Topic: Metroid Other M

[Ian Sane]

About Samus:  I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older.  Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission.

This I'll agree with.  She looks a little too fragile for her line of work.
 

 The enemies in Metroid have always been quite interesting, in that they are supposed to be sentient and intelligent (at least the Space Pirates) but little of it is shown and you do not have any emotional issue killing them.

Makes you wonder what the species that makes up the space pirate are like.  Is pirating their culture or are their peaceful members of the same species living somewhere just trying to support their family in an honest way?  But that's actually the sort of mystery that I know will be more interesting in the imagination of the fans.  Having everything revealed is not always fun.
 

 Personally I find it more emotional to kill an enemy in a Mario game, they actually have some personality at times.

Fuckin' Paper Mario introduced good guy Koopas and Goombas and such.  It's never been the same for me since.  But then we've killed Bowser tons of times and he keeps coming back so maybe Mario is like a cartoon where you can blow people up and squash them with anvils and they just shake it off.  Bowser's taken the Crocomire bath and he keeps on tickin'.

[Guitar Smasher]

I don't mean to exacerbate the Mario voice issue, but could you really imagine Super Mario Bros with "woohoos" and "it's a me" every time Mario jumped?  Back then the character actually looked like an adult male plumber, now he's just a cartoon (which the voice fits).

About Samus:  I always imagined her as being around 30 years old, maybe even a little older.  Now that she looks 18, she looks totally inexperienced and not like someone you'd hire to go on a solo bounty hunter mission. 

Have you seen her in Metroid 1? Or Zero Mission? Yeah but really when you wear a super powered, one of a kind suit you will get the job no matter what you may look like. While I have NOT liked the sexualization of Samus in the series, there is nothing wrong with her being attractive and youthful, in fact it adds a unique twist to everything.

Heh, I was playing Metroid 1 last week.

And the comment doesn't apply just to Other M.  She seems to be getting younger with each game, at least to me.  Of course in the older games we don't have obvious visual clues, so my imagination had to fill in the holes.  For me it was easiest to imagine a woman who's experienced enough to do the job.  An 18 year old rookie just seems unlikely to me, even with the power suit compensating.

I'm curious why you think her attractive/youthful appearance is a unique twist?  It's pretty common in games these days, or do you mean that it's more of what you wouldn't expect?

[Guitar Smasher]

I remember reading somewhere that in Metroid 1, she's supposed to be like 22. Couldn't tell you where I read that and I'm too lazy to google it...

I'll be honest, I don't always read the text in video games.  If it's not pertinent to advancing my progression, then I often just skip it.

Oddly enough, I paid a lot of attention to the story in Prime 1.  Maybe because it felt like a small surprise each time I found a scannable object?

[GoldenPhoenix]

At the same time, Samus didn't really have any emotional attachment to the Metroid. She just bottled it up and and gave it to some scientists. Then, she was told to get it back because Ridley was being a dick again.

We don't know what happened in between saving it and when it was given to the scientists. I think the fact that the creator of SM is giving her emotional attachment to it should mean something.

[Adrock]

The creator's intention and the audience's interpretation are 2 different things. It took 8 years for Sakamoto to address it. One must wonder if that was retconned considering Super Metroid could have easily been the last of the series. The last Metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace. Then, Samus f*cks everyone up and destroys the planet. The end.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The creator's intention and the audience's interpretation are 2 different things. It took 8 years for Sakamoto to address it. One must wonder if that was retconned considering Super Metroid could have easily been the last of the series. The last Metroid is in captivity. The galaxy is at peace. Then, Samus f*cks everyone up and destroys the planet. The end.

To retcon wouldn't you need something to retcon?

[Adrock]

Adding emotional attachment to the Metroid in Fusion when previously there was none constitutes a retcon in my book considering that changes how you view the end of Metroid II and the events of Super Metroid. I always saw Super Metroid as strictly a mission. Get the baby Metroid back from the Space Pirates. The addition of an attachment, possibly maternal, to the Metroid or what have you changes Samus' motivation and characterization.

