Topic: Game Journalism

[Deguello]

I actually was about to mention UBISoft as a developer and prime supplier of DS shovelware, who only recently blamed the DS for their games losing $200 million in revenue from 2008 to 2009, also citing lower DS sales (WTF).  When in reality, these guys have published like 70 Petz games in the span of 3 years or so, and even Wal-mart had to ask them to stop.  UBIsoft even blamed the film Avatar and James Cameron for their Avatar game not selling well.

Also, it probably didn't help that they didn't exactly lead off well on the Wii, so even if they promised to make better games (which they did) they still have to face down that stigma.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Okay, so your issues also include boneheaded (probably unauthorized) comments by executives.  That's STILL not what this thread is about, so let's get back to the topic at hand. 

[Halbred]

GC games that were "easily ported" to other consoles, thus UncleBob has little to no interest in them:

Viewtiful Joe
RE4

The Wii version of Silent Hill was the lead skew, the PS2 and PSP ports were cash-grabs for people who bought SH: Origins.

[Deguello]

Okay, so your issues also include boneheaded (probably unauthorized) comments by executives.  That's STILL not what this thread is about, so let's get back to the topic at hand. 

I think all other points are made abundantly clear just by their wall of shovelware.  Anything they did do worthwhile was budget-choked and they chose not to market with anything, and everybody began to associate that swirly-blue dot on the bottom right with shovelware, and it's well deserved.

[Peachylala]

Okay, so your issues also include boneheaded (probably unauthorized) comments by executives.  That's STILL not what this thread is about, so let's get back to the topic at hand. 

I think all other points are made abundantly clear just by their wall of shovelware.  Anything they did do worthwhile was budget-choked and they chose not to market with anything, and everybody began to associate that swirly-blue dot on the bottom right with shovelware, and it's well deserved.

Also note that Red Steel 2 is what is going to make or break them with the Nintendo non-casual audience. They screw up, heads are going to roll.
 
 

[Chozo Ghost]

Was the intent of this thread to engender polite discussion?  No, its intent was to continue the dialogue of, "Look how bad third parties suck on the Wii.

This thread tells it like it is. Maybe it is saying third parties suck on the Wii, but is that not the honest truth? I understand the truth hurts at times, but it shouldn't be censored. I hope third parties are out there looking at this thread so they can understand why they've failed.

[NWR_DrewMG]

I hope the third parties of the world have better things to do than look at forums.   Like making better games.

[Peachylala]

I hope the third parties of the world have better things to do than look at forums.   Like making better games that are not going to be for Wii.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Okay, so your issues also include boneheaded (probably unauthorized) comments by executives.  That's STILL not what this thread is about, so let's get back to the topic at hand. 

This thread is about the sheer amount of crap vs good and how the good don't stand out on their own against a wall of crap that surrounds it. I don't see how that point is so easy for you to miss when we keep pointing out over and over again.

This thread isn't saying that 3rd parties suck and all their games suck and they should die in horrible fire fueled by all the crap that they have made. It's saying that 3rd parties need to only look inward to see why their games are failing and that we aren't the problem. You can't take a dump in a bowl, cover it with whip cream, sprinkles and put a cherry on top, hand me a spoon and then wonder why I don't want to dig in.
I think it's quite obvious why I'm not just digging in and eagerly move towards the other table to see what Nintendo is serving up instead.

The Wall was not created because shovelware exist, it was created to show how much shovelware was made in relation to how many games were released. If we asked you to review the Wall of Ubi alone, you would literally be cursing out Ubisoft for 80% of the games you were forced into playing.

[NWR_DrewMG]

Like making better games that are not going to be for Wii.

Apparently no one told Climax or Capcom or Square Enix that.

[NWR_DrewMG]

I don't see how that point is so easy for you to miss when we keep pointing out over and over again.

Just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean that I'm missing the point.   You're confusing dissension with stupidity.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well you keep trying to tell us what this thread is about, when we know exactly what it is about.

I'm pretty sure it's about 3rd parties failing as Wii developers and publishers and trying to pass the blame to everyone but themselves regardless of what their entire release schedule looks like.

But....

That's STILL not what this thread is about, so let's get back to the topic at hand. 

