Author Topic: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG  (Read 39966 times)

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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2010, 11:13:26 AM »
Duely noted yoshi. This time around I basically tried to boosts everybodies weak area. I of course raised everbody's strong stat a bit but my primary focus was their weak stat.

Anyway I beat it with Mario,Mallow and Toadstool. A bit more challenging since I used Mallow for healing. In the bosses first form. I had the most trouble. I had to try and prevent Smithy from making more Pogo ShyGuys. This was probably the hardest since I was being bombarded by attacks that hit everybody. I used one or 2 PickMeUps during this time. Once I got it down Smithy only it was pretty easy. I am learning more about Smithy with each fight.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2010, 01:14:36 PM »
Ah, I see, Maxi. That's a cool experiment. I'll be interested to hear which combinations were the toughest.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2010, 01:23:22 PM »
Well I would imagine that Mario,Geno, and Bowser would be the toughest. Nobody has any healing arts. I woke up a little bit ago got to wake up fully then I will begin again.
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Offline Sundoulos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2010, 02:29:36 PM »
I've tried that combination before...as long as you have enough healing items, it can be done.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2010, 11:47:07 PM »
So I beat the game with all of the combinations. Here is the items that I had in all of the battles. 6 Max Mushrooms, 3 Fp items that healed 40 FP. 3 FP items that healed 80 FP.6 Pick Me Ups.5 Freshen up.That item that heals all the party of status conditions.2 of those items that healed the entire party fully.Finally 3 Rock Candys.
In this battle with Mario,Bowser, and Geno I went after Smithy in the first part of match instead of trying to go after the foe making enemy as I did in the previous matches. I had to use 2 Max Mushrooms in the first part of the battle. Once I got to the second part I used Bowser for the healing items since I equiped him with the Lazy Shell. I had Peach equip it before.He had the most HP in my group so he would last the longest.
Anyway for the most part I just did my normal attacks with Mario and Geno could boost everybodys defence and attack. When both the top and the bottom and top of a form was active I would focus Mario and Bowser on different parts of the body while Geno used his attack that hits all the enemys. Later on I ran out of Max Mushrooms but I did have Pick me ups and 2 of those items that healed everybody.
So I ran out of Max Mushrooms. So I would use up my Pickmeups next then the fully healed items.
I beat Smithy with Genos help mainly but Bowser and Mario helped alot.

Anyway I think these will be my final thoughts on the game.

If you guys want you can try my little experiment if you like.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2010, 01:54:00 AM »
I really liked the Axem Rangers. I like how they are portrayed as evil doppelgangers tp the power rangers. It was kind of interesting to fight five bosses at once and the phrases that each member said when they were defeated was just hilarious. My only dissapointment was that the Blade airship did not transform into some kind of mech for your team to fight and instead just fought the head of the ship, Blaster.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2010, 03:37:37 AM »
Didn't Nintendo create a DS game for Club Nintendo in Japan that featured the Axiom Rangers as the stars?
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Offline vudu

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2010, 02:00:59 PM »
I hadn't noticed if the game keeps track of your playing time. Anyone know roughly what their time to completion is?
I beat the game when it came out on VC a couple years ago.  According to the Nintendo Channel my completion time was 20 hours, 32 minutes.  It was my first time through the game and I beat every side quest.  I didn't max out all characters, but I think everyone's level was above 25.
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2010, 11:23:26 PM »
So I'm throwing in the towel on 30 jumps. For whatever reason, I can't get past 21. Truly, this is a sign that I have no rhythm.

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #84 on: February 19, 2010, 04:23:25 AM »
So I'm throwing in the towel on 30 jumps. For whatever reason, I can't get past 21. Truly, this is a sign that I have no rhythm.
The timing of when you have to press the button starts to change after every few jumps, and the window of opportunity also gets smaller. I guess it takes trial and error.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2010, 10:07:31 AM »
So I've never played this game before, though I really enjoy the Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi serieseses. (They're pretty much the only RPGs that I can stand to play.) Started it up yesterday night, and fell asleep within about half an hour. It isn't too bad, though. I was just tired (and RPGs are boring).

My impression so far is that it almost seems like Square was already working on a game, and Nintendo paid them to insert Mario and the gang a ala Dinosaur Planet
/StarFox Adventures. I wonder why Square felt the need to create characters like Mallow and Geno when the Mushroom Kingdom already had a pretty rich cast (albeit not as rich as it is now). The whole "Smithy Gang" thing is kind of bizarre. Also, the environment feels kind of like a funhouse Mushroom Kingdom, like a Korean knockoff. Everyone looks slightly off. Like how Mario's eyes are all googly and close together (did Rare assist with the design?).

