Topic: Metroid Other M

[Halbred]

Right, you can only rotate around in first-person view, not move/strafe. Now that we know he was unwilling to use anything but the Wii Remote by itself, we know why.

[Shorty McNostril]

I'm afraid my enthusiasm for this game has plummeted since we saw it initially.  It has so much potential, but it looks like its being baby'd down. 

*Sigh*

[Stogi]

As much as I am repulsed by the idea, the more I think about, a Metroid on-rails...or at least a section of the game...would actually be pretty damn cool. It could be like that beginning part of Prime 3 where your controlling your ship or the part where you fight Ridley.

I wouldn't want it to be completely on-rails, but it could have its place in the series.

[Ian Sane]

It seems that in order to be truly excited about this game one has to have an open mind.  That's rather troubling.  This is Metroid.  Shouldn't it be an obvious slam dunk?  I'd argue we shouldn't have to have any cause to be worried.  And yet we do.

People were shitting bricks about Metroid Prime as well.  Though I can't remember at what point the concern disappeared.  I know initially it was like "a Metroid FPS? WTF?"  But at some point I think impressions demonstrated it was going to deliver.  I don't remember if that was after an E3 or if it wasn't until the reviews came in.

How trustworthy is the on-rails shooter stuff?  Is it credible because it seems like the exact sort of hoax someone would make up to stir up ****.  On-rail shooter is the big joke genre of the Wii.  It sounds too perfect.  Nothing would piss off Nintendo fans more.

If it is true it certainly isn't encouraging for anyone concerned about Metroid being too linear.  Plus for me Sakamoto's involvement was what convinced me to give this game a chance.  At first it just seemed like Nintendo farming off Metroid to Team Ninja, showing the amount of care Nintendo has for the Star Fox franchise.  Nintendo has allowed outside groups to poison one of their franchises before, they could do it again.  But the original Metroid guy was involved so it was supposed to be okay.  The emphasis was that Sakamoto's team wasn't familiar with 3D graphics so Team Ninja were more of technical consultant.

If this on-rails stuff is true than Sakamoto is actually the threat to the project.  Team Ninja, who are supposed to just be the code monkeys here, had to convince Sakamoto to actually make a REAL Metroid game?  Not only is Sakamoto's insanity a frustration but that means that at best this could end up being Team Ninja's Metroid game.  That's what I didn't want.  I wanted Nintendo's Metroid game.  Now Team Ninja's Metroid game seems like the lesser of two evils.

I want this to be good but if it turned out to be utter crap I would not be surprised at all.  Maybe the reason this and Super Mario Galaxy 2 are coming out so close together is because Nintendo knows this is going to be ****.  I figured they would space such major titles out but I assumed this would be one of the Wii's best games of the year.  Maybe Nintendo knows Sakamoto has doomed the project with his stupid ideas and figures negative word-of-mouth will prevent this title from being a strong seller so SMG2 has to be out ASAP to pick up the slack.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The thought of a 3D FPS Metroid made me think "Wow," an engrossing sci-fi 3D adventure experience; from the CG teasers, that's what I desired.  I was never a big fan of Super Metroid (Mega Man X was in control of me), but I valued its puzzle/level design.  The part that puzzled me was how to make 2D platforming work in first-person controls.  The deal was sealed in E3 2002 when the Frigate Orpheon intro demo debuted, erasing doubts and winning awards.

[Chozo Ghost]

The following story leaves me slack-jawed:
 
http://kotaku.com/5491158/metroid-other-m-might-have-been-on+rails-if-not-for-team-ninja
 
You read that link right. Sakamoto's original idea for Other M was an on-rails shooter. Like Dead Space Extraction. Team Ninja saved the game, and Sakamoto stubbornly refuses to use any control scheme exept the Remote by itself. There is no Nunchuk. There is no Classic Controller.
 
This is genuinely worrying.

Metroid as an On-rails shooter? Holy crap! We dodged a bullet there if that was prevented, but the fact the moron who even suggested it is still in charge of the project is very disheartening.

I've waited since 1994 for a proper Metroid game, and it looks like I will have to be waiting even longer. /cry

[Chozo Ghost]

People were ****ting bricks about Metroid Prime as well.  Though I can't remember at what point the concern disappeared.  I know initially it was like "a Metroid FPS? WTF?"  But at some point I think impressions demonstrated it was going to deliver.  I don't remember if that was after an E3 or if it wasn't until the reviews came in.

I've never liked the fact the Prime games were FPS. I tolerated it because I had no choice, but its not what I wanted and I wished (and still wish) it was 3rd person. So my concern hasn't disappeared per se, its just there's no point in voicing it since the games are made and done.

[Chozo Ghost]

How trustworthy is the on-rails shooter stuff?  Is it credible because it seems like the exact sort of hoax someone would make up to stir up ****.  On-rail shooter is the big joke genre of the Wii.  It sounds too perfect.  Nothing would piss off Nintendo fans more.

