Topic: I have computer related questions. Can you help?

[TheBlackCat]

I'm not saying it should stop you from doing things, just that if you are going to be recovering the files then doing a virus scan on top of that can't hurt.  Even if a virus wasn't the cause of the problem, it is still a good opportunity to do a check under controlled conditions.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I need some quick advice and help from you guys.

I've just been offered a chance to build a computer & a server for a small business and network all the computers together for a pretty good price.

Question I have since I've never built a server and have only networked my own computers at home, is what do I need to know about servers?
How are they different from a regular computer? Do I need a different motherboard?

Also creating a VPN (Virtual Private Network). I know there is eventually gonna be a need for over the internet networking and if I could set up his network to support it from the start then that would be a huge plus for me.

Please help. ASAP.

[TheBlackCat]

Technically any computer can act as a computer as long as it has the correct software, it depends on the company's needs.  Specialized server hardware is available, I think it gives benefits like integrated hardware firewalls, modularity and scalability, and faster networking performance.  It also depends on the operating system they want to use.  Linux is by far the best for servers, but if they are intent on using windows then you have additional security concerns and to worry about and it may limit your processor options.  It also depends on the networking services they want.  Is it only VPN, or do they want file sharing as well?  What VPN software are they planning to use?  Will the server serve files, and if so what protocol do they want to use and will it only do so with local computer or will it need to do so with computers on other networks?  If the latter, how do they want to do the authentication?  Do they want to support single sign-on for all computers on the network?  What operating systems do they need to support on client computer?  None of these are serious concerns on desktop systems since generally desktop operating system interact well over networks, but I think they make more of a difference with servers.

I am not an expert on servers, I have never set one up myself, but I have done considerable research on specific issues of relevance to me so I might be able to offer advice on certain issues if I know more about the constraints you are facing.

[BlackNMild2k1]

It's only for 3 people and 3 computers in the office, but there may be some working from home at times that would need access to the network.
It's a small business and I my girl just started working for this guy so she recommended me to build and setup an inner office network for him instead of paying some schmuck $1200+ to network them for him.

They will mostly be using programs like PeachTree (for Payroll) & Quickbooks for accounting and need to have up to date records regardless of what computer is being used at the time. He mentioned wanting a server, but I don't know if he knows what that means as I could probably just set up the main computer with a backup drive and network all that other computers to that one.

I figure if I do it that way I can just use a regular wireless router and just plug everything in and do remote access from there to gain remote access to the network instead of a VPN tunnel using a much more expensive router.
(If it sounds like I know what I'm talking about, then.... HAHA I fooled you. because I feel like I'm just talking out of my ass right now & it's late and I'm sleepy)

I'm sure a simple windows based computer with a single log-on to the network (only 3 people will be accessing it mostly from within the office), but I don't have all the details since i haven't talked to the owner myself yet.  The job is basically mine and I would like to do a good job especially since it will be my first time playing IT for someone other than myself, close friend or family member, so I really appreciate any help you can give.

[TheBlackCat]

I could probably just set up the main computer with a backup drive and network all that other computers to that one.

So they need a file server.  And it sounds like they will only want to serve files to computers on the local network (VPN computers are essentially part of the local network so I am not differentiating the two from this regard).

I figure if I do it that way I can just use a regular wireless router and just plug everything in and do remote access from there to gain remote access to the network instead of a VPN tunnel using a much more expensive router.

A wireless router will only work so long as people are in range, which they wouldn't be.  You would need a VPN tunnel no matter what.  The question, though, is why you need a router to begin with.  For the price of 4-port router you could get an 8 or maybe even 16-port switch and use the computer as the router.  That would be slightly more difficult, but a lot cheaper.  It is easy to do under Linux but I don't know how to do it under windows, you may need the windows server edition which I am not familiar with.

I'm sure a simple windows based computer with a single log-on to the network (only 3 people will be accessing it mostly from within the office), but I don't have all the details since i haven't talked to the owner myself yet.

As I said, it doesn't really matter from that perspective whether you use windows or Linux, since they both support the same file-sharing protocols.  But Linux is more reliable, more secure, easier to maintain, cheaper up front (free), and lower costs long-term.  However, not all software necessarily runs on it (although most enterprise-level software does nowadays since a lot of companies are switching mission-critical systems to Linux).

[BlackNMild2k1]

I was thinking a router since there may be laptops brought into the office that would need access without having to physically plug in.

but those laptops(& home PC's) are the same reason why I was thinking VPN access so they could do some work from home or on the road.

[bustin98]

There's a couple of different ways you can go. First, you can have a simple file server PC or you can do a full blown Small Business Server. Doing programs like Quickbooks and Peachtree, VNC is the way to go either way as you'd have to connect to a mapped network drive. Doing Small Business Server, you could do Exchange Server and also manage users and their access to the network (a bit of an overkill for 3 people). A server is just a computer that serves data to other computers. No special hardware or setup to qualify a PC as a server other than the sharing. What you will want to consider is how the data is backed up. I recommend a Raid1 for backup in case of hardware failure and another drive for daily backups.

