Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[broodwars]

I just finished the completely pointless series of fetch quests that finally unlocked the 4th dungeon, which I am now in.  Really, Nintendo?  These games are long enough on their own without putting in time-padding fetch quests back to former dungeons where nothing new is introduced.  Being someone's errand boy for the sake of being someone's errand boy is never fun.  Is it not enough that I wear the outfit, that I wield the sword, that I can swim despite apparently that requiring magic items in this universe?  No, I still have to prove myself to agents of the Goddess by performing an errand the game designers could have easily just had you skip.

Seriously, in terms of the Zelda lore I'm starting to side with Gannondorf (from Twilight Princess) on this: I think the Goddess(es) every couple of millennium get bored and decide to toy with the lives of their followers.  So they allow a great evil to be unleashed for the sheer purpose of manipulating their sheep to close it up again.

BTW, has anyone managed to catch a bird yet?  A bird's feathers are the only crafting ingredient I'm missing, but they always fly away before I can catch them in my net.

[Ceric]

I'm as annoyed as anything because the game keeps artificially limiting me.  I need something to take big things to the sky.  I have that something and someone wants me to find an object for them.  I have found it.  I've known where its been for half the game.  Why won't it let me bring it up?  Now I need to find the Windmill I go to Faron wood like I'm suppose to and there is no dowsing eating what-so-ever.  I pop to points in all the areas still naught-a Just going to use the stone on all of these.  These is a good game with way to much artificial limiting.

[broodwars]

I'm as annoyed as anything because the game keeps artificially limiting me.  I need something to take big things to the sky.  I have that something and someone wants me to find an object for them.  I have found it.  I've known where its been for half the game.  Why won't it let me bring it up?  Now I need to find the Windmill I go to Faron wood like I'm suppose to and there is no dowsing eating what-so-ever.  I pop to points in all the areas still naught-a Just going to use the stone on all of these.  These is a good game with way to much artificial limiting.

The Windmill piece is in the Volcanic area, to the left and down from the temple entrance.  That's right!  It's in a completely different area than the game hints you with the camera.  And how lazy are these townsfolk that they can't just craft a new piece for that windmill?

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

BTW, has anyone managed to catch a bird yet?  A bird's feathers are the only crafting ingredient I'm missing, but they always fly away before I can catch them in my net.

The trick is to get close enough to the bird to lock on, then move very slowly towards it - as in, very slightly pushing on the control stick. When the net's shadow is under the bird, swing down quickly, and you should have your bird.

[broodwars]

BTW, has anyone managed to catch a bird yet?  A bird's feathers are the only crafting ingredient I'm missing, but they always fly away before I can catch them in my net.

The trick is to get close enough to the bird to lock on, then move very slowly towards it - as in, very slightly pushing on the control stick. When the net's shadow is under the bird, swing down quickly, and you should have your bird.

Figures.  I plan on using those bird feathers to upgrade my new (more traditional-looking) shield, so that'll come in handy.  I already upgraded my slingshot to the scattershot, though only for completion's sake since I almost never use the slingshot now that I have the upgraded, speedy carrier beetle.  I'll probably use it even less once I finally get the Bow.

Incidentally, outside of using them to upgrade your potions, is there any reason to collect the bugs? I know there's a guy at night in the academy who will buy them off you, but I don't see any sign that there's a quest yet that gives you a heart piece or gratitude crystals for it.  Otherwise, I'd rather ignore them.  I had enough bug collecting with Agatha in Twilight Princess.

[broodwars]

Ok, that 4th dungeon was pretty cool, a nice mixture of a Zelda water dungeon (surprisingly, one that does not suck) and something like the Spirit or Shadow temples from Ocarina of time, with a distinctive Chinese influence and more than a hint of darkness.  The boss was very cool and memorable (I especially love how you have to take down its final form), and it was easily the most difficult boss I've run across since the first one.  My only real problem with that dungeon is that swimming in this game sucks because the Wii remote steering doesn't let you make sharp turns, and you do a lot of swimming in that dungeon.  Still, cool dungeon and some interesting developments once you reach the first sacred flame...

EDIT: I barely managed to complete the second Silent Realm trial on my first run.  I missed a tear up on top of the main tower, and the timer ran out as I was scaling up it.  I managed to snag the last tear just as one of the guardians was about to hit me.  Wow, that was intense, but I did see that you have a fair amount of leeway with the guardians.  You can outrun them, so long as you have enough stamina and you know where you're going.  And it's about time I got this particular inventory item.  There have been quite a few places I've been wanting to get to with these.

EDIT 2: Hah!  Zelda has a Tingle doll in her room, and there's something else you can check out in there as well.      In case you're wondering how you get in there, you need a certain tool to enter through the chimney on the roof.

