Author Topic: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread  (Read 42143 times)

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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #75 on: August 15, 2009, 09:16:26 PM »
I love Super Mario Sunshine, but I still stand by Super Mario Galaxy as the best Mario game (at least the best 3D).

I still remember getting my SNES and playing Super Mario World for the first time. I had never seen a game look that good before. It was so bright and colorful, and I loved the music. I owned the SNES original, I bought the GBA re-make, and I bought the VC version. I am not ashamed to admit that I will probably buy it again in the future if/when Nintendo re-releases it again. The game is that damn good. Without getting into the stages, I loved the Forrest of Illusion. It was fun playing the levels over and over and seeing the trees disappear and be replaced by paths. I was also happy that Nintendo let you re-play any non-castle stage anytime you want. I know I am not the only one that loved the Top Secret Area. It was great being happy to make sure you were Caped Mario and had a spare Cape before every stage.
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #76 on: August 15, 2009, 09:20:15 PM »
This game is true Nintendo greatness. While it's obviously not as challenging as the first time played, it's still a fantastic platforming excursion with tons of smooth, fast paced hopping, bopping and flying to be had just by holding down the Y button through any given level.

It's got some amusing level names and unforgettable music; loveable enemies such as the flying koopa, volcano (??), charging football guy, and a sunglass-wearing mole (some of which as GoldenPhoenix noted, sadly haven't been seen since) and some of the best Nintendo characters ever: Yoshi and the ghosts.

The difficulty doesn't really pick up until right at Vanilla Lake: a cramped cave level with lots of shells flying around, a ghost house with green death balls (??), a level with lots of bouncy springboards and bullet bills flying in all directions, a ride on some skulls over an ocean of lava, and later on the moving platform stage with all the floating face-guys (??) (that later became Booster in SMRPG) and the saws. I've noticed the level time limit is pretty short.

Lots of ?? in this game because of a robust degree of wackiness.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #77 on: August 15, 2009, 09:37:52 PM »
I don't see much point in ranking Mario games. They're all great and all different, so I find it more interesting (and open-ended) to look at and celebrate their differences.

Celebrate Diversity FTW  ;D

In the Mario Universe, everybody is a winner!

Nice to hear some other voices stick up for Sunshine. It was a good game.

I am the biggest Sunshine fine here probably. Love that game.
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Offline Flames_of_chaos

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #78 on: August 15, 2009, 09:43:54 PM »
I still have the picture of me when I was 4 years old and proudly holding up the SNES bundle that had the system 2 controllers and Super Mario World. It's one of my most treasured games ever. Even though I was a little kid I completed the whole game even the awesome special worlds.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #79 on: August 15, 2009, 09:45:55 PM »
Sunshine still had a great deal of polish despite being rushed (I heard it's development time was about a year, split between two teams and so forth). It's too bad the GCN's dwindling sales forced Nintendo to do drastic things.

With the Wii, minus Zelda: Twilight Sell-Out, I've seen galaxy-size (pun) creativity from Nintendo's EAD studios with the Wii. Something which third parties are more or less NOT doing.

NSMBWii might even be greater then SMW... or not. It would still be good. NSMB DS was good, just a tad easy. So was Super Princess Peach.

Nintendo can make platformers work.
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Offline Pandareus

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2009, 09:56:07 PM »
I thought this RetroActive would be a great excuse to finally work on having a file with all 96 exits on the VC. Naturally, no matter how meticulously I worked my way through each exit, I'm missing one and I have no idea which one I could possibly have overlooked.

Anyway, great game. And ridiculously challenging, when you reach the Special levels. You just don't get games in which you can die within 5 seconds of entering a level, anymore.

Some great enemies. Wriggler is probably the best enemy to originate from SMW. One thing, though: had the game come out after Jurassic Park, my young self would probably have felt pretty underwhelmed by Mario's trip to Dinosaur Land. Where are the T-rexes?The diplodocuses (doplidoci?)? Etc. Very few enemies are actually dinosaur-themed. There's Rex. There's that fire-breathing thingy on Chocolate Island... I think that's it.

And of course Yoshi looks nothing like a dinosaur. When I first saw what he turned into in the Super Mario Bros. Movie (someone had to bring that abomination up), I refused to believe it was him. It looked nothing like the cute green thing I knew from SMW.

Super Mario 64 is better, by a large magnitude at that. Galaxy was ok, but by no means all that great.

