Topic: Radio Free Nintendo: Episode 167

[Jonnyboy117]

Billy Berghammer drops in to help us understand what makes games difficult, and why that can be a good thing.
 http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/podcastArt.cfm?artid=20188

 Episode 167: Return of the King    

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Jon couldn't make it this week, but we were fortunate to have Billy Berghammer fill his seat this week. Most of you know Billy as the founder of our website and former editor at Game Informer as well as G4 TV; he's got a new gig in the works but isn't spilling the beans just yet. Billy is a true gaming cosmopolitan these days, playing all the big hits like Halo 3: ODST, Uncharted 2, and Borderlands. He's still a Nintendo freak at heart though, so he also talks about his most anticipated games, like New Super Mario Bros. Wii and Sin & Punishment 2. Greg has updates on Kirby Super Star (VC) and Mario & Luigi 3; James dips into Last Remnant; and Jonny is more current with LostWinds 2, Abbey Road DLC for Beatles: Rock Band, and the recent sleeper hit, Little King's Story.    

Greg's signature feature segment is next, with a sprawling and perhaps even provocative conversation about the role of difficulty in gaming. We traverse sub-topics from "cheapness" to grinding and draw from examples like Contra 4 and F-Zero GX. It's one of our best feature discussions yet!    

Listener Mail continues the drama, with an intense debate over the merits of The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass and our hopes/fears regarding the upcoming Spirit Tracks sequel. We also talk about reality vs. perception in review bias against Wii games, and there's a glowing Shout Out for The Simpsons: Hit & Run.    

We're always looking for great Listener Mail to read and discuss on the show, so please send your questions or comments! (We really love seeing your praise and feedback regarding the show itself; however, in the interest of time, we may edit your letter to be read on the podcast.)      Credits:    

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.    

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their newest album, Done with the Devil, directly from the record label, Amazon.com, or iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!    

Additional music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is copyrighted to Nintendo, and is included under fair use protection.  

[AV]

Finally. !! My Sunday is incomplete without Radio Free Nintendo

i was getting bored and actually thought of doing homework waiting for RFN to pop up. I just checked and it's downloading. Praise the Lord !

[kraken613]

Awesome Billy is on! I am downloading now and about to listen!

[NWR_Neal]

I'm excited to listen to this. Sounds like an awesome feature and Simpsons Hit & Run is awesome. And it's always nice to hear from Billy. After all, he's sparkling personality that turned me onto this site and set me on my path that involves seriously considering games journalism as a profession.

[NWR_Lindy]

Sorry I couldn't make this one everybody.  Had something come up at the last minute.  However, I told my wife that Billy is a much more interesting guest than I am anyways, so no loss.

[Plugabugz]

I stayed up late on Sunday waiting for this to come out and unfortunately it didn't arrive in time for me.

My sunday is empty without RFN

[Yoshidious]

You can thank some very very slow upload speeds for that in large part--a particular problem when the files are quite large such as in the case of a lengthy episode like this one.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Just finished listening to episode 167. There was so much, I had to listen to it in two sittings, but I like the episodes with feature topics, because your opinions on these subjects has been uncovered territory up until this point. The discussion on difficulty was great, very extensive. All I will say is that if the Super Guide allows Nintendo to increase the challenge in future first-party software, I'm all for it, especially seeing as the feature itself totally optional. I have no intention of ever using it in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, but I'm looking forward to seeing how the later worlds in that game will test me (and in some cases the earlier worlds if friends are playing with me) now that they've supposedly ramped it up.

Listener Mail was a very enjoyable listen yet again; it may be overtaking New Business as my favourite segment of the podcast.
I think Phantom Hourglass gets a lot of undue flak for trying something different. The Temple of the Ocean King overstayed its welcome a bit, but was manageable if you were smart about the navigation - I found it better not to be stealthy and just ran past the Phantoms into the safe zones even if they were looking right at me. The other dungeons were fun though, as were the bosses and there were some inventive uses of the DS hardware at several points. Certainly isn't my favourite Zelda title, although it does compliment the sheer quality of the whole franchise when one of its instalments is considered a low-calibre entry into the series, yet still viewed more favourably than the majority of other games out there.

The Simpsons: Hit & Run rocks! And I spell Gamcube/GameCube differently all the time, depending on how meticulous I'm being as I type it. Who really cares?

[KDR_11k]

Oooooh, ****, the Phantom Hourglass discussion again... The temple was fine IMO, if you made sure to map out all the things and using your new items you basically played a different dungeon every time.

[Halbred]

Haven't listened to the whole podcast yet...I've got an hour left. I think game difficulty depends heavily on the game you're playing and the experience you want to get out of it. For most games I play, I start out on Normal just to get through the story and get the basic mechanics down. If I like the game a lot, the next time I play it, I ramp that **** up.