It seems that Nintendo wasn't too bowled over with Square's original contributions, either, since they seem to have disappeared into the annals of time, unlike externally-created characters like Waluigi or even Krystal. The Mario Universe particularly is such a melange of unique parts of strange origin (Doki Doki Panic, sports games, etc.). It seems odd that Nintendo hasn't done much with these characters since, even in fanservicey kind of games like the Mario & Luigi. Come to think of it, I recall seeing that the characters belonged to both Nintendo and Square, so maybe Square owns the original characters it created in the game. It's a testament to their bargaining power that Nintendo let them keep the rights. I guess they will be in limbo until Mushroom Kingdom Hearts, when a badass realistic Geno (and a badass realistic Mallow?) comes charging in all of a sudden and fanboys across the world swoon.

Anyway, because of how the areas are segmented and rather small, the adventure feels a bit less epic than it could. And unlike the PM/M&L series, Super Mario RPG seems to take itself fairly seriously. In true Square fashion, there are also a lot of moments in which control is taken away from the player. Mario is typically all about direct control. Learning through exploration (and tiny signboards), rather than narration. Well, perhaps that's untrue. The overarching 'plot' is often shown in a brief cutscene. SMRPG is definitely more cutscene-heavy, though. They even have one every time you enter an area like Bowser's Castle (or whatever that Castle is supposed to be).

Which brings us to the graphics. I remember being blown away by screenshots of this game (when it came out), but I don't know how well they've held up. The pre-rendered look is kind of dated now, and this game seems far more dithered and artifacted than something like Donkey Kong Country (perhaps because of the brighter color palette?). You can also tell it isn't a Nintendo game because of the isometric viewpoint. I don't know if that's ever been a good idea, especially in a game with platforming (even Q-Bert had difficult controls). But this game doesn't seem to require much precision when navigating the world, so it isn't too bad. And it does give the game a unique feel. The navigation doesn't really feel Mario, but the controls are decent and it's enjoyable enough to bound around. I liked the little touches, like the springy bed. It would be nice if those kinds of things lead to hidden areas and treasures, and such. We'll see.

The music has been very nice so far. No complaints. I think whoever composed that main theme is going places.

The combat is a tad underwhelming, coming from Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi, because those games take the ideas so much farther, and feel so much more tactile and satisfying. However, I can recognize that this was a pretty groundbreaking system for the time (the genesis of the best, most involving battle system in any turn-based RPG, in my opinion), and it is still an effective upgrade from the traditional RPG for me. Love the involvement, love the lack of random battles. And the lack of obvious visual/aural feedback on the timing does add a bit of challenge, even if the overall difficulty balance of the game seems to be fairly gentle (especially coming off of Shiren the Wanderer DS). I did die once, but that was more due to the lack of feedback on my low health. Still, the timing/damage model seems a bit more analog than that of PM/M&L. The leveling system seems pretty streamlined, and I haven't come across anything like a badge system. I'm not sure how deep the strategy of the game will get, but I'm guessing not very. I certainly don't mind the lack of stat-crunching, though.

So, yeah. Those are my impressions from a half-hour in. It may seem like I was just bitching, but I actually did enjoy my time with the game, and I don't regret buying it (yet). I shall continue the archaeological dig.

Oh, and I liked the little slot machine bit after some battles, but probably would've preferred a mini-game that was a bit less luck-based.


Does anyone know the development history surrounding Super Mario RPG? I've heard that Square and Nintendo weren't on the best of terms at that point in time. That might give some interesting historical perspective on the game. Plus, it would be pretty fascinating to hear about the ins and outs (and philosophical differences) of a Square/Nintendo team project. How much input did Nintendo really have?

They have recently teamed up again with Mario Hoops (what a bizarre project for Squintendo to tackle), and I guess Brownie Brown is kind of an interdimensional link between the two publishers.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 10:31:58 AM by anand »

Offline yoshi1001

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2010, 09:50:02 PM »
One thing I will point out is that enemy attacks aren't really diverse enough, particularly in the end. If you've spent the time to go through everything, there aren't many surprises in the final boss.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2010, 08:08:12 PM »
Played a bit more. I guess there is a 'badge' system, although it seems a bit utilitarian, like "Wear this to prevent poison", "Wear this to prevent falling asleep", etc.

I still can't believe they went with the Congo Bongo perspective for the overworld platforming. Even successfully jumping on a save block is a challenge in spatial reasoning.

The game seems a bit longer than I expected after grabbing the first star. I feel like most of that length comes from endless battles through fairly small environments, though. Battle upon battle upon battle. Which is kind of a problem, since they feel so similar to each other and don't require any strategy, really. It gets to be a bit much, and I wish the game just cut about half of the enemies. All other things being equal, I would probably enjoy it a lot more.

Which is strange, because in Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario, I would actually seek out battles. They were almost as strategy-shy, but just felt much more impactful and arcadey.

There have been some charming bits in SMRPG (like the tadpole song), but also many clunky elements (like the tadpole song), and the cutscenes are a bit lengthy, overall. I do appreciate Mario's overall zippiness, though the game is slowed down somewhat by battle transitions/animations/epilogues/etc., a problem that is compounded when the battles start stacking up.

It is probably unfair to keep comparing Super Mario RPG to its successors, but I've heard a lot of people say that they prefer Mario RPG to the modern entries, and... nostalgia is a hell of a drug. PM and M&L outclass SMRPG on pretty much every level, particularly when it comes to combat and writing.