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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #81 on: August 16, 2009, 12:35:45 AM »
Panareus, did you get that one exit on Chocolate Island that does nothing but loop back to itself? There is one level that if you beat it in a certain way, you get a path that has Mario walk in a circle right back to the same level. It's basically a waste, but I think it counts as an exit.
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Offline King of Twitch

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #82 on: August 16, 2009, 12:36:36 AM »
Arg. The Forest of Illusion castle is tough. You'd think all those mushrooms floating around the FoI are signs of Nintendo being intentionally dense and stingy the way they are with hardware limitations and online options in real life, but you're going to want to backtrack for a mushroom there. They knew that having an extra feather would be useless for Roy's Castle since you would end up accidentally flying into the spikes.

With that said, they go totally overboard in the next level... giving you a screen full of mushrooms for no discernible reason  ???

Panareus, did you get that one exit on Chocolate Island that does nothing but loop back to itself? There is one level that if you beat it in a certain way, you get a path that has Mario walk in a circle right back to the same level. It's basically a waste, but I think it counts as an exit.

I'm at that one right now: Choco Island 3. The end of the level has two goalposts, one of which is 'underneath' the higher one that you need to fly over to.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 12:43:17 AM by Zap »
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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #83 on: August 16, 2009, 02:47:23 AM »
You might want to look into the Forest Ghost House, which has a secondary exit that double-backs on a road (a la the Star Road levels). I think that was the one that evaded me forever as a kid, because Ghost Houses don't disclose that they have two exits.
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2009, 05:44:41 AM »
Yoshi is actually supposed to be a Dragon. That's why the Yoshi coins are called 'Dragon Coins'. They changed it when it came to the West, though. Probably because market surveys showed kids liked Dinosaurs over Dragons here.
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Offline anand

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2009, 06:29:38 PM »
I love Sunshine. It gets a lot of things wrong, but moving around in that game is such a joy that it was easily the best platformer of last gen for me. I love games with redundant move sets that allow for free, creative expression on the part of the gamer.

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Offline TheYoungerPlumber

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #86 on: August 16, 2009, 08:49:01 PM »
Just a friendly reminder that this thread is about Super Mario World. TEST!
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Offline TJ Spyke

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #87 on: August 16, 2009, 09:10:24 PM »
I miss the Chargin' Chucks, I wish Nintendo would bring them back for a future Mario game. To an earlier poster, I agree that Wigglers were one of the best enemies introduced in the game. The first time they turned red was cool.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2009, 10:18:39 PM »
I miss the Chargin' Chucks, I wish Nintendo would bring them back for a future Mario game. To an earlier poster, I agree that Wigglers were one of the best enemies introduced in the game. The first time they turned red was cool.

Wigglers were great. I loved them when you made them angry.
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Offline adadad

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2009, 09:14:45 AM »
I think TYP was probably referring to me on the podcast when he said that racing through the game is not the way to play it and that perhaps this game wasn't for me. Certainly my feelings were confirmed last night when I started playing the Lost Levels and absolutely loved the simplicity and challenge of it. The screen never scrolls up or down so there's never any ambiguity about what the player could be missing above or below (the exception being vines that take you up, but these bonus segments are wholly unavailable without the necessary block breakage down below!). There are far more possibilities in SMW, with far greater variance in how high and far Mario can jump and other additional abilities. This added depth doesn't appeal to me.

Now as many people have pointed out, broadly speaking you have the more linear driven games - SMB1-3, and Galaxy, which retreads this route a lot too - and the not so linear, e.g. SMW, SM64, Sunshine - but a key distinguishing factor between members of the same group is of course, an extra dimension.

For me SMW doesn't work simply because of the limits of 2D. The unforgiving nature of exploring - not being able to see what it is below you is often a frustrating experience which has lead to many a death on my part - especially when a great number of the bonuses are high up, above the regular stage. The short supply of health and more pertinently, power-ups like the cape makes exploration an experience that requires a lot of patience. This is not to say that I don't like SMW, it is a decent game and I did play all the way through, and got most of the way into the Special Levels, which I must say, along with Star Road is an extremely enticing prospect for budding players - not just one, but two secret worlds. Regardless those special levels can be infuriatingly difficult and I still haven't beaten them all. This is pure preference, however even these levels, being far more restricted and aimed at pure platforming, aren't anywhere near as tight as I would like due to Mario's slippery footwork and physics.

