Topic: Radio Free Nintendo: Episode 146

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well from what I understand most are happy with it. It would be nice to see sales numbers though! The only source that we have is VGchartz, which Matt Cass. said is pretty accurate.

[gojira]

My top three WiiWare games.

1. Lost Winds - The only problem with the game is how short it is, other than that I loved it.
2. World of Goo
3. Mega Man 9 - I'm not a huge fan of the series, but the idea of a neo-retro title blew me away.

I own five other WiiWare games, but I don't think they're that amazing.  They are Lit, Toki Tori, Tetris Party, Dr. Mario and Gyrostarr.  Lit and Toki Tori are both kinda similar in that they're puzzle/adventure type games.  I got through about 2/3rds of each before they lost their fun for me.  I'd only recommend them to fans of the genre.  I got Tetris more for my girlfriend who does play it a good deal.  I thought she might also like Dr. Mario, but I guess not.  I never play either game since I basically got my fill in many of the previous iterations.  I definitely regret getting Gyrostarr.  It's not a terrible game, but it does get boring quickly.  It looked a lot like N2O (a game I loved on PSone), but it doesn't compare. 

There are a handful of WiiWare games I do want to get (Orbient comes to mind), but I tend to spend that money on VC games or retail releases.

The only other game I've seen advertised in magazines (Nintendo Power) is Evasive Space.

[ShyGuy]

Man, Lindy and Galaxy. Galaxy and Lindy...

[Crimm]

I don't know how much of Jon and Greg's "chat" on Galaxy made the podcast, I haven't listened yet, but wow.

[NWR_Lindy]

<shrug>

Greg was correct in that my statement about playing so many Marios was pure hyperbole.  But I maintain that Galaxy isn't branching out enough past the tried-and-true formula of the other two games to REALLY impress me.  I'll grant that I haven't seen too much of the game yet, but what I've seen has been utterly predictable so far.

[GoldenPhoenix]

<shrug>

Greg was correct in that my statement about playing so many Marios was pure hyperbole.  But I maintain that Galaxy isn't branching out enough past the tried-and-true formula of the other two games to REALLY impress me.  I'll grant that I haven't seen too much of the game yet, but what I've seen has been utterly predictable so far.

That is EXACTLY what I was thinking, although it applied to some recent games in a certain other genre.

Seriously it is WAY too early to pass judgment on Mario Galaxy after 20 stars. Also the gravitational and planetoid feature adds a brand new layor to the game and you will NOT find a experience like it elsewhere.

[broodwars]

<shrug>

Greg was correct in that my statement about playing so many Marios was pure hyperbole.  But I maintain that Galaxy isn't branching out enough past the tried-and-true formula of the other two games to REALLY impress me.  I'll grant that I haven't seen too much of the game yet, but what I've seen has been utterly predictable so far.

That is EXACTLY what I was thinking, although it applied to some recent games in a certain other genre.

Seriously it is WAY too early to pass judgment on Mario Galaxy after 20 stars. Also the gravitational and planetoid feature adds a brand new layor to the game and you will NOT find a experience like it elsewhere.

This is actually quite true.  While I'm not that hot on Mario Galaxy, the game gets dramatically better around 50-60 stars when you start really delving into the Comet Stars (especially the Purple Coin Challenged, which tend to be lovely little challenging obstacle courses).  It's actually quite amusing that the game gets dramtically better after you get enough stars to beat it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Mario Galaxy is basically unrestrained in what they could do and I think they took advantage of it. It didn't have to really stick to a certain theme beyond "planets in outerspace". They took the open formula and ran with it as can be seen in later levels, some things may have been a miss but there are more that were tremendous hits.

[Sundoulos]

My only regret with Mario Galaxy was that they didn't use the Buoy Base music more often.

Well, Mario Galaxy is really the same formula with different play mechanics and a much, much prettier wrapper.  I love it, but I can see why other people might be jaded with it, really.  I lost interest in Mario Sunshine as much because it was too similar to 64, only with an annoying (IHMO) game mechanic with additional collect-a-thon options added.  At the very least, Galaxy gets my kudos because they streamlined a lot of that. 

And...Galaxy...well, I just love it because of the setting, the gravity field mechanics, and the neat musical score.  Playing it gave me the same feeling I had as a kid playing Super Mario Bros. 3 when I first encountered a Koopaling airship. 

I'm not sure how they would really change the formula too much, though, without taking away the other elements that make it feel like a Mario game.  Mario platforming has always been about just getting from point A to point B, whether it's getting to a goalpost, a key or a star.

And...please, Nintendo.  Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, let Bowser Jr. go the way of the Koopalings.  Feel free to bring the Koopalings back if you want, though.

[Mop it up]

I didn't really care for the comet stars in Super Mario Galaxy, they felt tacked-on because most of them involved completing a task you had already done with a time limit or with one-hit-dead. Great game otherwise though.

And...please, Nintendo.  Please, for the love of all that's good and holy, let Bowser Jr. go the way of the Koopalings.  Feel free to bring the Koopalings back if you want, though.

I couldn't agree more. Any one of the seven Koopalings has more personality and is less annoying than Bowser Jr. But I don't think Bowser Jr. is going anywhere, he has appeared in far too many games for that.

[NWR_Lindy]

I'm not looking for them to change the formula.  I'd just like them to extend it somehow, and yes, that most likely includes some online functionality.  It'd be amazing to play through the game co-op with somebody as Luigi, for example.  To me, that would be a "Holy ****" addition that would get me interested.  Maybe for a sequel, but I doubt it.  Nintendo is pretty conservative with its big franchises...they tend to save all of their experiments for new IP.