It seems plausible when you consider Sakamoto wants the game to be playable on the Wiimote, and only on the Wiimote (no chuck). Considering the Wiimote by itself has a VERY limited selection of buttons and no analog stick, you can understand why navigating in a 3D environment is going to be very difficult (Super Mario 64 DS comes to mind), but in an on-rails shooter you don't have to mess with navigating because it is done for you.

So what I'm saying is it makes sense to me why he would want that because of the limitations of the wiimote by itself. I don't agree with it, and I'm very unhappy about it, but I can sorta see how his mind was working when he proposed that.

[Ian Sane]

It seems plausible when you consider Sakamoto wants the game to be playable on the Wiimote, and only on the Wiimote (no chuck). Considering the Wiimote by itself has a VERY limited selection of buttons and no analog stick, you can understand why navigating in a 3D environment is going to be very difficult (Super Mario 64 DS comes to mind), but in an on-rails shooter you don't have to mess with navigating because it is done for you.

See this is what I consider poor game design.  Sakamoto decides he's going to use just the remote and then has to alter his game around this seemingly arbitrary decision and in the end has to strip out the very elements of Metroid that make it appealing to the fanbase because of the restrictions imposed.  What sort of stupid jackass would take this approach?  I'm of the idea that your goal should be to make a great game and restrictions come about as a result of the realities of life.  You're limited by your budget, the system you're working with, the targetted development time, the controller the system provides.  But with an arbitrary restriction you're just risking making a **** game.
 
And if Sakamoto wanted to make his own embarassing **** game that's fine.  But this is using a franchise where there's a fanbase that has certain expectations.  Metroid is a brand name that is going to, by itself, convince some people to buy this game without even reading a review.  Knowing that, to use a franchise to be all cute with arbitrary restrictions is taking advantage of those people.  And that makes you a fucking asshole.  If Sakamoto wants to be all arty and challenge himself in a weird way, he should do it with a new franchise where no one will be tricked into buying a Metroid game that isn't really a Metroid game.

[Stogi]

The angrier you get.


This is hilarious.

[King of Twitch]

How about you wait to play the game for yourself before condemning someone you asterisking asteriskhole

[MoronSonOfBoron]

Having played Prime: Hunters, Echoes of Time, and Phantasy Star Zero on the DS, I'm actually very comfortable with the idea of moving in 3D space with a D-pad and believe it would be a viable scheme on the home console. Unlike the commonplace control stick, it has very simple, intuitive directions; its binary level of input makes gameplay feel fast-paced and less prone to error.

Just saying.

The qualms arising from Super Mario 64 DS are understandable; Super Mario 64 was built with 3D navigation in mind. However, Other M could turn out to be less 3D-oriented, like the DS games I mentioned, and thus be more suited to D-pad control.

I also find the possibility of the gameplay rhythm changing between shooter/platformer to be appealing, since they not only emphasize the primal joys of Metroid (shooting and movement), but they make them into invested choices during combat. Precision gunning juxtaposed with free movement has been an issue for 3D games, since many people have difficulty reconciling the two; by separating those factors, Other M has potential for creating a more strategic shooter experience.

[Halbred]

I disagree. Having suffered through Super Mario 64 DS, I can say with a level of certainty that a game involving movement in 3D space requires an analog stick. Can you imagine playing Super Mario Galaxy with the d-pad?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Yes.  I would directly fall into so many black holes.

[Ian Sane]

How about you wait to play the game for yourself before condemning someone you asterisking asteriskhole

Hey, I was giving Sakamoto the benefit of the doubt... and then we find out he was seriously planning on turning Metroid into an on-rails shooter.  If that had happened how could that not be the worst Metroid game by far?  That completely lacks the whole POINT of Metroid.  It strips out what made a Metroid a big deal in the first place.  And I would consider it somewhat unethical to intentionally make a Metroid game that is un-Metroid like when you know full well that Metroid fans will buy it entirely because of the name on the box.  That would be taking advantage of people.
 
I'm not going to wait until I play it, I'm going to wait until reviews.  This is Metroid.  Metroid cleans up in reviews.  It's a franchise more likely to be overrated than underrated.  So I trust that reviewers aren't going to crap on it without cause.  Metroid and Zelda are like the videogame equivalent of those really over-the-top drama films that manipulate the Academy into nominating them for Best Picture every year.  It will take a SERIOUS dud to turn game reviewers against Metroid.
 

 I disagree. Having suffered through Super Mario 64 DS, I can say with a level of certainty that a game involving movement in 3D space requires an analog stick. Can you imagine playing Super Mario Galaxy with the d-pad?

I think Super Mario 64 DS sucks with a d-pad because it wasn't designed for a d-pad.  They took an analog stick game and tried to shoehorn it onto a system without an analog stick.  But if Super Mario 64 was designed with a d-pad to begin with I think it would have been fine.  A lot of PS1 games use just the d-pad for 3D and I think they control fine.

[ThePerm]

im pretty sure the game is going to be some sort of cross between super metroid and saturn Nights with fighter type special moves, if so then it should be a pretty decent control style. Nights was a 2d game with a 3d camera, and one of my favorites. If its a classic style Metroid game with that type of setup it should be worth a play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxtaX-LpvYA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7jk4wVYh6s&feature=related

[King of Twitch]

But it didn't happen... They changed it. And now you're going to rely on biased reviews that you admit

a) overrate the series
b) only critique Metroid when absolutely necessary

Do you even read the words that you type?