Another annoyance, and this is also present in Donkey Kong Country 2, is that going back to levels you've already done to quickly grab something and then exiting out with select is such a chore. In DKC2 it was to nab coins with which to save or hop on an aeroplane between worlds, and in SMW it's to grab a cape or Yoshi, and preferably a backup item in the box too, in order to protect yourself to get past a difficult level.

Back on point, I realise now that this was a highly ambitious game at the time, moreso than I had previously given it credit for, and yet for me SM64 represents the realisation of the ambition SMW aspired to, which was to have a exploratory, more adventure-y platformer with the key principle of multiple secret 'exits', which SM64 evolved into a series of different goals, all within the same (albeit dynamic) stage. Fortunately in 3D the levels go from being something you run into blindly sideways to being literally in front of you. There's also the advent of a health bar and losing health never limits Mario's physical ability, so it's far more accessible in that sense.

Anyway I had to get this off my chest as it goes some way to explaining my lack of enjoyment from this game. Oh yeah and the music is by far and away the worst in the entire Mario series, which doesn't help proceedings either! This is a long way from a bad game though, don't get me wrong.

Offline NWR_Neal

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2009, 11:58:31 AM »
I still need to sit down and play this. I have been a busy reviewer and thus have not been able to put too much time into RetroActive since Super Ghouls N Ghosts.

I always loved this game. I never owned a SNES until five or so years ago, so most of my time with this game was over my friends' houses.

Yoshi is a game changer and really makes this game a whole different beast when compared to SMB3, which is generally my favorite in the series. There's just something about the way Yoshi mixes up the game that makes the old feel new again.

The Star Road (I think that's what it was called here) is awesome and trippy. Some of my favorite levels of Mario are encased there.

I always stock up on lives in that first Forest of Illusion level where you can get something like 10 lives in one go if I recall correctly.

I'm a huge Koopa Kids fan, and this was their last game appearance for about 10 years. I liked the little things like how Ludwig would get knocked out of his castle.

And I love the final boss. Clown Car Bowser needs to make a comeback (has he? I feel like he has recently, like in a sports game or something)

I'll probably add more after I play the game again.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2009, 01:53:31 PM »
For those of you who thought the item collecting for SMW was a bit frustrating, there is a secret area in Donut Land that has unlimited supplies of Cape Feathers, Yoshi, and Fire Flowers. Go there, and the rest of the game is cake.

Except if you don't like backtracking.
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I'm a huge Koopa Kids fan, and this was their last game appearance for about 10 years. I liked the little things like how Ludwig would get knocked out of his castle.
The castle destruction scenes were AWESOME. Intentional comedy in a 16-bit game rocked, and it rocked even more when Mario was in it.

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Offline Mop it up

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #92 on: August 18, 2009, 02:08:20 AM »
There's been way too many posts in here for me to catch up on all of this. I'm sure I couldn't say anything that's already been said anyway.

This game still has the best design for Yoshi. He looked a lot more like a dinosaur back then (I know he's technically a dragon but I think he resembles a dinosaur a lot more). When they gave him the more upright stance and more rounded body, he lost a lot of what made him adorable. Giving him a voice was also a mistake; it must be what, a whole octave above what can be heard by a human? It's way too high-pitched and squeaky, like he's trying too hard to be cute. I've always thought he should have remained a silent character, with those big black eyes I'll bet he could be really expressive without a voice.

I'm surprised there's been so much activity, I didn't expect this to be so popular. I guess you all either haven't played or discussed this game as much as I have.

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Finally somebody gets it.

And I love the final boss. Clown Car Bowser needs to make a comeback (has he? I feel like he has recently, like in a sports game or something)
That was in Paper Mario I believe.

I miss the Chargin' Chucks, I wish Nintendo would bring them back for a future Mario game.
Yeah, they were such a random inclusion but still great. I especially like how some of them throw baseballs. Why does a football player have baseballs?

Offline kraken613

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #93 on: August 18, 2009, 03:15:41 AM »
Sorry if this was brought up but in the podcast there was lots of discussion on how this game was so much different because it was so close to SMB3 and tried to go different directions. What are your thoughts on this with comparing Galaxy and what you think they will do with Galaxy 2?
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #94 on: August 18, 2009, 04:54:58 AM »
Sorry if this was brought up but in the podcast there was lots of discussion on how this game was so much different because it was so close to SMB3 and tried to go different directions. What are your thoughts on this with comparing Galaxy and what you think they will do with Galaxy 2?