[broodwars]

Well, I'm putting things up for the night now after having completed Dungeon 5, which really wasn't a very interesting dungeon.  The dungeon was decent enough, but it just felt somewhat lame since it was just regurgitating ideas from a much better earlier dungeon, with only one new element thanks to the dungeon's weapon.  It also didn't help that you have to go through several smaller dungeons in what turns out to be a total waste of time (gee, imagine that happening in this game) before you are even allowed to enter the main dungeon.  The boss was visually interesting, but was so simple and easy to kill that it felt like a let-down after how awesome the boss of Dungeon 4 was.

Unfortunately, over 30 hours into the game now one thing's become very much clear: Fi is the worst part of this game.  She ruins this game all on her lonesome.  Oh, sorry, I guess I should stop calling it a "she", because that implies there is some actual personality to that Ghost in the Shell.  Fi is Nintendo's definitive declaration to the entire gaming populace that they think we are all STUPID.  They think I am stupid.  They think you are stupid.  They even make it obvious that they think the casuals are stupid.

Why does Nintendo think we are all stupid?  Because Fi never shuts up.  She chimes in after just about every cutscene, every major exchange of dialogue with an NPC, and every camera hint to the player.  She reveals the solution to puzzles, the use of certain dungeon items, and the means to take down various enemies...ALL without being asked by the player.  And since you cannot turn her off, you are FORCED to endure her bland monologues about every single thing in the game, and it does major harm to the game's exploration and puzzle-solving with this spoiler-toting harpy chiming in every other step.  Sure, we've have characters like Navi and Midna in the past who were fond of chiming in, but they usually only did so when the player prompted them to give advice.  Fi chimes in whether you want her or not.

Yes, Fi, believe it or not, but 5 dungeons into the game I am very well aware of what a boss key chest looks like.  Yes, I know what hitting those particular crystals does, because I've already done it for several dungeons now!  Yes, I know how much in love with dowsing you are, but I don't care! I'm not going to use it unless I have to!  Yes, I know that event just happened, because I WAS ****ING THERE AND JUST SAW A WHOLE CINEMATIC SHOWING THAT EVENT!"

Fi is Nintendo's complete admission that they think we are too stupid to understand simple cues like camera hints, too slow to learn from experience how to deal with the same situation when it pops up consistently over a multiple-hour experience.  She is an insult to us, and I think she is an insult to the very casuals she was designed for.

[Caliban]

Just wanted to say that the only issue I've been having with this game control wise is when skydiving, particularly when I jump from the floating waterfall on Skyloft in order to reach that bird's nest. If someone has done it, and would be willing to help me...

Everything else works like a charm, and I'm adoring this game.

[Ceric]

Well I'm about to go into what I think is the 4th temple.  My big issue with this Post-3rd temple stuff is the Windmill and going back to Skyview Temple.  I honestly think those both could have been cut without the game suffering.

[marty]

7 hours in. Everything is coated in a layer of bad design.  Flying is frustrating.  Everyone talks too much and says NOTHING of interest.  Every NPC is annoying and just doles out the most pointless, asinine tasks.  How come I can't fly at night?  Where is the F_ing minimap?  How come I can't access the beacon and move it whenever I need to?  WHERE IS THE F__ING MINIMAP?  How come i have to jump off a specific point to be able to call my bird? GTA 3 was more limited by the ps2's tech and it had a huge open world (which SS doesn't have) with seamless integration of MULTIPLE vehicles and on foot portions let alone how much GTA SA did on the PS2 what... 7 years ago?

There are far too many poorly done, disjointed pieces to this and none of them are interesting and none of them are fun.  Combat is waggle +.  Outside of the music, everyone that made this should be banned from ever working in the videogame industry again.  This is Nintendo's Chineese Democracy.  Bloated and masterbatorial.  Where is the fun?  7 hours in and I've yet to find it.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

Why does Nintendo think we are all stupid?  Because Fi never shuts up.  She chimes in after just about every cutscene, every major exchange of dialogue with an NPC, and every camera hint to the player.  She reveals the solution to puzzles, the use of certain dungeon items, and the means to take down various enemies...ALL without being asked by the player.  And since you cannot turn her off, you are FORCED to endure her bland monologues about every single thing in the game, and it does major harm to the game's exploration and puzzle-solving with this spoiler-toting harpy chiming in every other step.  Sure, we've have characters like Navi and Midna in the past who were fond of chiming in, but they usually only did so when the player prompted them to give advice.  Fi chimes in whether you want her or not.

As I have many times before, I must object to this line of thinking, because it suggests that people who have difficulties playing Zelda games are stupid. Believe me - I have tried to introduce many people to Legend of Zelda over the years, it being my favourite series after all, and most of them find it hard to digest. It's relatively complicated by most standards and the puzzles often require lateral thinking, spatial awareness, memory... all sorts. But let's make something clear: these people are not stupid because they find these games difficult.

