Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword

[ThePerm]

Miyamoto has produced some great games, but i wonder what its like to work with him. There may be a particular reason Yamauchi took a liking to him..they both are crazy bastards. Notice how unless Miyamoto isn't working on something it gets ignored, and im not sure if its because he just makes stuff of better quality or if he throws it under the bus.  Miyamoto created Donkey Knong, which was really just a vehicle for Mario. I heard a story about how when Rare came out with DKC Yamauchi gave him a scolding about how their **** was way better, Result: Super Mario World 2. An antithesis in style to DKC. Ever since then Donkey Kong has been second tier for Nintendo. Also, notice that Gumpei Yokoi titles like Metroid and Kid Icarus get the 2nd tier treatment. I'm betting Miyamoto is the type of person who tries to dominate and seek attention.

[Caterkiller]

                                                                                                 

Do you get the feeling that working for Miyamoto is difficult with the constant tea table upending and such?  As brilliant as Miyamoto is, it seems like he isn't particularly trusting of his employees.  It's not fun to work for a boss you can never please.

But the games he is involved with always are of such high quality I'm not sure how you can totally criticize that.  Making Rare put Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet is the only real questionable choice.

I remember reading something years ago that said during Mario 64's development Miyamoto was brutal to his team.  Since there was a lot of pressure on making sure the game would be the big revolution for 3D gaming that it was hyped up to be, Miyamoto was said to be a mad man in development, forcing members to completely redo certain sections in only short periods of time over and over again until he was satisfied.  After the game was done, apparently several people quit the company because they never wanted to work with Miyamoto ever again.

Of course like insanolord said, Miyamoto gets results.  Mario 64 ended up being a revolution that pretty much created the modern 3D gaming industry so Miyamoto did succeed in the end.

We should have a whole thread devoted to this topic.

[Stratos]

Then start it. I wouldn't mind making it a rotating thread where we talk about different game creators and their personalities. One week it's Miyamoto, next it is Carmack, Cid Meyer or Mikami. We could also discuss the differences between iconic single developers and iconic studios. Why is it Blizzard and Valve are unified as a company versus someone like Miyamoto or Cid?

[TJ Spyke]

I heard a story about how when Rare came out with DKC Yamauchi gave him a scolding about how their **** was way better, Result: Super Mario World 2. An antithesis in style to DKC. Ever since then Donkey Kong has been second tier for Nintendo.

This has already been addressed multiple times. After Donkey Kong Country was released and became one of the best selling games of all time, companies started copying the pre-rendered look. Miyamot worked on Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island and submitted it to the marketing department and they (not Yamauchi) said they wanted it to look more realistic like DKC. Instead of doing that, he went and made it even more cartoony looking. The marketing department ended up approving the new look.

As for second tier, I think Nintendo has just never cared all that much for it. The series had pretty much been dormant for years, then Rare asked if they could make a Donkey Kong game (with Yamauchi asking Miyamoto if he was OK with that, Miyamoto even ended up helping with some concept art). Once Rare left Nintendo pretty much relegated it back to B-level again.

[Adrock]

Every time I watch the Skyward Sword trailer, I find myself less and less impressed. As stupid as this sounds, it looks too Zelda. I feel like I've already played this game. It's the same way I felt when Wind Waker was released. The graphics are different, but the gameplay was largely familiar, even with the Motion Plus horizontal/vertical slashes. I know the game has a ways to go, but this has dropped significantly on my must-have list. Comparatively, I look at Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. It captures the essence of Castlevania while the gameplay looks almost nothing like previous games in the series. Granted, it's treated as a reboot and comes from a completely different developer halfway across the world. I'd love to see Nintendo give their baby to another (very capable) developer. I would nominate Retro Studios and give them free reign over the game. I'm sure I'm in the minority in this. I'd love to see some interesting, new ideas, not just Miyamoto supervising a bunch of American programmers into making the same game EAD could make.

[Luigi Dude]

Comparatively, I look at Castlevania: Lords of Shadow. It captures the essence of Castlevania while the gameplay looks almost nothing like previous games in the series. Granted, it's treated as a reboot and comes from a completely different developer halfway across the world. I'd love to see Nintendo give their baby to another (very capable) developer.

Yeah, because they turned the game into a God of War clone.  If Nintendo was to give Zelda to another company that's just going to turn it into something so totally different that it resembles another game series more, then they're be better off just creating a new IP with them instead.

I'd rather have Zelda games remain too Zelda instead of being turned into something that's Zelda in name only which is what the new Castlevania is.  Just replace the main character in that game with Kratos and it could easily be called God of War 4.

[ThePerm]

i know a game Nintendo should do that with

[Peachylala]

i know a game Nintendo should do that with :

Peachonetta.

Coming never.

[Kytim89]

Skyward Sword's art style was a little too cartoony for my tatses. I much prefered the visual style of Twilight Princess and was hoping that this newest title in the series would improve upon those visuals. Do not get me wrong, I am very impressed by what I saw, but I just want something different.

[ThePerm]

i know a game Nintendo should do that with :

Peachonetta.

Coming never.

lol from the doodle thread

i have an entire game scenario plotted out, but i need to find a better artist then myself

[Adrock]

Yeah, because they turned the game into a God of War clone.  If Nintendo was to give Zelda to another company that's just going to turn it into something so totally different that it resembles another game series more, then they're be better off just creating a new IP with them instead.