Well, didn't Miyamoto say that somewhere around 90% of Galaxy 2 would be new ground? I know that's just words, but maybe there is a chance Galaxy 2 will pull a Mario World 180. Though I think that Galaxy 1 & 2 have a longer gap than SMB3 & World had going.
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Offline GoldenPhoenix

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #95 on: August 18, 2009, 04:58:51 AM »
Sorry if this was brought up but in the podcast there was lots of discussion on how this game was so much different because it was so close to SMB3 and tried to go different directions. What are your thoughts on this with comparing Galaxy and what you think they will do with Galaxy 2?

Well, didn't Miyamoto say that somewhere around 90% of Galaxy 2 would be new ground? I know that's just words, but maybe there is a chance Galaxy 2 will pull a Mario World 180. Though I think that Galaxy 1 & 2 have a longer gap than SMB3 & World had going.

The trouble with what Miyamoto said is that we really do not know what he meant by the 90% new. As I've learned, things work differently in the head of the mad genius, Shigeru Miyamoto
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Offline Stratos

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #96 on: August 18, 2009, 05:07:19 AM »
Sorry if this was brought up but in the podcast there was lots of discussion on how this game was so much different because it was so close to SMB3 and tried to go different directions. What are your thoughts on this with comparing Galaxy and what you think they will do with Galaxy 2?

Well, didn't Miyamoto say that somewhere around 90% of Galaxy 2 would be new ground? I know that's just words, but maybe there is a chance Galaxy 2 will pull a Mario World 180. Though I think that Galaxy 1 & 2 have a longer gap than SMB3 & World had going.

The trouble with what Miyamoto said is that we really do not know what he meant by the 90% new. As I've learned, things work differently in the head of the mad genius, Shigeru Miyamoto

Yeah, I know they are just words, but still, it does pique one's curiosity.
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Offline anand

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #97 on: August 18, 2009, 05:16:24 PM »
Yay, podcast name-check. Just to clarify what I meant before, I meant mainly that SMB3 has a real purity and focus on 'use your limited set of primary tools to get to the end of the varied, obstacle-filled level'. SMW is a much looser design (probably BY design). As has been said before, it was more about exploration and discovery, finding secrets. The actual platforming itself was much less rigorous, challenging, and focused (especially with core additions such as the Cape and Spin Jump, which added a bit of slop to your primary tools). As such, you could say that it was a sort of precursor to SM64 and Sunshine's more Adventure-y design.

I contradicted myself when I spoke about Sunshine, since I enjoyed the numerous redundant methods of movement in that game. I guess the difference is the context. I never saw Sunshine as a game about 'getting to the end of the level' a la SMB3 and Galaxy. I saw it more as 'have fun screwing around in a large, virtual playground', even moreso than SM64. I mean, there are so many advanced mobility techniques in that game (like slipping and sliding, spinning around a tightrope with the jetpack, wall jumping into a spin jump into a hover), and so few places where those techniques are actually REQUIRED. That's the thing about the Spin Jump. Nintendo put it in, to the point of assigning it its own button, but they didn't weave it into the strategy of the levels too much (sort of like the Wall Jump in NSMB).

Didn't someone actually make a 2D Sunshine homage? I can't remember where I played it...

The extent to which Mario nostalgia inspires people is pretty crazy, though, from the countless clones to the Flipbook animations to the SMW level creator that people use for those crazy, auto-playing SMW levels on Youtube.

Have those been brought up in this thread yet? They seem to be based on the SMW engine.

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #98 on: August 18, 2009, 09:11:49 PM »
That's the thing about the Spin Jump. Nintendo put it in, to the point of assigning it its own button, but they didn't weave it into the strategy of the levels too much (sort of like the Wall Jump in NSMB).
I think the spin-jump should have been a power-up. It would have made things more interesting with the levels that have secrets which require the spin jump because you'd have to try and keep it throughout the level.

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Re: Super Mario World - RFN RetroActive Discussion Thread
« Reply #99 on: August 18, 2009, 09:24:13 PM »
For those of you who thought the item collecting for SMW was a bit frustrating, there is a secret area in Donut Land that has unlimited supplies of Cape Feathers, Yoshi, and Fire Flowers. Go there, and the rest of the game is cake.

My sister used to farm that level for extra guys all the time.  It was so annoying.