Topic: Microsoft's Xbox Kinect - Nov 4th 2010

[EasyCure]

thanks for shooting down my post because i decided to take the high ground and NOT go down THAT road.. I'll be more crude from now on.

[Stogi]

Gender recognition is going to be real self-esteem squasher if it guesses your gender wrong.   This morning on the way to work some "it" walked across the road.  You know the type - overweight, clean shaven, youthful face, unisex haircut, clad in athletic shoes, sweatpants and a baggy t-shirt.  I wonder what Natal would guess for that person since I, a fellow human being, was stumped.

it'll ask you to tilt your head back to scan for an adams apple

That doesn't mean anything, because contrary to belief women also have that and if you're overweight it probably isn't visible regardless.

The only GUARANTEED way to make a gender authentication is to look between the legs. But even then,  sometimes its not so clear cut...

This post was unneeded.

[Shorty McNostril]

I can see nothing but disaster in Natal's future.

[nickmitch]

This gender thing reminds me of the time WiiFit called little girls fat.

[KDR_11k]

Gender recognition is going to be real self-esteem squasher if it guesses your gender wrong.   This morning on the way to work some "it" walked across the road.  You know the type - overweight, clean shaven, youthful face, unisex haircut, clad in athletic shoes, sweatpants and a baggy t-shirt.  I wonder what Natal would guess for that person since I, a fellow human being, was stumped.

it'll ask you to tilt your head back to scan for an adams apple

That won't work with Ann Coulter.

[mac<censored>]

so i suppose in the end, it's gonna have to be "Please strip, spread your legs, and jump around a lot; be sure to squarely face the camera in your Natal® unit."

[BlackNMild2k1]

"Turn around, bend over and spread your cheeks"

[mac<censored>]

"Turn around, bend over and spread your cheeks"

Hmm, that procedure also has the advantage that Microsoft customers are all very used to doing it...

[BlackNMild2k1]

Natal impressions from someone that has played it.

http://www.jamesgunn.com/2010/04/15/quick-impression-on-microsofts-natal/

But what Dave and I really wanted to do was play the Natal. Yes, it’s true – I had a bad experience working for XBox a year ago. However, I still think it’s the best gaming platform out there and was excited about what I heard about the Natal.  For those of you who don’t know, the Natal works like this: You stand in front of the camera eye and it senses you’re there. An avatar appears on screen, and it moves exactly as you do.  There is no controller you need to hold like in the Wii.  It senses all of your movements right down to your hands and feet.  First I played a game kicking and whacking balls into targets.  You have to use your entire body to play.  I absolutely loved it.  Being a gamer since I was a kid, I was really struck by the amount of physical exertion it took.  It’s amazing exercise and, because of that, I think it’s going to be a much better device for people’s health in general.  As hyperbolic as it may sound, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years we see a decrease in childhood obesity simply because of the system.  For that alone, I think it’s the biggest step forward in gaming in a long, long time.  But, despite that, the game was fun as hell.

Then Dave took his turn at the ball-whacking game.  I realized one of the benefits of the Natal is that your friends look ridiculous while playing it.

Then Dave and I played River Rush together.  It’s a game where you stand side by side in a river raft, so it’s two people playing at once.  To move right, you have to step right; to move left, you have to step left.  As you rush down right rapids, you have to jump up and slap floating stars in the air – the whole raft jumps up every time you do.  This game was even more exhilarating than the kicking one, and even more aerobically challenging.  In fact, I’d say the ONLY drawback to the Natal some people may have is that you have to get up off your ass to play it. But, for me, a person who likes exercise and gaming, it’s sort of a dream come true. An hour of playing Natal every night will definitely burn calories.

Dave’s avatar was a girl during River Rush, probably because Dave feels like a little princess inside, and I suddenly realized how awesome it would be for my avatar to molest Dave’s.  As my avatar rubbed its crotch against Dave’s avatar’s ass the Microsoft folks started laughing and said that was the first time they had seen anyone do that.  I was extremely proud of myself.  I’m sure millions of little assholes will follow in the wake of my avatar-raping, but I want it to be noted in my Wikipedia page that I was the very first.

Remmeber the lawsuit about the girl that felt harassed in Home by the avatar humping? Bring on the lawsuits..... especially since the person raping you(and your avatar) is gonna be in your living room with you!!! Better watch your back.

[BlackNMild2k1]

"SIDE-KICK FOUNDED TO CREATE MOTION CONTROLED GAMES FOR NEXT-GENERATION GAME CONSOLES AND DIGITAL LIVINGROOMS"
by an ex(?)-EIDOS & Primesense (people behind the Natal camera tech) employees so you know what they are actually making games for.

Here is their first game: Mini-Demons
http://www.sidekick.co.il/games/  <--Pic @ the Link

Mini Demons is a game where you play the ball in a cartoonish   pinball-like environment.  In Mini Demon you play the role of a shape shifting Demon locked   inside a colorful and crazy world build of spheres. Each sphere is   unique and marvelous 3D environments build with pinball-like mechanics.
  Your goal is to pick up energy balls that float in the world by   switching between a ball shape (Jump, roll) a star shape (Sky dive) and   Demon (walk).
Your mission is to get to the core sphere and lock the riddle of the   world you are in a world filled with paddles, ramps, wind tubes and   other fun obstacles .
  The game is totally immersive as your movements in front of the monitor   are controlling the Demon as it flies, jumps and rolls toward the core   of its world.