It's like looking at a mozaic picture of a turd, and when you zoom in, most of the pics are pics of turds, but if you didn't look so hard you might have missed the few pictures of sunsets and flowers and children having fun. Maybe if I had told you ahead of time that those pics were in there, you would have known to look for them, but I didn't, so it's likely you would just move onto the next pic.

[ejamer]

.....

we don't have an animated laughing .gif that I can post 10x in a row do we?

Thanks.  Speaking of not understanding what a post is about, it's great to see that my fears of Wii boards being overrun by silly negativity were completely unfounded.
 
Edit: Note to self, don't bother responding in the future.  The "PhD in Penis Fencing" tagline proudly displayed by some users should tell you what to expect for conversation.
 

[KDR_11k]

The problem isn't "too much shovelware", it's "too little everything else."

It's the ratio that's the problem so more else or less shovelware has the same effect.

[D_Average]

Nintendo came to my town once in a van so I could try Mario Kart Wii. Where the hell are the third party vans?  If they only invested in more vans, we need more vans to generate buzz for games like DSE.

[Stogi]

I'd just like to say this and only this:

I look forward to the Nintendo Wall of Glory

oh and Leela,



"There's nothing wrong with anything"

[Peachylala]

Didn't Unclebob make one already?

[UncleBob]

There are so many things I want to respond to(like the idea of compairing a company porting from one system to the other within the same generation vs. porting from a current generation's system to a last gen system), but I can't quote posts from the mobile forum, so it'll have to wait.

But the PS2 shovelware topic has came up. Would someone be interested in building a wall of, say, Ubi's PS2 games?

[BlackNMild2k1]

.....

we don't have an animated laughing .gif that I can post 10x in a row do we?

Thanks.  Speaking of not understanding what a post is about, it's great to see that my fears of Wii boards being overrun by silly negativity were completely unfounded.
 
Edit: Note to self, don't bother responding in the future.  The "PhD in Penis Fencing" tagline proudly displayed by some users should tell you what to expect for conversation.
 

Just to clarify, I was only laughing at your comment that Lindy's response deserved an ovation, one that was standing at that, but I should have just stated that.

Trust me, the last thing I'm trying to do is "fence" off a potential new regular with my "PhD" in "Penis" usage (I forget where that tag even came from, I think it was a comment Easycure made). But as for the rest of your post

Sometimes it seems like people online fail to distinguish between trolling for comments and generating discussion.  Post (or page) count isn't what makes a thread successful - the ideas and subsequent discussion generated are!
 
That said, it can be harder to generate discussion without a little bit of controversy sometimes... but does it ever get tiring to read these negative (and often ridiculous) threads in every Wii forum online.  Is it only like this for Nintendo, or do Sony/Microsoft gaming forums have the same issues?

The only reason this thread comes off as negative, is because it's pointing out the negativity of 3rd parties. If you were to go to a Sony/MS forum I'm sure most of the Wii discussion is on how the Wii doesn't have any games, how the Wii is a gimmick, how the wiimote sucks, how Nintendo allows only their games to sell on Wii, etc. etc.
This thread isn't necessarily to bash the 3rd parties, but to just point out the error in their ways. It's alot harder to defend the 3rd party efforts on Wii while the Wall is sitting right in front of you, which is the whole reason the wall exist in the first place.

as for your SH commentary, that has already been addressed by myself and others in direct responses to UB.

[BlackNMild2k1]

But the PS2 shovelware topic has came up. Would someone be interested in building a wall of, say, Ubi's PS2 games?

Why bother? Ubi's PS3 shovelware existed in the background. All their main games were well advertised and had plenty of gamer mindshare. Ubi wasn't stealth releasing core games behind a wall of crap and then complaining that crap we didn't even know existed wasn't selling and that it was out faults.

[ejamer]

Sometimes it seems like people online fail to distinguish between trolling for comments and generating discussion.  Post (or page) count isn't what makes a thread successful - the ideas and subsequent discussion generated are!
 
That said, it can be harder to generate discussion without a little bit of controversy sometimes... but does it ever get tiring to read these negative (and often ridiculous) threads in every Wii forum online.  Is it only like this for Nintendo, or do Sony/Microsoft gaming forums have the same issues?

The only reason this thread comes off as negative, is because it's pointing out the negativity of 3rd parties. If you were to go to a Sony/MS forum I'm sure most of the Wii discussion is on how the Wii doesn't have any games, how the Wii is a gimmick, how the wiimote sucks, how Nintendo allows only their games to sell on Wii, etc. etc.