I disagree. The term God of War clone is tossed around so often these days that it has almost lost its meaning. It seems like every 3D action game is just given that label. Sometimes it fits, sometimes it doesn't. I don't think Lords of Shadow deserves that branding as much as, say, Dante's Inferno does. From what I've seen, MercurySteam has done a wonderful job bringing something new to the table while creating a game that is undeniably Castlevania. As much as I enjoy Igarashi's Castlevania games, they're formulaic. There's a reason why his team was able to pump out a new game in a year, there's a lot of recycled content. While I enjoyed Order of Ecclesia, it edged dangerously close to tedium due, in part, to its predictability. Furthermore, the 3D games were just the 2D games with the camera behind the player which works, but doesn't work. I'm more than pleased with what David Cox and his team have done with Lords of Shadow especially since Koji Igarashi seemed to have trouble bringing the series to 3D without just moving the perspective.

That said, I think it's possible to offer something new in Zelda without destroying its identity. It's a fine line, but it can be done. I look at Skyward Sword and I see cel-shaded Twilight Princess. I almost don't care and I feel like the only reason I still care is because it's Zelda. After the travesty that was Spirit Tracks, I'm hoping for the return of Zelda in a big way, but not just the return of Twilight Princess, a game I only completed because I was already 80% through.

[NWR_insanolord]

I don't understand how you think you've seen enough info about the game to come to that conclusion. It may be what you think it is, but all we've seen is a trailer that's less than two minutes long and impressions of a gameplay demo designed to show off some of the things they did with Motion+.

[ThePerm]

God of War is a Zelda clone....and i say this very looseley

[Halbred]

Hilarious Possibility:

What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?

[Kytim89]

Hilarious Possibility:

What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?

World wide Zelda fan riot would result.

[Adrock]

I don't understand how you think you've seen enough info about the game to come to that conclusion. It may be what you think it is, but all we've seen is a trailer that's less than two minutes long and impressions of a gameplay demo designed to show off some of the things they did with Motion+.

There are these things called "first impressions." Also....

I kept saying the same thing about Twilight Princess until I played it. I'll reserve judgment. The trailer didn't wow me. My point is that I can't really see Motion Plus at work in the trailer. I can imagine how it might add depth to the gameplay, but right now, all I see is Link swing his sword like he did in Twilight Princess. I won't let myself get too excited about the game because the gameplay looks awfully familiar.

I'm not writing Skyward Sword off, especially considering I've already acknowledged that the game is still early. I'm just not that excited for it based on what I've seen so far. Maybe I will be, I don't know. Right now, though, what they showed off still looked like Twilight Princess. So be it. There are other games that I'm far more excited for. I'll tell you what though, if Skyward Sword ends up wowing me in the end (I mean, when it comes out and I beat the game), I owe you a coke.

What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?

If you played as Zelda, I think people would dig it. I remember when that Twilight Princess art piece was released of Zelda holding a sword. I was excited at the prospect. Zelda and her magic would certainly spice things up. Sadly, no.

[ThePerm]

heheh, oh you mean majora's mask?

for a brief time you got control of a character named Kaffei, which i thought should get his own game just for that reason..haha
i remember making jokes about Belda, where its pretty much the same thing but the character has blue hair. Fans really love Zelda gameplay, but what they hate is that dungeons start to become repetative. The paradigm is a level based on an element..like fire, water, leaf. This gets old..what Nintendo should do is varying architectural styles of dungeons. Greek, Asian, Egyptian, Meso-american, Gothic. Thats what i would do.

[Ian Sane]

Skyward Sword will be "too Zelda" if it's the standard 8 dungeon formula and you get the same items and visit the same areas.  The problem with a long running series is that initially it's establishing itself but eventually it goes in the opposite direction and the new entries follow the template the original games created.  It gets to the point where it's all appealling to fan familiarity and nostalgia and at that point the series has become irrelevant.  If Nintendo wants to truly do something different they can't be thinking "so when should Link get the hookshot?" and "at what point should he meet the Gorons?"
 
I think to make a Zelda game all you need is Link armed with a sword and shield having an adventure in a fantasy world.  The world is interconnected instead of level based and interaction with the environment is all in real time.  If you start with just that then you've got a Zelda game.  Now just do whatever the hell you want.  You don't have to include Zelda, the Triforce, Death Mountain or anything else.  That's the mistake devs make that results in stale cookie-cutter sequels.
 
If anything I would make a conscious effort to not stick with Zelda conventions beyond those barebone requirements.  Though I figure they'll just rely on the new controls to keep things fresh.

[stevey]

Hilarious Possibility:

What if Miyamoto pulls an MGS2--you start the game as Link, but after doing something important, you start playing as some new secondary character? HOW AWESOME WOULD THAT BE?

Depends, it would be awesome if this new character is a redheaded cowgirl, secretly Zelda (Tetra), or a female Link....

Otherwise

[ThePerm]

Zelda needs giant monster battles

[Mop it up]

You don't have to include Zelda, the Triforce, Death Mountain or anything else.

The game is titled The Legend of Zelda, so it kind of does need Zelda. And her legend is the Triforce, so it needs that, too. Everything else, though, is fair game, it doesn't even need Ganon.

[DAaaMan64]

Zelda needs giant monster battles

Like shadow of the colossus? I agree.

[Ian Sane]

The game is titled The Legend of Zelda, so it kind of does need Zelda. And her legend is the Triforce, so it needs that, too.

Link's Awakening doesn't have Zelda or the Triforce.  Majora's Mask doesn't have those either.  They are quite optional.
 
At the very least they don't have to be so structured with the rescuing Zelda stuff.  A character named "Zelda" just has to have a significant enough involvement in the story for the name to make sense.  Hell the "Legend of Zelda" could just be a historical myth referenced in the game and no character named Zelda ever makes an appearance.

[ThePerm]

i meant more like power rangers...but that works too

[Dirk Temporo]

You don't have to include Zelda, the Triforce, Death Mountain or anything else.

The game is titled The Legend of Zelda, so it kind of does need Zelda.

Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages, Oracle of Seasons...