I will say that God of War and God of War 2, on their hardest difficulties (God and Titan, respectively) are fracking hard. There are rarely times where it's CHEAP, because it's all on you. Suddenly, Kratos' moveset matters a lot, and strategy begins to take hold. There are a few bottleneck sections in both games, but once you really start to live and breath the combat, it's totally doable.

[KDR_11k]

I liked how Eufloria has an "unlock features" menu option with the reasoning "it's your game after all" attached though it was damn easy anyway.

One example of difficulty making a major difference is IMO PN03, on easy you can kill stuff so fast you don't really have to dodge it (bosses can be killed with all your supers) but the game is really badly balanced with its first level being the longest in the game which will frustrate you and make you go to easy even though the parts after that may have let you stay on normal.

Grinding as a difficulty adjustment fails IMO when you do sidequests because you want to do them and then end up overlevelled.

Also what's with all the whining about the super guide when other games allow you to skip levels already? The mentioned Splosionman has the option (also if you die often enough, could very well be 8 times) and noone's calling the skip level feature the end of gaming.

[noname2200]

I'm only halfway through so far, but I gotta say I enjoyed the Little King love. It made me so happy...although I'm not sure what James is referring to about frustrating bosses later in the game. The only one that troubled me was the pinball fight, although the geography one can be tedious if you don't come in with the right team.

[KDR_11k]

Anyway, that PH mail smells like trolling. Since when is the sailing a positive side of Zelda PH and WW? It's terrible. That's not exploration, that's just tedium. You know what they did in the proper 2D days with connecting areas and exploration? They had a continuous overworld that you could explore on foot, what an amazing idea! Why can't we just dump this whole horse, ship, train bullshit and actually make the overworld continuous again without vast stretches of nothing intended only to make the world seem bigger and requiring some transportation and endless going in one direction? Why can't we have something interesting every 20 steps?

EDIT: I think polish tends to be overrated in a game's score. People think "this is fun but it's 'objectively' lower quality so I have to rate it lower". Examples: MaBoShi: Most people call it overrated and boring yet it has a REALLY high score. It's extremely polished with tons of extras but the core of the game is too bland. vs. EDF 2017: Called extremely fun by most but extremely unpolished, result being a low score.

[Halbred]

It's funny, after listening to the whole podcast, I started drafting a blog post about why Wind Waker is the best Zelda ever. Because it is. Deal with it. ;-)

[Jonnyboy117]

Anyway, that PH mail smells like trolling. Since when is the sailing a positive side of Zelda PH and WW? It's terrible. That's not exploration, that's just tedium.

I don't think it's trolling to be concerned about your favorite series that, in your opinion, has gone off the rails a bit. And sailing is great in Wind Waker; not so much in Phantom Hourglass. My worry about Spirit Tracks is that the train stuff will be even less interesting. Let's all hope it surprises.

You know what they did in the proper 2D days with connecting areas and exploration? They had a continuous overworld that you could explore on foot, what an amazing idea! Why can't we just dump this whole horse, ship, train bull**** and actually make the overworld continuous again without vast stretches of nothing intended only to make the world seem bigger and requiring some transportation and endless going in one direction? Why can't we have something interesting every 20 steps?

That is my preference as well, although I don't mind having some transportation as an added convenience. I think Dragon Quest 8 best captures my own ideals for exploration. Shadow of the Colossus is also great, if you are looking for beauty rather than game mechanic-based features scattered through the world. Although I would have liked Wind Waker's world to be more dense, it is a nice departure from the normal overworld and perfectly conveys the sense of sailing on the open sea. I don't want every game to be like that, but I really appreciate that one great game did it so well.

[yoshi1001]

I must admit, I'm kinda disappointed-all this talk about difficulty and not a peep about Mystery Dungeon from James (playing through Explorers of Sky as I write this), and the word "retire(d)" was used several times without a mention of a certain NFL quarterback. Are you guys slacking off?

Seriously, however, I was hoping you would delve more into the area of fake difficulty, rubber band AI, and outright cheating by computer characters (Mario Kart, anyone?).

On the topic of the game adjusting to your skill level: In PictoBits, if you start doing very well in a level, the game actually does send different, more complicated blocks your way, providing more challenge, but also often allowing you to get a higher score or faster time.

[ShyGuy]

I'm really really looking forward to Greg 'n Lindy Action Hour next week.

[KDR_11k]

I don't think it's trolling to be concerned about your favorite series that, in your opinion, has gone off the rails a bit.

Quite ironic considering the complaint is about a train .

Anyway, the sailing may have been decent but it's no match for a continuous overworld. LA had something interesting in every map square too but it didn't have vast oceans of nothing in between. The distance may feel great the first 1-2 times but after that it's just wasting time and makes me wish for a SINZA (a ship part in X Beyond The Frontier that lets you speed time up 10x). Also having to do a song and dance to change the rough direction for your travel was also pretty annoying.