Logmein is also an alternate way to work from anywhere if the user's computer is left on (for those not on a laptop).

Remember to get enough licenses for the accounting programs to cover all the computers that will be using it, though thats probably already done.

[TheBlackCat]

I don't think VNC is the way to go, I am pretty sure the professional versions of those programs already support accessing the data stored on a server from within the program's own interface.  There is likely a server version of the program that manages the data and client versions that access the data from the server version. 

As for more general file-sharing, connecting to a mapped network drive is not really any harder for the users than VNC and the former is much faster and more flexible.  So I am not sure what benefit VNC would give them. 

I also agree that an exchange server is overkill, and RAID is good for storage.

[bustin98]

VNC for the outside the network users, not inside. For those laptops when at home.

[TheBlackCat]

Why wouldn't they just use VPN?

[BlackNMild2k1]

VNC = Virtual Network Connection?

what the difference between VNC & VPN?

& I've never really understood what RAID was even though my computers both support RAID 0&1 or something like that.
Anyone care to explain?

[TheBlackCat]

Vnc is a system that allows you to share a desktop over a network, so you can see your screen from one computer in a window on a different one.  So it is totally unrelated to VPN.

There are different types of RAID, but what RAID1 means is, in short, that you have two or more hard drives that contain the exact same data.  Any data written to one is written to the other, any data deleted from one is deleted from the other, and so on.  That means if one fails you still have a complete copy of all of your files.  There isn't even a primary and secondary hard drive, they are both identical in every way and are seen as a single disk by the operating system.  It doesn't help with viruses or user error or anything like that, but it does help with hard drive crashes and other hard drive hardware failures.

[bustin98]

Derr.. I meant VPN, not VNC. Don't know why I was typing that. Multiple times even.

Wiki has a good article explaining RAID, though its still a bit dry.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I think TheBlackCat explained it well enough. It makes sense now.

So VNC is like LogMeIn, right?
Speaking of LogMeIn, my girl is trying to install it on one of her work computers and it keeps saying she needs a proxy to install the software.
Why would she need a proxy to install software?

[bustin98]

Haven't had that issue. Since its at work, maybe there is a firewall, or they are using a proxy (network server) to access the web.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I just got back from their office and i spent the last 4 hours trying to get an XP machine and a Win7 machine to network with each other to share files and the printer(hooked up to the XP machine).

I was unsuccessful, but I got the Win7 Machine to finally see the XP machine even though it couldn't access it. But it was late so I gave up.... I had been dazing starting at about 1.5 hours in after trying to figure out why Quickbooks couldn't access the internet and LogMeIn needed a proxy.

There were no viruses according to MS Onecare, the windows firewall had the program as an exception and I saw no virus protection software of any kind on the computer. They were also using a 2wire modem/switch/wireless router box from AT&T that both computers were directly plugged into. Win7 had no problems with either software mentioned above, but XP was not allowing it.

Any suggestions?

[TheBlackCat]

First things first, get virusscan software NOW.  Not having virus software on a windows computer is, frankly, insane. 

Second, are both computers fully up-to-date in terms of windows patches and service packs?

Can one of the computers talk to the other, or is blocked both ways? 

Have you tried pinging the IP address of one computer from the other? 

Have you tried directly connecting the two computers to each other?  If they are both using gigabit network cards that should be possible. 

Is the router firmware up-to-date?  Can you get AT&T to rent you a newer model?  Can both computers connect to the internet?  You are going to need a 4-port router at the very least anyway, perhaps you can go ahead and get it now and see if that works better.

Are you sure the passwords are set up correctly?

What if you connect the printer to the Win 7 box instead?  Does that change anything?

[BlackNMild2k1]

WinXP is fully up to date SP3

Win 7 can see the XP computer but can't communicate with it.
XP does not see the Win 7 computer

I'm not 100% sure how to ping the IP address, but I did type the address of each computer into the other ones browser.
no luck.
I did not try connecting them directly, but they are both plugged into the same AT&T 4port Ethernet(wireless)Router/switch and show up as part of the same network when in the router software.
When trying to view the shared content of each computer from the router software, only the Win7 will load the shared folder when viewing from the Win7 computer, WinXP will not load anything and errors.

There is something wrong with the XP machine as it denies internet access to quickbooks even though IE works fine and it won't let you install LogMeIn because it ask for a proxy. As far as I could tell it was only using Windows FireWall and I made sure Quickbooks had all the exceptions it could possibly need, but it was late so I didn't exhaust every possibilty like turning the firewall off to see if that was even the problem.*

The owner now wants me to upgrade his XP machine(max it out) and probably install Win7 on it, but I'm thinking he should just get a another new computer and transfer over the old quickbook files and wipe that old HDD and use it for backup instead. It would make everything so much easier.