But it's decent. If I rented it, I probably wouldn't feel compelled to finish it, but I bought it, so I will. Folly begets folly.

Offline Bboy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #88 on: February 21, 2010, 06:40:46 PM »
I really don't like this game. I don't know what it is but the Mario RPG's always just bore me. I tried to play the Thousand Year Door, and was actually really exited for it, and I got about 3/4 of the way through it only to give up out of sheer boredom. This game is the same way, only worse, because I don't have any illusions that it is going to get better at some point because of my reaction to the other games.
The combat takes just enough attention to be obnoxious. Everyone seems to love the idea that you have to pay attention to the combat, but really, for me it's so simple that I'm bored, but it takes too much attention for me to be able to do something else at the same time, like I do with a lot of turn-based RPGs. It makes every single battle extremely tedious, the same problem I had with the Thousand Year Door. I understand why people like this game, but for me it's just too tedious, and the writing isn't really good enough to get me through it, so it's just aggravating. I might come back to this at some point and try to plough farther in, but at this point, I'm just frustrated, and I don't think I'm very far in at all.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #89 on: February 21, 2010, 07:58:14 PM »
One question I do have (and a comparison to CT) is that you always have Mario in your party. If you had complete freedom (like after Crono "dies"), what would your team be?
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Offline Shaymin

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2010, 11:29:58 PM »
Mario-Peach-Geno here. Like it or not, Mario with the Lazy Shell (weapon) is still the best physical attacker in the game, Peach is still the best healer, and I'm able to time Geno Boost for the defense+attack buff every time on everyone.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2010, 04:31:19 AM »
One question I do have (and a comparison to CT) is that you always have Mario in your party. If you had complete freedom (like after Crono "dies"), what would your team be?
Still Mario, with Mallow and Geno. Peach is weak and her healing is unnecessary, and Bowser is pretty useless and weak against most special attacks. I always go for the attack/defense stat boost which makes everyone powerhouses. There's not much need for other healing items besides the Pick-Me-Up item, it's only five coins and it revives the character to full HP. Besides, since I fight every enemy, I'm always over-leveled, so nobody really gives me trouble.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2010, 04:33:03 AM »
What do you all think about those bizarre killer chests that seem ridiculously overpowered? I always thought they were strange and they gave me so much trouble.
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Offline BeautifulShy

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2010, 04:38:07 AM »
Well I haven't found many of them. If I recall correctly its Defence is high while its Special Defence isn't that good. Now that I think about it Tales of Symphonia and Golden Sun has those types of enemys as well. I kinda like the idea of a Monster Treasure Chest. It is like the developer likes messing with the players mind.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2010, 04:38:35 AM »
The Jump special greatly damages those enemies, so I don't have much problem with them.

In all honesty, they kind of creep me out. Any inanimate object which is actually alive doesn't sit right with me.

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2010, 06:56:42 AM »
Yeah, similar monsters are in many JRPGs. I'm just wondering what significance they have, if any.

They are rather frustrating because you may not be prepared to face them because you are hoping for something like a healing item.
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Offline Kytim89

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2010, 10:14:53 PM »
I finally booted up SMRPG only to find that my save file was gone; I must have last played it before my Wii had to be repaired and the memory wiped. I'm not thrilled about starting over again, but I wasn't too far last time (the mole town).

Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.

I backed up my save data for the game on my SD card in preparation for this kind of thing, or if I ever reformatted my wii by accident.
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Offline Mop it up

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2010, 11:25:54 PM »
Yeah, similar monsters are in many JRPGs. I'm just wondering what significance they have, if any.

They are rather frustrating because you may not be prepared to face them because you are hoping for something like a healing item.
I think that's the point, they are supposed to surprise you and catch you off guard. Perhaps it's a way to teach you to always be prepared? If I remember rightly, they give you a good amount of experience points and a nice item, so they are worth fighting.

Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.
No, that would be Final Fantasy on the NES, which I was never too into. This wasn't the first RPG I played on the Super NES either, as that was, fittingly, Final Fantasy II. It was the first Mario RPG I played however, and I do think that is key for one's enjoyment of the game. Certain elements of the game are more played out in the later Mario RPG games, though none of them are able to give Bowser so much character!

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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2010, 12:11:21 AM »
I backed up my save data for the game on my SD card in preparation for this kind of thing, or if I ever reformatted my wii by accident.

I backed up mine too, but for whatever reason (possibly a corrupted SD card, which I have since replaced), my save files were found to be incompatible with any games I tested after the repair.
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Re: RetroActive #11 Discussion: Super Mario RPG
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2010, 12:48:36 AM »
Question for all of you saying it's one of your favorite games: was this your first RPG? Nintendo and Square were definitely going for a fresh audience here, and I wonder if the Final Fantasy 7 effect (also the first RPG for many people) extends to SMRPG.

Nope. I think I played a bunch of Final Fantasys for NES, SNES and Game Boy, Dragon Quest, Chrono Trigger, and more.
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