...

Eh, don't mind me.  I found the tone of the thread quite hostile, and make a point of applauding anytime somebody calls out how negative internet fanboys can sound.  Maybe I'm just an old codger who would rather look at gaming (a hobby I retreat to for enjoyment and escapism) through rose-colored glasses and celebrate the best parts instead of beating down the worst.
 
-- snip --
Cutting some stuff that really isn't relevant
-- snip --

Oh, and my question about MS/Sony forums were whether they were so overwhelmingly negative towards their own consoles.
 
Do Sony fanboys gripe about the lack of games and terrible ports?  Are MS forums always abuzz about hardware issues and limited exposure to other genres?  Somehow I imagined they take more time talking about all the exciting games coming out instead - and Wii has no lack of great games scheduled for 2010!  Maybe I need to seek out those threads instead and leave this topic for people who prefer to talk about what is wrong with Wii.
 
Nothing wrong with disagreeing, maybe we'll find common ground in other threads instead.
 

[Halbred]

*rousing applause*

Well said, sir. Mario Galaxy 2, Other M, Monster Hunter Tri, maybe Wii Zelda, it's gonna be a helluva year.

[King of Twitch]

I hope the third parties of the world have better things to do than look at forums.   Like making better games.

Seems LikE a Good way to gEt feedback and commuNicate Directly with custOmers.

[BlackNMild2k1]

One last response before I likely walk away from this thread too.

Sometimes it feels like Wii "fans" are the absolute worst sort, who prefer to whine and complain than to appreciate what is set before them... focusing on a "wall of shame" instead of the dozens of individual games worth playing is just another example.

Are we really supposed to just be thankful for what we get and that is that?
I know we always have the option of buying a Xbox360 or PS3 for the gaming content we crave, but I own a Wii and I want games for my Wii.
The 3rd parties are bringing a literal feast to the table of the HD gamers and the owners of the Wii either get the items off the kids menu, left over table scraps or experimental side dishes.

Finally, my question about MS/Sony forums were whether they were so overwhelmingly negative towards their own consoles.  Do Sony fanboys gripe about the lack of games and terrible ports?  Are MS forums always abuzz about hardware issues and limited exposure to other genres?  Somehow I imagined they take more time talking about all the exciting games coming out instead - and Wii has no lack of great games scheduled for 2010!

I can't really speak on how Sony/MS fans converse on their own, but I'd imagine they have the mentality of "can do no wrong" link many Nintendo fans do for Nintendo products. But as far as talking about whats upcoming for the Wii.... all we can do is speculate since all we have are announcements of a games existence in most cases and impression of games that might not get localized in all the rest. You can only discuss the scraps of info on Zelda Wii for soooo long before the conversation moves onto something completely unrelated.

it's quite problematic that when 3rd Parties release a rare good Wii game, the difficulty for that game to succeed goes beyond "lack of advertising" and "lack of resources" -- the 3rd Parties have allowed the world to be the way it is, and their consistency in being so "hands-off" (anti-proactive?) implies they're OKAY WITH IT.
 
So maybe it boils down to "lack of advertising/resources" -- WHY, WHY, WHY does it continue to be that way?  WHY do the "good games" continue to be rare?  So maybe one or two good games have come out, but they're treated with so little promotional esteem that it doesn't improve the publisher's image -- WHY does it still feel like the publishers don't have anything left on the horizon (the familiar axing of support)?  What's left for customers to go by?  Stores and years of Walls of Shame.

Really, what is coming out from 3rd parties that we know about? What is it that we have to get excited about? where is the HYPE from the publishers? All they are known for at this point is the stuff people have bought from The Wall and by not advertising the games people should give a damn about, that is all they will continue to be known for.

So what do we have to look forward to from 3rd parties at this point?
Monster Hunter 3
Red Steel 2
Dragon Quest X
Epic Mickey

One of those is only rumored and the last might be released near the end of the year. Not a whole lot to discuss there.

[Halbred]

Are we really supposed to just be thankful for what we get and that is that?

.....yes?

What more do you want? I'm kept very busy by the stack of Wii games I currently own, alongside all the VC and WiiWare games I've picked up lately.