Topic: Microsoft's Xbox Kinect - Nov 4th 2010

[Spak-Spang]

Well, I actually see what Microsoft's plans are IF they are smart and looking towards the future. 

Project Natal must be viewed as an add on device like all other add on devices...which given that track record would hint that complete failure.  However, if the idea is to introduce new types of gaming and hopefully take some thunder and hype away from the Wii it may be a good Trojan horse leading into the next generation. 

Why?

Because the next generation Microsoft can make Natal compatible with the new console and have motion control ready to go without increasing the cost of the console too much, and keeping the core Xbox 3, a gamers console.  By that time Natal may be cheaper to produce allowing for a bundled system with the console, or a cheaper one for those who already made the investment.

Will this concept work?  Maybe...though truthfully I have my doubts, because if initial reaction to Project Natal is poor for any reasons, then seeing it apart of the new console will be detrimental.  However, the reverse is not true...seeing Project Natal as being compatible just seems like something that should be done. 

Just like I expect the Wii accessories to be compatible with Wii 2, even though I expect a new (better) motion controller to be released with the system.  I expect the classic controllers, Wii Balanced Board, and such to still work.

[Chozo Ghost]

Microsoft has been making operating systems for 30 some years, and they've yet to get them refined and stable. If they can't make a stable OS in 30+ years, then how in the world can they ever refine NATAL before the next generation?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

If they get something right the first time, they can't sell new revisions down the road.  Nintendo learned from the best.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It's similar to medicine.

You don't want to cure the disease because there no money in a cure.
You want sell a treatment, because then you have a customer for life.

[Stogi]

This is going to be greatest/funniest e3 of all time.

Where's Rabicle when you need him?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I'll have to summon him.

[Spak-Spang]

To be far.  The Xbox division is completely different from the Windows division...and the Xbox 360 was one of the most complete console experiences conceived.  It was very well polished except for the red ring of death.  Which, should have been avoided.  Still, the overall experience of the console was brilliant. 

Xbox doesn't really need to do much but refine the experience and upgrade the technology for the next generation and gamers will be happy. 

[BlackNMild2k1]

EDGE Online: Natal To Cost $149
Looks like preNatal is more Still-born

Natal will launch in the US this October with a price tag of  $149.
 
 That’s according to a trusted source, who told us that the motion sensing camera will also be bundled with the Xbox 360 Arcade console for $299.
 
 We were informed that prices outside of the US would be determined based  on a number of factors, including exchange rates. Based on current  rates, the standalone unit would retail for ÂŁ103 / €121, and the console  and Natal bundle for ÂŁ207 / €243.
 
 The figure for the standalone unit is significantly higher than a  previous sub-ÂŁ50 estimate, but less than pricing recently suggested by  European retailers. It’s also more expensive than Sony’s Natal rival  Move, which will be available later this year with a game for less than  $100.
 
 Our source said that the device has been pencilled in for an October  26 worldwide launch, although we were advised that the date could yet  shift by a few weeks either way.
 
 We were also told Microsoft’s camera definitely won’t be called Natal  and that its proper title will be revealed at E3 next month. It will  also be heavily targeted at causal players and families.
 
 â€śMicrosoft expects to sell millions and millions of Natal units in its  first year on the market so you can expect the software launch line-up  to target non-traditional gamers,” our source said. “A major marketing  campaign will also play a key role in attracting and educating the  expanded audience about Xbox 360’s controller-free revolution.”
 
 When contacted about this report, Microsoft told us that it "does not  comment on rumour or speculation”.

[ShyGuy]

This will be the biggest peripheral flop since Tony Hawk ride. The only thing that can save it is a killer app on the level of Wii Fit.

[TJ Spyke]

I'm wary of anonymous sources and anything they say.

If the rumor is true, then $150 will kill it. The only way I could see this having a chance at succeeding is if it was $100 or less. If they really do make it $150, they better include a game with it (a real game, not just a tech demo. I DO want them to include the demos from E3 2009 too though).

[nickmitch]

Natal Sports Resort?

[Chozo Ghost]

Is this compatible with the HD-DVD addon?

[Ian Sane]

I don't get why they would specifically target this at casuals and families.  If you want that the Wii is RIGHT THERE.  It's cheaper and already has a selection of proven casual titles in the Wii series.  The Xbox 360's niche is that it isn't a casual focused console.  It's the ideal choice for the hardcore gamer.  Anyone who wants a Wii, has a Wii.  The Xbox 360 and the PS3 are for gamers that want something more than what Nintendo offers.

One of the big criticisms against motion control is that it is only used as a stupid gimmick for casual focused titles.  It has yet to really been proven as something worthwhile for core games.  I would guess that there is a market for that.  The Conduit had all sorts of hype entirely because it was an FPS that used the remote, and it's a total nothing title.  The demand is there and Nintendo isn't meeting it so there's the niche.  But instead they're just going for the same market the Wii already has locked down.  And no one but hardcore gamers will want to pay for an X360 and Natal.  The price is too high for casuals and if they aim at casuals hardcore gamers will want nothing to do with it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

You're a total nothing gamer.