[Halbred]

Samus has looked her oldest (and best) at the end of Prime 1. At the end of Prime 2, she looked like a freakin' teenager.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Adding emotional attachment to the Metroid in Fusion when previously there was none constitutes a retcon in my book considering that changes how you view the end of Metroid II and the events of Super Metroid. I always saw Super Metroid as strictly a mission. Get the baby Metroid back from the Space Pirates. The addition of an attachment, possibly maternal, to the Metroid or what have you changes Samus' motivation and characterization.

I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since she backed out of completing her mission to save its life, showing some kind of bond to the creature.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Adding emotional attachment to the Metroid in Fusion when previously there was none constitutes a retcon in my book considering that changes how you view the end of Metroid II and the events of Super Metroid. I always saw Super Metroid as strictly a mission. Get the baby Metroid back from the Space Pirates. The addition of an attachment, possibly maternal, to the Metroid or what have you changes Samus' motivation and characterization.

I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since it was because the Metroid was treating her like its mother.

She has her own Lazarus pool!

[MoronSonOfBoron]

I always preferred Fusion Samus, with her free flowing hair and tasteful attire. One has to remember that she is also infused with Chozo blood, so she most likely has a number of superhuman traits. (Post-Fusion, she is also part Metroid!)

[Adrock]

I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since she backed out of completing her mission to save its life, showing some kind of bond to the creature.

It's not an opinion. In Super Metroid, she specifically says that she gave the Metroid larva to scientists so they "could study its energy producing qualities." Nothing about that suggests an emotional bond Samus might have for the Metroid. In fact, it flat out states the exact opposite. She didn't kill the Metroid larva so it could be studied. I suppose you could argue that she gained an emotional attachment to the Metroid after it saved her from Mother Brain (which incidentally was after it almost killed Samus). Then again, Samus doesn't grieve its demise. She kills Mother Brain, escapes Zebes and goes about her business. Only in Fusion does she quasi-show gratitude by stating that the Metroid saved her life twice, but that's a retcon by addition. It doesn't contradict previously established facts, rather it fills in background information to support new plot points.

As much as I like Fusion, it's one giant series retcon (so are the Prime games). Those cloned Metroids popping up towards the end of the game kind of messes with the whole "the last Metroid is in captivity" line from Super Metroid because clearly that wasn't true at all.

[Halbred]

Based on the fact that this conversation is even taking place, and the fact that Samus has not made her feelings about the Metroid hatchling known outright until this point, it's VERY clear that the situation was ambiguous up to this point. The fact that Samus gave the hatchling to the science federation could just be justification for her actions. You could look at it a lot of different ways. That's what makes it ambiguous.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I never viewed the Metroid/Samus relationship as that, so once again it is a matter of personal opinion, nothing to do with retconning, I always seen the two having a bond. When she let it live in Metroid 2 mother strongly suggested a bond since she did not kill it like she was supposed to. It showed an emotional reaction, especially since she backed out of completing her mission to save its life, showing some kind of bond to the creature.

It's not an opinion. In Super Metroid, she specifically says that she gave the Metroid larva to scientists so they "could study its energy producing qualities." Nothing about that suggests an emotional bond Samus might have for the Metroid. In fact, it flat out states the exact opposite. She didn't kill the Metroid larva so it could be studied. I suppose you could argue that she gained an emotional attachment to the Metroid after it saved her from Mother Brain (which incidentally was after it almost killed Samus). Then again, Samus doesn't grieve its demise. She kills Mother Brain, escapes Zebes and goes about her business. Only in Fusion does she quasi-show gratitude by stating that the Metroid saved her life twice, but that's a retcon by addition. It doesn't contradict previously established facts, rather it fills in background information to support new plot points.

As much as I like Fusion, it's one giant series retcon (so are the Prime games). Those cloned Metroids popping up towards the end of the game kind of messes with the whole "the last Metroid is in captivity" line from Super Metroid because clearly that wasn't true at all.

You could argue Super Metroid, retconned Metroid 2 if you want to go there then which made it quite clear she felt sympathy towards the baby hatch-ling and didn't complete her mission, which wasn't to capture one but to destroy them all. The end of Metroid 2 seemed to heavily hint at the fact she felt sorry for the creature, and chose to let it live going against her orders, indicating an emotionally based choice. Also we know nothing about Samus's demeanor in Super Metroid after the Metroid died, she had no time to grieve since the whole flipping world was about ready to blow up.