[D_Average]

This actually looks pretty fun.  Simple yet exhilarating.  Assuming the controls work.  Ya heard?
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/18/natal-game-river-rush-revealed-by-film-writer-james-gunn/

[Ian Sane]

Those Natal impressions remind me of early Wii impressions where the "gee whiz" factor is so high that the person doesn't think about what it would be like to play a full-lengthed game like this.  Or what it would be like to make sure you always had enough free space in your living room just to play videogames.

Good for Natal for being responsive, I suppose.  But it sounds just as hollow and gimmicky as all motion control thus far.  So Natal is good at shallow party games.  So what?  How is that any different than what Nintendo already did with Wii Sports?  How does this improve games with actual depth and complexity and length?  That's what I need to see.

[BlackNMild2k1]

New Natal video showing the over involved menu interaction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KTmssVLHxw

seriously, I'll take a couch and a wiimote any day of the week over 360degree full extension arm maneuvering to activate buttons on the screen.

[Spak-Spang]

I don't know if it has been mentioned.

I read a rumor that Metal Gear Solid is being worked for Project Natal....and the question I have is how?  Those games used every single button combination possible, and was complicated as all get out with a control.  How do you even attempt to make the game with Project Natal? 

There must be some sort of small controller that goes with the system....it is something that just hasn't been announced yet.

[TJ Spyke]

Actually, it seems like MGS would be really simple to use with Natal (at least if it is like the original MGS, which is the only one i've played).

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't know if it has been mentioned.

I read a rumor that Metal Gear Solid is being worked for Project Natal....and the question I have is how?  Those games used every single button combination possible, and was complicated as all get out with a control.  How do you even attempt to make the game with Project Natal? 

There must be some sort of small controller that goes with the system....it is something that just hasn't been announced yet.

I swear I posted that rumor here a day or so ago. It was supposedly from Surfergirl saying that..... hold on. I think I know where I posted it.

edit: found it
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30877.msg604055#msg604055

anyway, you can use Natal and the 360 controller at the same time. It might just use hand gestures for grabbing an enemy from behind or throwing grenades and voice controls for radio or some other unnatural replacement for pushing a button.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Rare's George Andreas to Present Develop 2010 Design Keynote on   Project Natal Title
  Rare set to reveal secrets of its first Natal game.
 
  US, April 29, 2010 - In his presentation – The Future IS Controller-Free   Games and Entertainment – Andreas will talk candidly about how Rare has   created one of the premier launch titles for 'Project Natal' and the   challenges faced regarding the new design philosophy at the studio. He   warns: "Everything you've learnt over the last 25 years – throw it   away!"
 
  He will also take a brief look at Rare's last foray into the physical   play space from yesteryear, and outline Rare's vision for the future of   physical based gaming.
 
  To register for Develop in Brighton, please visit www.developconference.com
 
  Please follow us on www.twitter.com/developconf2010 and join us at http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=316206247580

[BlackNMild2k1]

Some impressions that just verify to me why (based on teh same demo they've been showing since reveal) Natal will not catch on.

http://laist.com/2010/04/30/project_natal_first_drunken_impress.php

I don't see people playing this (same game at least) for more than 5 minutes and then packing it away.

MS & Rare really better bring something sweet to the table with this because this is just a bunch of people looking like fools dancing in front of camera.

[nickmitch]

Using a 360 controller with Natal defeats the whole purpose. With both my hands occupied, what am I supposed to do? Kick with my feet? Nod my head? At that point, you're just adding buttons.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Using a 360 controller with Natal defeats the whole purpose. With both my hands occupied, what am I supposed to do? Kick with my feet? Nod my head? At that point, you're just adding buttons.

I agree, but it doesn't make it any less true.
There will be Natal games that use the controller then use voice controls, hand gestures and many other awkward movements to somehow be able to claim Natal support.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Might as well play soccer with handcuffs on.

[Chozo Ghost]

Couldn't they just have you set the controller down for parts of the game that would require NATAL? I remember in No More Heroes there were minigames that required the controller to be turned on its side, so at that point you had to let go of the nunchuck. It wasn't like they required you to hold onto something you weren't using at that particular moment.

[Spak-Spang]

Chozo Ghost, they could.  But Natal is supposed to eliminate the controller...to make it feel more natural, not like you are playing a game where you must pickup, put down controls, that misses the point.

The Wii is different. Nintendo, never attempted to eliminate the control or even the notion of using a control...but modified the concept of a controller to use motion as an input device.  In fact it seems Wii actually has made the controller more apparent in its games and philosophy.  You must know what games use what controller and how you want to play it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Natal is supposed to eliminate the living room, and without one there'd be no place to set down your controller.

[Ian Sane]

Everyone saw the holodeck in Star Trek and thought it was the coolest thing in the world.  The problem is the technological leap between sitting on the couch with a controller in your hand and being IN THE GAME is huge.  To get to the holodeck there has to be all sorts of half-baked **** in between.  Natal sounds like it will be a prime example of that.

I think the closer we get to a theoretical holodeck the WORSE things will be.  We'll get further away from the reliable old method but not close enough yet to the holodeck where things will be really smooth.  There will be this long middle part of the journey that will outright SUCK.  The Wii's motion control has its share of problems where the damn remote misinterprets what you wanted to do or the "motion control" is so blantantly a digital button press mapped to a gesture that it kills the illusion for anyone that notices it.  But we're still very close to the old method.  By ditching the controller Natal is going further into the wasteland of controller suckiness.

The question is will videogames make it through the wastleland of controller suckiness?  Will people accept Natal as a flawed step on the way to the holodeck or will we just not be willing to go through the in-between phase?

You could consider the Virtual Boy as an example of a step towards the holodeck that failed.