Originally posted by Aaron Kaluszka who actually played the game:
I have little doubt that this will be a great game. A lot of effort has clearly been put into the cinematics and story-telling, but the gameplay hasn't suffered. The attention to detail is impressive, and the addition of Ninja Gaiden-style action with Metroid-style exploration should be a lot of fun.

[Ian Sane]

And now you're going to rely on biased reviews that you admit

a) overrate the series
b) only critique Metroid when absolutely necessary

They're biased in a direction where if they're wrong I'm stuck with a bad game. What I mean is, if this game gets like a 7, I don't want people on this forum giving me guff for not spending my money to try the game myself.  If they overrate Metroid then IF Metroid gets a lousy review score you can REALLY trust that it's not worth playing.  When complaints are made about biased reviews it's always a Wii game not getting enough praise.  There's this attitude that everyone should try out (ie: buy) every half-baked Wii game around just in case it's good.  Since Metroid is typically well liked among reviewers I can assume that if this actually gets poor reviews that I will not have to try it for myself.  No one is going to intentionally crap on Metroid because they hate the Wii or whatever.  Metroid is the type of game that a reviewer with a slant against non-games wants Nintendo to make more of so they won't crap on it to further their agenda or anything like that.
 
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want any hassle about not trying this game if it gets raked over the coals in reviews.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I need to stay out of this thread. I'm on a selective Metroid media semi-blackout and have not read the impressions or watched the (leaked) trailers. I already know i'm gonna buy the game, so there is no need for me to know everything about it before I play.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Samus develops a romantic relationship with a young Space Pirate.  The two work very hard to keep it hidden, but one of Miss Aran's Space Marine admirers discovers their secret and immediately doesn't accept it, bent on separating the pair.

Metroid: Other Marine, Other Mantis explores the deep drama and dangerous boundaries within this triad, each of whom stand on differing points of the law, duty, and passion.


"I DEMAND POPCORN FOR THIS FLICK"

[mac<censored>]

If they overrate Metroid then IF Metroid gets a lousy review score you can REALLY trust that it's not worth playing.

Not true.  Part of the "overrating series X" syndrome is "obsessing stupidly about random arbitrary details of series X".

If Metroid M is a great game, but happens to violate some fanboy's pedantic obsessions, he'll likely trash it in his review, despite the game's general high quality.

[Peachylala]

Basically they pull an IGN reviews NSMBWii is what you are saying?

[Chozo Ghost]

See this is what I consider poor game design.  Sakamoto decides he's going to use just the remote and then has to alter his game around this seemingly arbitrary decision and in the end has to strip out the very elements of Metroid that make it appealing to the fanbase because of the restrictions imposed.  What sort of stupid jackass would take this approach?  I'm of the idea that your goal should be to make a great game and restrictions come about as a result of the realities of life.  You're limited by your budget, the system you're working with, the targetted development time, the controller the system provides.  But with an arbitrary restriction you're just risking making a **** game.
 
And if Sakamoto wanted to make his own embarassing **** game that's fine.  But this is using a franchise where there's a fanbase that has certain expectations.  Metroid is a brand name that is going to, by itself, convince some people to buy this game without even reading a review.  Knowing that, to use a franchise to be all cute with arbitrary restrictions is taking advantage of those people.  And that makes you a ****ing asshole.  If Sakamoto wants to be all arty and challenge himself in a weird way, he should do it with a new franchise where no one will be tricked into buying a Metroid game that isn't really a Metroid game.

I think a lot of this decision to make the game Wiimote only probably revolves around NSMB and how that game reverts back to the original NES controller setup (when you turn the wiimote on its side). That seems to be a big thing with Nintendo these days for some reason, because I guess they are trying to simplify the control of games and one of the ways you can do that is by having fewer buttons for players to be confused with.

It isn't a problem at all if you are playing a 2D side-scroller, which is what NSMB is. In that case it can play just like the NES SMB games with no problem. But when it comes to 3D gaming, I have serious doubts. We've been citing SM64 DS as an example of how a 3D game controls horribly with a D-Pad, but remember the DS has more buttons than the Wiimote does. The DS basically has the same button layout as an SNES controller, but the Wiimote is just an NES controller. So we all can see how SM64 DS sucked, but imagine that game being done without those extra buttons. It would likely suck even worse. That's a potential issue Metroid M might face with just an NES controller setup.

Of course, Metroid CAN work well with an NES controller. We know this because the original Metroid and Metroid II were done this way. But those were 2D games like NSMB. If Nintendo intended Other M to be 2D side-scroller Metroid like the originals then it should work fine, but that's not the case.

[MoronSonOfBoron]

What other 3D action/platform games on DS used the D-pad? I'm kind of tired of hearing about SM64DS. Surely the blue sea must yield us something that doesn't suck?

[NWR_insanolord]

Most of my DS games are 2D, but of the 3D ones that I've played I can't think of any that I had any problems with except Mario 64, and even then I was able to adjust.