[D_Average]

Oh sweet. Billys on this one. Hopefully his new gig has somthing to do with video, he was a natural on camera!

[NWR_Lindy]

I'm really really looking forward to Greg 'n Lindy Action Hour next week.

On the agenda...

- Brett Favre: Man, Myth, or Legend?
- JaMarcus Russell: Does his talent match his girth?
- Redskins: Zorn to Win, or entering the Twilight Zorn?
- Bills: Is Fitzpatrick the Future?
- Matt Ryan: Perfect Human Being, or God Among Men?
- Colorado Football: What, They Still Have a Team?

Stay tuned!

[NWR_Neal]

I'm really really looking forward to Greg 'n Lindy Action Hour next week.

On the agenda...

- Brett Favre: Man, Myth, or Legend?
- JaMarcus Russell: Does his talent match his girth?
- Redskins: Zorn to Win, or entering the Twilight Zorn?
- Bills: Is Fitzpatrick the Future?
- Matt Ryan: Perfect Human Being, or God Among Men?
- Colorado Football: What, They Still Have a Team?

Stay tuned!

I would most definitely listen to that.

[D_Average]

Wow.  TOTALLY forgot about the star levels in Mario World.  I gotta unlock those suckers.

Great show again, as always.

[Crimm]

Episode 168: JaMarcus Watch

[noname2200]

I liked the talk about difficulty in games. I don't think it's disputable that games in general have gotten easier over time, especially in comparison to the brutal NES days. I much prefer the modern games, with their broader scales of difficulty. If I like a game enough to replay it, I usually start on the normal difficulty, and then give it another go on the hardest difficulty: this not only lets me have an excuse to replay a game, but I also get to have that feeling of challenge too.

I was a bit surprised by the sheer hostility that your guest had to the Super Guide. It seems unwarranted. Does he feel the same about games, like Bethesda's, that let you adjust the game's difficulty at any time? Does he hate Layton's clue system, or that of the Prime games? It seems to me that there's little difference between those accepted features and the Super Guide; the latter simply strips away the pretense.

I was disappointed though that no one brought up how the superior processing power of the HD systems in particular are rarely being utilized to beef up the AI. Or did I just miss that part? It's true that some games have better (not necessarily "harder") difficulty due to improvements in AI, but it saddens me that the leap in, say FPS AI since Goldeneye has been a mere hop compared to the Olympic-class triple-jump made in graphics. I wish more developers took a cue from Civilization IV, and focused on making the game more fun by making a better AI system.

I'm really really looking forward to Greg 'n Lindy Action Hour next week.

On the agenda...

- JaMarcus Russell: Does his talent match his girth?


Stay tuned!

That may be physically impossible.

Anyhow, great show as always, and keep up the good work!

[vudu]

First, I got to give props to Jonny for his comment about conquering Faulkner.  I caused me to actually laugh out loud, after which I received some strange looks from those around me.  I've rage quit The Sound and the Fury twice in the past couple years because I can't understand what the hell is going on.

Second, I'd like to add an anecdote to your discussion about difficulty in gaming.  I started playing Shining Force II last week for the upcoming RetroActive discussion.  When I began the game I was presented with 4 difficulty options--normal, hard, super and ouch.  I have quite a bit of experience with strategy games, but since I had never played a Shining Force game before and because I wanted to progress at a brisk pace so I could at least get a good ways into it before the game was discussed I chose the normal difficulty.

I'm starting to think this was a mistake.  The game is simply too easy for me.  I'm finding that even though I don't plan my battles carefully I can still win quite easily.  The lack of challenge has changed the way I typically play strategy games.  I generally plan every move carefully but since I don't really need to worry about losing--and to a lesser degree because the game limits how much you can apply strategy to the battles, as I mentioned in the RetroActive thread--I've been rather reckless in my tactics.  However, since I'm already several hours into the game I don't want to start over just so I can play at a different difficulty level.

It's almost the opposite of the problem of Contra 4--if the difficulty settings were labeled easy, normal, hard and super/ouch I would have gone with a more challenging difficulty setting that probably would have suited me better.  How am I supposed to know what difficulty setting to play at when I haven't played the game yet?!  I've had this problem in the past where it's not clear what setting I should choose.  Game A's normal more might be pitifully easy for me but Game B's hard mode is like banging my head against the wall.  Unless I scope out the game's message board at GameFAQs it's a crap-shoot if I'll pick the right difficulty level.  For this reason I'm a big fan of when a game lets you change the difficulty on the fly.

Also, shame on you for failing to mention the difficulty settings in GoldenEye and Perfect Dark.  I always thought it was brilliant that the higher difficulty levels gave you more tasks to complete in each level.