[Adrock]

Based on the fact that this conversation is even taking place, and the fact that Samus has not made her feelings about the Metroid hatchling known outright until this point, it's VERY clear that the situation was ambiguous up to this point. The fact that Samus gave the hatchling to the science federation could just be justification for her actions. You could look at it a lot of different ways. That's what makes it ambiguous.

It was ambiguous. I'm not debating that. The point of this conversation is to discuss whether or not events were contradicted and/or retconned. The creators made it a point to be ambiguous in Metroid II and leave Samus' feelings up to the players and they could have easily remained ambiguous in Super Metroid, but they made a conscious decision to offer an explanation which makes Metroid II's ending not ambiguous anymore.

You could argue Super Metroid, retconned Metroid 2 if you want to go there then which made it quite clear she felt sympathy towards the baby hatch-ling and didn't complete her mission, which wasn't to capture one but to destroy them all. The end of Metroid 2 seemed to heavily hint at the fact she felt sorry for the creature, and chose to let it live going against her orders, indicating an emotionally based choice.

I didn't say Super Metroid didn't retcon Metroid II, but if you really want to get into it, it does. The main difference being in Super Metroid, she points her arm canon at the hatchling which she does not do in Metroid II. Doesn't change much since she still tells us her motive, but that's retcon by alteration since something different happened than what was previously established however subtle it may be.

You say Metroid II made it quite clear that Samus felt sympathy toward the Metroid hatchling. Well, clearly it didn't because Super Metroid tells you her motive. I'm strictly going by what the games specifically tells us. Something is no longer left up to interpretation when you're flat out told what that something means. Again, it was left up to interpretation and now it is not. Unless you want to get into the intricacies of unreliable narrators (though we have no reason not to believe Samus) or a philosophical discussion on the nature of truth or the lack thereof, Samus' motive and feelings are made perfectly clear in Super Metroid though that's not to say Other M or another game won't just retcon that and specifically state that Samus felt sorry for the Metroid hatchling. However, as it stands, Samus did it for science.

Also we know nothing about Samus's demeanor in Super Metroid after the Metroid died, she had no time to grieve since the whole flipping world was about ready to blow up.

Yes, exactly. The ending of Super Metroid is once again ambiguous and left completely to interpretation. That is, until Fusion where it's still ambiguous, but less so after Samus makes that comment about the hatchling saving her (which, for consistency's sake, still has no bearing on her feelings prior to being saved). She didn't grieve, but did she not grieve because there was no time or because she didn't care? In Super Metroid, we don't know. In Fusion, we know more. She cared enough to acknowledge that she owed her life twice over to the Metroid hatchling.

/long post

[Nemo]

Ignoring whatever happens in Other M (which I can't comment on much due to not having played it), I always viewed Samus as being somewhat kind to the Metroid- saving its life in Metroid 2. Sure, she gave it to scientists, but what was she going to do - keep it and raise it herself? Of course, she'd be thankful that the metroid saved her life in Super Metroid and probably sad to see it die. But there's no time to cry when Mother Brain's trying to kill you and the planet you're on is going to explode. Also, another (optional?) sign of Samus being a caring person is that in Super Metroid she (optionally?) save the Etecoons and Dachola. Of course, Dachola and the Etecoons are still around in Metroid Fussion, so it's clear (to me at least) that you/Samus were intended to save 'em.

Even though I think Samus cares, I also think she's a practical person, focused on accomplishing the mission.

Of course, Other M could change my opinions on who Samus is...

[gbuell]

Remote sideways makes me wonder how the hell you can fire missiles. Hitting select to switch between guns and missiles is terrible and since the GBA games improved that there should no longer be a need for switching back and forth. Or will missiles be restricted to FPS view?

They're restricted to FPS view.

[stevey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFmzH52YrCk

Ug the terrible, terrible voice acting and writing. Not even Hawtness could save the game now.

(did Samus always have that mark on her face?)

[ThePerm]

no, this series has gotten too J-pop! FAIL Ze bez.... I always said Zeebz. On the other hand that allows me to make a game with a planet Zeebz

[Stratos]

I think the voice acting is fine in the opening clip I saw. She sounds like I would expect a female Boba Fett to sound which is fitting. Sure she may be dealing with an emotional dilemma but that's not going to make her change into a super emotional person in a second. She may not ever become super emotional so keeping the voice more even and controlled like that seems to work great.