[ShyGuy]

Sadly, the 3D platformer is a next to dead genre. Mario Galaxy is the only title moving it forward.

I can appreciate what Lindy is saying on an abstract level. He probably get's the same thrill playing Galaxy that I would playing Starcraft 2. Very little.

[NWR_Lindy]

I'm not saying it's a bad game.  It's amazing, and probably the best 3D platformer ever released.  But I feel like I've done what it ask me to do two times over already, which makes me lose interest.

Mario Kart Wii and SSBB had the new hook of playing online.  If they didn't have that, I'd probably feel the same way about them.

[NWR_insanolord]

It's amazing, and probably the best 3D platformer ever released.

As long as we agree on this there's no problem.

[NWR_Lindy]

I just expect more from Mario and Zelda (i.e. I hold them to a higher standard), and I feel like those series are treading water at this point.  In spectacular fashion mind you, but treading water nonetheless.

[NWR_DrewMG]

I don't disagree, Lindy, but I still think that Greg has a point when he says that most of the FPSes released in the last 5 years fall under the same umbrella.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I don't disagree, Lindy, but I still think that Greg has a point when he says that most of the FPSes released in the last 5 years fall under the same umbrella.

Most FPS games from a single player standpoint are still pretty much following the same formula Half-Life created back in 1998. Which would be fine if there weren't a truck load of FPS games released each year. The online aspect has evolved (though I do not think rewarding people who play the most so they can kill people easier is a good innovation), especially in games like the Battlefield series. Even at that though a lot of what we see in regards to online modes are pretty minimal evolutions of Half-Life deathmatch or the various mods released for it like Team Fortress, or Counter-Strike.

[Jonnyboy117]

This is really apropos of the new episode, which you guys haven't heard yet, but I want to type it so I don't forget it...

Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.

[NWR_insanolord]

This is really apropos of the new episode, which you guys haven't heard yet, but I want to type it so I don't forget it...

Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.

I'm trying to keep my expectations for E3 low to avoid disapointment and that didn't help.

[GoldenPhoenix]

This is really apropos of the new episode, which you guys haven't heard yet, but I want to type it so I don't forget it...

Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.

That would be very cool

[broodwars]

This is really apropos of the new episode, which you guys haven't heard yet, but I want to type it so I don't forget it...

Today I realized how awesome a new on-rails Star Fox could be with four-player online co-op. (One person plays Fox, another Falco, etc.) Finally, you could talk back to your squad-mates and actually do something strategic with them.

That would be very cool

Yeah, it would be so long as you could still play the game competently solo as well.  Wouldn't want a repeat of Resident Evil 5's idiotic Sheva AI during offline play (which really hurts the experience), would we?

[NWR_Lindy]

In terms of FPSes vs. 3D platformers, I agree that the core FPS formula remains unchanged (but I mean, it's a genre, just like puzzle games or fighting games, so the genre tropes will always be there).  However, if you look at Super Mario 64 in 1996, the big FPS that came out in 1996 was Quake.  Compare Quake to the FPSes today and it's like night and day.  Yes, you're still walking around shooting people in 3D levels, but you have co-op online and offline, massive numbers of people fighting together at the same time (64, 256, etc.), a boatload of stat tracking, RPG-style character outfitting and experience-point leveling, downloadable levels, the ability to record movies of your gameplay and send them to others, the ability to create and trade levels (a big deal in console shooters), and some stories that are actually decent.  The featureset in today's top-tier first-person shooters has increased by several orders of magnitude.  This is mainly out of necessity, since FPSes have flooded the market so developers needed something to set their games apart, but that's the way it's unfolded.

When you compare Super Mario 64 to Super Mario Galaxy, the featureset hasn't expanded that much.  Not that it has to - Galaxy is undoubtedly an amazing achievement - but when I speak of my initial "meh" reaction to the game this is a primary reason.  It's certainly a very innovative game, but I feel like it's innovative within the boundaries of the 1996 formula.  It doesn't expand that formula into other areas like co-op (the ability to have one person use the Wii Remote isn't true co-op in my opinion, and is more of a neat bonus), or any sort of online play.  That's what I mean when I say that I feel like I've seen Super Mario Galaxy before.  It's because there isn't anything in the game that I feel is 100% new or groundbreaking; it's just the old formula executed to absolute perfection.  And that's awesome, but I think it'll be appreciated more by gamers that haven't played Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Sunshine, so that newness is still there.

[NWR_insanolord]

If we'd gotten as many platformers in the last decade as we've gotten FPSs there'd be that kind of innovation in the genre. Sadly the genre is next to nonexistant outside of Nintendo these days, especially the 3D variety.


EDIT: I just realized that Lindy's reaction to Galaxy is basically the same as my reaction to Super Mario World.

[Jonnyboy117]

Yeah, it would be so long as you could still play the game competently solo as well.  Wouldn't want a repeat of Resident Evil 5's idiotic Sheva AI during offline play (which really hurts the experience), would we?

I don't think Star Fox friendly AI could get much worse.

[NWR_Lindy]

If we'd gotten as many platformers in the last decade as we've gotten FPSs there'd be that kind of innovation in the genre. Sadly the genre is next to nonexistant outside of Nintendo these days, especially the 3D variety.

Totally agree.

EDIT: I just realized that Lindy's reaction to Galaxy is basically the same as my reaction to Super Mario World.

Do you mean in comparison to Super Mario Bros. 3?  I can see that.  I didn't buy Super Mario Bros. 3 when it was released (in fact, I've never beaten it), but I played the heck out of Super Mario World.  When I went back to play SMB3 when it came to VC, I couldn't believe how similar it was to SMW.  It felt like I was playing SMW all over again.