Before we go any further, I will say that I do agree with you to an extent, in that I think Fi is sometimes very overzealous (the example you gave about the boss keys is a good one). Although maybe I have to take a step back; I've played nearly every title in the series, and I've developed a knack for recognising some of these things before I'm told about them explicitly by the game that other people I know won't have.

However, your argument is basically that you think Fi was included to appeal to stupid people, which I feel is flawed and, more to the point, unfair. Some of my friends might find Fi to be useful if they played Skyward Sword. Does that make them stupid? Of course it doesn't. People who struggle with video games are NOT stupid.

[broodwars]

As I have many times before, I must object to this line of thinking, because it suggests that people who have difficulties playing Zelda games are stupid. Believe me - I have tried to introduce many people to Legend of Zelda over the years, it being my favourite series after all, and most of them find it hard to digest. It's relatively complicated by most standards and the puzzles often require lateral thinking, spatial awareness, memory... all sorts. But let's make something clear: these people are not stupid because they find these games difficult.

However, your argument is basically that you think Fi was included to appeal to stupid people, which I feel is flawed and, more to the point, unfair. Some of my friends might find Fi to be useful if they played Skyward Sword. Does that make them stupid? Of course it doesn't. People who struggle with video games are NOT stupid.

As I said, I don't think the average player of this game is stupid.  I think Nintendo must think that the way that Fi will just not let you figure much of anything in this game out on your own without butting in and giving you the solution.  I'm completely fine with the game having a helper character for players who need it.  There can be some tricky situations in this game where even I needed a little hint from time to time, and having such a character there to lend help when you ask for it is very handy.  But the game often gives you no choice with Fi, as she tends to jump in to give away a solution unprompted.  And I think that hurts the game because it doesn't encourage you as the player to work out a puzzle for yourself. 

I think the audience playing this game is smarter than Nintendo gives them credit for with Fi, who spends the entire game talking down to you as if you are too stupid to notice a single thing in this game.  Why even have the musical cues, camera cues, and cutscenes if you're just going to have Fi jump in every 2 seconds and explain away the entire situation?  It's insulting how little respect this game has for the player.

And what's really ironically hilarious is that the few times I've needed a hint from Fi, she's been spectacularly useless at giving me any more information than I already know.  There's a particular door sequence puzzle in the 5th dungeon that I ended up having to solve just randomly swiping at the door, because the game doesn't seem to give you any clue what the order of the symbols on the floor is.

[BeautifulShy]

Gonna start playing again after having sneezing fits yesterday. It seems I am behind some people but I am taking my time with the game and enjoying it.

[Ceric]

Personally most of my problems with Fi would go away if:

1.  They used when you last played to when you are playing to determine whether or not to do the pickup items, dungeon key, etc.  After about a week or two of not playing reminding me of some of these things is ok but, an hour... That's Silly.

2.  Decide what she is suppose to be.  Dancing artistically everytime you read something from the ancient language then give me all my other information with not expression doesn't exactly mix together.

I like how they have the different control levels for whats shown.  I wish Fi would correlate to those when it came to items and some of the other redundant information. 

Also most of the time Fi Hints are useless and I have to use the stone when I'm really stuck.  Which is normally Pixel hunting level of stuff.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

As I said, I don't think the average player of this game is stupid.  I think Nintendo must think that the way that Fi will just not let you figure much of anything in this game out on your own without butting in and giving you the solution.  I'm completely fine with the game having a helper character for players who need it.  There can be some tricky situations in this game where even I needed a little hint from time to time, and having such a character there to lend help when you ask for it is very handy.  But the game often gives you no choice with Fi, as she tends to jump in to give away a solution unprompted.  And I think that hurts the game because it doesn't encourage you as the player to work out a puzzle for yourself. 

I think the audience playing this game is smarter than Nintendo gives them credit for with Fi, who spends the entire game talking down to you as if you are too stupid to notice a single thing in this game.  Why even have the musical cues, camera cues, and cutscenes if you're just going to have Fi jump in every 2 seconds and explain away the entire situation?  It's insulting how little respect this game has for the player.

Just a teensy bit of exaggeration there. In dungeons, you're pretty much left to your own devices. Like I said, I agree that you can go overboard with the explanation of certain things. Anyway, it's a shame this is such a problem for you, but I really don't think it's anywhere near as annoying as you're making it out to be.

[marty]

It's insulting how little respect this game has for the player.

I think this is a Nintendo problem.

[broodwars]

Just a teensy bit of exaggeration there. In dungeons, you're pretty much left to your own devices. Like I said, I agree that you can go overboard with the explanation of certain things. Anyway, it's a shame this is such a problem for you, but I really don't think it's anywhere near as annoying as you're making it out to be.