[KDR_11k]

AFAIK Metroid 2 had you kill about 100 metroids and then leave, as far as other metroids showing up later I don't think Samus has conclusive proof that the entire species has been eliminated (maybe the space pirates had another stash besides Zebes?). Eusocial specieses tend to have the queen suppress the reproductive abilities of the other females through pheromones, if the queen dies or is separated from the state the other females become capable of reproduction too.

Generally dashing people's imagination and replacing it with some kind of author-dictated story tends to annoy people and can alienate them from the character if they don't like what the author put in there. It's what the author wants to do but is it really better?

[GoldenPhoenix]

The main difference being in Super Metroid, she points her arm canon at the hatchling which she does not do in Metroid II. Doesn't change much since she still tells us her motive, but that's retcon by alteration since something different happened than what was previously established however subtle it may be.

Actually the pointing of the arm canon at the Metroid is more logical since she was told to destroy all the Metroids, the fact she didn't clearly indicates an emotional response as seen in various other forms of fiction when the protagonist spares the life of someone or something. I'd say it makes it MORE clear she felt something for the hatchling, not less. It is clear the sacrifice of the Hatchling was meant to evoke an emotional response, that should tell you everything you need to know especially since the music shifted to a more somber tone when it died until the Mother brain was defeated, until justice was dealt leading to the final escape sequence where the music picks up again.  That in itself shows me that the director of Super Metroid was intending to link the player and in turn Samus to the Metroid on an emotional level.

Let's also not forget in the opening sequence the hatchling is likened to a small child. Indicating that the reasoning for giving it to be studied could be more for its safety then anything, because it would NOT be safe with her. Not to mention when Riddley takes the hatchling you are kind of on a typical rescue mission of sorts as seen in various other Nintendo games where the given motivation is to rescue someone the protagonist cares about.

Oh yeah and from the man himself (but I guess he is a big fat liar):

"With Fusion, that game was very story-driven. In that game, I believe I was able to explain Samus as a character, as a person, not just somebody in armor. And I was not only explaining Samus but the characters around her… with Super Metroid I showed, through her relationship with the baby Metroid, some of her maternal instincts. Between those two stories I feel I was able to explain Samus as a person. But because Metroid equals Samus, I'd like to develop her character further, as a soldier, as a human, also as a woman. That's what they're hoping to do with Other M."

Taken from the Kotaku Interview with Sakamoto. Case closed, though no doubt people will say is being dishonest and that wasn't his intention, I mean we the gamers know more about what is going on then the creator right?  One reason why I fell in love with Super Metroid was the subtle, yet dramatic and emotional elements woven in. It is unique even to this day.

Found a great article on the subject too:

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/column/111831-asserting-femininity-in-super-metroid/

[MegaByte]

I think the voice acting is fine in the opening clip I saw. She sounds like I would expect a female Boba Fett to sound which is fitting. Sure she may be dealing with an emotional dilemma but that's not going to make her change into a super emotional person in a second. She may not ever become super emotional so keeping the voice more even and controlled like that seems to work great.

It's not just that; it sounds like she's reading a script... poorly.  The timing is all wrong.  The problem is amplified later (not shown here) when she starts talking about the baby again.

[KDR_11k]

Case closed, though no doubt people will say is being dishonest and that wasn't his intention, I mean we the gamers know more about what is going on then the creator right?  One reason why I fell in love with Super Metroid was the subtle, yet dramatic and emotional elements woven in. It is unique even to this day.

It doesn't matter what the creator intended, it matters what the player perceives.

[SixthAngel]

I can't believe people are complaing that Samus has boobs omg.  If you were going to complain about any sort or sexualizing of the series the time to complain was the Zero suit.  They actually gave her a skin tight, form fitting suit.  Here they just did a redesign of her and it looks heaps better than the craptastic model in corruption.

It doesn't matter what the creator intended, it matters what the player perceives.

Some players obviously perceived what the author says.  I always thought Samus and the Metroid had a connection.

What the author intends does in fact matter when continuing the story though.  He or she cannot write the story from what the player thinks, they can only write it from what they think.