*The "owner" that uses that computer has been caught browsing porn and my guess is that there is a trojan or worse buried somewhere on the computer (there is no virus software afterall) that is blocking things.

I'm going back tonite(earlier than last nite), so I will put AVG on there and see if I can connect the printer to the Win7 machine.

[bustin98]

Ping is easy. Goto Run -> type CMD to open a command window -> type PING [IP ADDRESS] or conical name: PING www.yahoo.com
It will give 4 attempts to 'ping' the address, returning a message of success or failure. Success will come with how long each communication took in milliseconds.

Scan the computer with Spybot and Adaware along with AVG. Seems they all have their own set of viruses and programs that they see. HijackThis is also a decent program that will show you inconsistencies in the Registry and hidden installed programs. It won't remove programs, just delete lines in the registry. But you can make note of them and remove them yourself.

Try winsockfix if you have issues connecting to the Internet. It resets all the protocols to factory default. It may clear up the proxy issue too.

In Windows 7, try adding the name of the XP computer to the user list. Try mapping a network drive too. Don't browse for it, just type the name of the computer followed by the name of the shared folder. \\COMPUTER NAME\FOLDER Sometimes specifying the computer name will kick it into gear.

=================================================================================================
============================= Ignore this if you are using a gigabit network card ==============================
=================================================================================================
If you connect computers directly you need to use a cross cat5, not a straight. There are 4 pairs of wires in a cat5:
Orange
Orange/White
Green
Green/White
Blue
Blue/White
Brown
Brown/White

In a straight wire, the sequence is (both ends) in an RJ45 connector: OW O GW B BW G BrW Br
Crossed: GW G OW B BW O  BrW Br - OW O GW B BW G BrW Br
Cat5 is also called a patch cable, that term may be more familiar to you, but a patch cable can also refer to the cable that connects a phone to the wall jack. So a cat5 (category 5) is more specific in terms of shielding and number of pairs. Lots more info on this subject out there, but this is enough to get you through most situations.
=================================================================================================
========================================= End ignore this ============================================
=================================================================================================

If you upgrade the XP machine to Win7 make sure it have plenty of RAM. At least 2GB if not more. Too many XP machines out there only have 256MB of RAM. But I agree with your assessment that a new computer made specifically for Win7 is the ideal.

[MegaByte]

If you connect computers directly you need to use a straight cat5, not a crossed.

This is backwards.  Crossover is needed for computer to computer, and the sequence of wires at each end is crossed (hence the name).

[TheBlackCat]

If you connect computers directly you need to use a straight cat5, not a crossed. There are 4 pairs of wires in a cat5:

It shouldn't matter, gigabit network cards are supposed to automatically detect whether they are using ordinary cat5 or crossover cable and and change their behavior accordingly.

[bustin98]

I did not know the gigabit cards would auto negotiate crossed or straight.

But I did have a situation where some fool created a network on cable where there were two computers on one network cable. That's fine for 100 base, but when I replaced the 100base switch for a 1000base switch, the cards did not stay at 100, which is the most the cabling would support. I had to specify at each PC the speed to run at. Just saying the auto-negotiate is not a fool proof method and not to be trusted at all times.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Well they are taking my advice and ditching the jacked up XP computer for a new Win 7 computer since parts and labor for upgrading and reinstalling would probably cost the same either way.

So I think I'm gonna go network the two computers later tonite and copy over the important info that they need off of it.

[BlackNMild2k1]

new problem, different computer.

I get Norton for free through Comcast and for a while now Norton Anti-Virus (my anti-virus software) & Windows Security has been telling me that I don't have any virus protection on the computer.

so I've contacted Norton about this since the program was obviously not working right, even after several installs (and I've had this problem on atleast 3 different computers) and they took remote control and got the program working again.

Now my computer started blue screening and after another tech remote take-over about a week ago, my computer will no longer boot up.

I've booted it up in safe mode and ran a Norton scan(since that's all I have...) and it found 66 issues during the scan before it froze.

So my question is, can I remove that HDD and stick it into another computer to scan safely or would that infect the other computer (where Norton is working fine) just by being attached? Should I just partition the drive and try to install Win7 on it or would I need to fix the HDD first?

[TheBlackCat]

There is a very serious chance it will infect the other computer as well.  I strongly recommend against connecting to any other windows computer, in fact I would disconnect any ethernet cables connected to it since it could spread the infection over the network and/or might be used as part of a botnet. 

I will give you the same advice I gave mop it up: get a Linux livecd like parted magic that has virus scan software built-in and do the scan from there. That is the only safe way to do it.  Well, you could also install Linux on a second partition, install it on an external hard drive, or use Linux from a live USB, but those are all more difficult options.  But doing the virus scan from Linux is the only safe way to do it (or you could use another non-windows OS, but Os X costs a lot and can't be installed on most hardware and other Unix-like oses have no real advantage over linux).