system, just to get something "fresh".  I call foul when there's something stinky in the air.

In fact this whole generation, Square has let me down:  Infinite Undiscovery, Star Ocean 4, Last Remnant (didn't even bother to finish this one), Nier, and finally FF  Crystal Bearers.  The only decent title in that lot was maybe SO4 (it's passable at least).  There's a few DS/PSP titles that are worth a damn but Squaresoft used to one of those publishers that I had to buy every game on release day but now they are some third rated joke who continue to sell high based on past fame.

Speaking of VC--now there's a game I can wholly support.  Going replay it after I finish up Oblivion and I think I might even download the new missions (think there's 4 DLC packs now).

When does VC2 for the PSP come out?

[broodwars]

When does VC2 for the PSP come out?

I think sometime this Fall, but I haven't cared enough to check.  I'm not buying a PSP just to play a watered-down and slugged with the JRPG cliche stick (yay...they're all in school now...because that's entirely new and fresh) sequel to a game I really loved on the PS3.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

http://www.upload.ee/image/628206/500-yen-ff13.jpg

Bill:  "saving the japanese gaming industry am i rite"

[KDR_11k]

I think by now we shouldn't be surprised to see massive discounts in Japan, it's just how their market works.

[Ymeegod]

VC2 has a date now: August 11th. 

As for the whole school class room thing, yeah alot of games have that (persona anyone) but it might have a twist because it's a military school.  Instead of math--you'll have ballistics, ect.  . 

While, I'm not the biggest fan of the PSP, it does have some games worth checking out and you can get the system really cheap sub-100 easy.  Can't blame Sega for not making a proper sequel though, the sales didn't fare well and I'll take this over NOTHING at all like Skies of Arcadia . 

[ThePerm]

forget the console market