I guess with all the high speed mobile internet plans they have these days, you can continue living under your rock.

[vudu]

Ian, stop trolling the Wii.  Pro, stop trolling everybody.

[Ian Sane]

Ian, stop trolling the Wii.

I thought I was crapping on Microsoft.  Am I wrong in that there is a niche for motion controlled games that Nintendo is not taking advantage of?  The demand for an FPS that uses motion control is there.  We saw it when Conduit got hyped to ****.  But the demand has not been met.  The Wii doesn't have that FPS killer app.  Like it or not when people think of the Wii and think of motion control they think of Wii Sports.
 
The Xbox 360 is crawling with FPS games.  It's crawling with developers that have proven themselves to be talented at making FPS games.  Here is a niche that Nintendo has missed the boat on.  Here is Microsoft's chance to meet that niche and take motion control beyond stuff like Wii Sports... and their decision is to focus on casuals and families.  Nintendo found success with the Wii by going after a market the other guys were not targetting.  Now MS and Sony are introducing their own motion control but they're just focusing on the SAME GROUP that Nintendo is focusing on.  It's the exact opposite of Nintendo's strategy with the Wii.  They have the chance to do something else with the concept but instead they're just doing "me too" copycat stuff... for MORE money.  Natal is going to be DOA.

[KDR_11k]

Honestly I don't think Natal will fill the motion FPS niche either because FPSes require buttons (guns have buttons, after all). I could see Sony's Move do that but not Natal. Maybe there'll be some gimmicky nonsense stuffed into existing FPSes but Natal requires such a specialized design since it's controller-less that I don't expect many games to take full advantage of it.

[vudu]

One of the big criticisms against motion control is that it is only used as a stupid gimmick for casual focused titles.  It has yet to really been proven as something worthwhile for core games.

That seems to be aimed at Nintendo.

[broodwars]

One of the big criticisms against motion control is that it is only used as a stupid gimmick for casual focused titles.  It has yet to really been proven as something worthwhile for core games.

That seems to be aimed at Nintendo.

Considering both Sony with the Move and Microsoft with the NATAL have so far focused primarily on hyping their motion controllers in the context of casual games whenever they've been publicly presented, I don't think you can infer that as exclusively taking a shot at Nintendo.  There's been very little public focus on motion controls in more core-centric titles so far, though we'll probably see that at E3.
 
As for Natal's rumored price point, I already wasn't going to buy the thing (considering Microsoft hasn't announced any big titles that will use it that interest me) and at 3/4 of the cost of the system itself there's not a chance in hell of me changing my mind.  I'm already hesitant to purchase the system given its high failure rate, so I'm not going to splurge even more on Natal when it's that expensive and I'm already satisfied with the 360 controller as it is.

[vudu]

Considering at this point the Wii is the only motion-controlled system available I think it's pretty safe to infer that as taking a shot at Nintendo.

[Ian Sane]

  Considering at this point the Wii is the only motion-controlled system available I think it's pretty safe to infer that as taking a shot at Nintendo. 

When people think of motion control they think of titles like Wii Sports and Wii Fit.  Games like Super Mario Galaxy may have motion control in it but it isn't the sort of game the immediately jumps to mind when you hear "motion control".  I think it's more or less a fact that the Wii has a very casual-focused image.  You can argue whether or not that's deserving but I think the image clearly exists.  That's how most of the videogame industry sees it.  Third parties are pretty damn obvious about it.  And Sony and MS are continuing with that idea - they have emphasized casual gaming in regards to Move and Natal.
 
Motion control is associated with casual gaming.  I think this is a fact.  And I think Sony and MS are being complete idiots by maintaining that status quo.

[Chozo Ghost]

Isn't the 360 arcade model actually cheaper than the Wii? Or at least the same price? Someone could just get that and then add Natal to it, I suppose.

[Kytim89]

So, the Natal will be priced at $150, eh? Well if you ask me, the Natal is overpriced $149 too much.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Isn't the 360 arcade model actually cheaper than the Wii? Or at least the same price? Someone could just get that and then add Natal to it, I suppose.

From the rumor:

Natal will launch in the US this October with a price tag of    $149.
 
 That’s according to a trusted source, who told   us that the motion sensing camera will also be bundled with the Xbox 360 Arcade console for $299.

So you'd be saving $50 by buying the bundle, but you'd still be paying $100 more than a Wii (which comes with 2 games....<1.5 games since some activities overlap>)

[Spak-Spang]

Wow, I watched the Natal demos...yeah I know it is old...and I am shocked about how completely gimmicky the whole controller and product is.  The Wii looked Gimmick, but you could see how it could be used to immediately make games better.  I don't see this technology making games better but worse.  It is innovative but not in the good way.