I did exaggerate a bit for effect (but only a bit), but it still happens often enough that it breaks my experience whenever it does.  Every time I start to get into a groove with this game, out comes Fi to tell me something obvious that I already know or a hint to a puzzle I've barely started.  It's incredibly frustrating to the point of actually making me angry (which even the motion controls didn't do early on before I got used to them), especially because Fi aside this is is quite possibly my 2nd favorite Zelda game, behind Majora's Mask.  If the dungeons step it up more, it could even supplant that game.  I just wish Nintendo was willing to have faith in the player to ask for help when they need it, but to otherwise stay out of their way.

[Ceric]

I wish Fi would give more lore like she hints at.  That be cool.

[Luigi Dude]

Everyone has to remember that Nintendo designs all Zelda games to be playable for first time players to the series.  Even though I'm only half way through the game, the first half of Skyward Sword is easily the most challenging first half for a 3D Zelda.  Skyward Sword completely redid the overword structure where now getting to the dungeons is basically a dungeon in itself, were players are constantly doing puzzles and moving through mazelike sections in order to get to the dungeon.  Unlike the previous 3D Zelda where getting to the dungeons were pretty clear paths with the only obstacles being one something thing that the items from the previous dungeon would allow you to pass.

Because of this its not hard to see why Nintendo was a little extra cautious.  Since Skyward Sword is more complex then previous Zeldas, they wanted to make sure new players wouldn't be completely lost.  Now yeah at certain points in they went overboard but if that is what it took to finally make overworld more exciting instead of straight lines leading from one dungeon to another, I'll gladly take Fi.

Besides, I just view Fi as another enemy encounter.  Every time she appears I just hold A so the text goes by faster while not bothering to read it and it's gone in a few seconds.  About the same amount of time to defeat a random Bokoblin.

[nickmitch]

2.  Decide what she is suppose to be.  Dancing artistically everytime you read something from the ancient language then give me all my other information with not expression doesn't exactly mix together.

When I saw that, I genuinely said, "What the ****?!" out loud to no one.

[Ceric]

Alright this Extra Credits  Really Resonates with how I feel about Zelda.

2.  Decide what she is suppose to be.  Dancing artistically everytime you read something from the ancient language then give me all my other information with not expression doesn't exactly mix together.

When I saw that, I genuinely said, "What the ****?!" out loud to no one.

lol.  I've been recording my play through minus the first dungeon which it messed up on so I would have audio proof of that moment.  Though  it does show off her legs and stalkings.  Not to mention not being flat. :p

[broodwars]

I have completed the final (I hope) Silent Realm trial, though this one took me 2 tries to complete successfully.  There is just one section that's very tricky to do without being detected, since you're sandwiched between 2 guardians on a steep incline w/ 3 detectors swooping around.  I have also completed some minor quests around Skyloft, including finally winning the harp mini-game to get a well-deserved heart piece and finish that quest line.  I also managed to catch some birds to upgrade my shield, as well as some tumbleweed for the Big Bug Net.  I wish they just sold the frickin' tumbleweeds, because the things are annoying to find and catch and most of the upgrades for the later items require large numbers of it.

At this point, the game finally lets you dowse for useful things like Goddess Cubes, starbits gratitude crystals, and treasures.  Why the game didn't you let you search for these from the beginning, I'll never understand because it's just about the only thing dowsing's useful for.  And, of course, it's not enough to have the ability with your sword to dowse for these items.  No, of course this dowsing searches are only added to your search list if you find the correct person to talk to to remind Fi to do its frickin' job.

The story's starting to have some interesting implications given what you see Link starting to acquire as he gets the 3 sacred flames for the Skyward Sword.  From the hints I've been hearing from people who have finished the game, Skyward Sword could potentially have some far-ranging implications for the future of the franchise if this keeps up.

EDIT: Thanks a lot for a pointless and fairly difficult (towards the end) time-padding escort mission, Nintendo.  That was sooooo completely necessary considering there was a warp point right at the place I was going to use that item.

[Caliban]

The end.

In 45 hours.

[broodwars]

In the midst of the 6th dungeon boss after what was a genuinely good fire dungeon with a new item that has interesting new gameplay applications I'm eager to try.  However, this boss is just frustrating and makes me wonder just how strapped for resources Nintendo inexplicable was with this game.  The boss is just Ghirahem again.  And this isn't even the first time this game has recycled a boss.  It's bad enough that this game recycles environments by making you continually return to previous ones and just color-swaps the same handful of enemies, but recycling the same boss fights w/ very little new added?  *sigh*

EDIT: And it's followed by another repeated boss fight, though at least this one introduces a fun new sidekick element to it.

[BeautifulShy]

The end.

In 45 hours.

You already beat the game? When did you get it?