Topic: The Conduit's Looking Good

[GoldenPhoenix]

That they put a lot of work into the game does not negate the fact that they have done nothing to distinguish this game from any other FPS on the market.

Once again the All Seeing Eye is a distinguishing feature, it will all depend on how it is integrated in regards to puzzles, exploration etc. To say it does "nothing" to distinguish itself is an exaggeration. Oh yeah, not to mention it is perhaps the most customizable FPS console game ever with on the run tweaking of the controls.

This game is a PERFECT example of why Nintendo fans do NOT know what they want. HIgh Voltage has bent over backwards to give fans what they wanted, yet it still isn't good enough because "It lacks archaic split screen multiplayer" or because "it is too generic".  Now I know why so many companies ignore most fan requests, they realize fans can be clueless and will never be happy.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Moral of the story.

[Dirk Temporo]

archaic split screen multiplayer

Pretend there's a big angry face here. A REALLY big one. And it's REALLY angry.

[broodwars]

This game is a PERFECT example of why Nintendo fans do NOT know what they want. HIgh Voltage has bent over backwards to give fans what they wanted, yet it still isn't good enough because "It lacks archaic split screen multiplayer" or because "it is too generic".  Now I know why so many companies ignore most fan requests, they realize fans can be clueless and will never be happy.

Just because people don't want a generic FPS does not mean that "Nintendo fans do NOT know what they want."  It means they don't want a generic FPS.  That High Voltage provided a generic FPS anyway is all on them.  As I said, I applaud their enthusiasm but denounce their lack of inventiveness.  It's not good enough to make a polished game that's just like every other of its kind, just that it actually works on Wii.

Let me put it this way: if this game were announced for any other console instead of just being Wii-exclusive, would anyone give a damn?  That's my point.

[GoldenPhoenix]

archaic split screen multiplayer

Pretend there's a big angry face here. A REALLY big one. And it's REALLY angry.

Lol. Hey I like split screen multiplayer, but it is viewed as being outdated now or at the very least on its way out. The way I see it though I'll be playing the Conduit with my friends from NWR so it really doesn't bother me much.

[GoldenPhoenix]

This game is a PERFECT example of why Nintendo fans do NOT know what they want. HIgh Voltage has bent over backwards to give fans what they wanted, yet it still isn't good enough because "It lacks archaic split screen multiplayer" or because "it is too generic".  Now I know why so many companies ignore most fan requests, they realize fans can be clueless and will never be happy.

Just because people don't want a generic FPS does not mean that "Nintendo fans do NOT know what they want."  It means they don't want a generic FPS.  That High Voltage provided a generic FPS anyway is all on them.  As I said, I applaud their enthusiasm but denounce their lack of inventiveness.  It's not good enough to make a polished game that's just like every other of its kind, just that it actually works on Wii.

Let me put it this way: if this game were announced for any other console instead of just being Wii-exclusive, would anyone give a damn?  That's my point.

No because I hate FPS games that use dual analog controls.

[Enner]

Let me put it this way: if this game were announced for any other console instead of just being Wii-exclusive, would anyone give a damn?  That's my point.

Amusingly enough, I think that's the developer's actual sentiments. High Voltage is said to have said that if The Conduit was for the PS3, 360, or PC, then nobody would care.

I guess its a bit disappointing that the developer is enthusiastic over something that is only "barely good enough" from an genre-wide perspective. Still, at least someone is making an effort for the genre to have more representation on the Wii.

[broodwars]

Let me put it this way: if this game were announced for any other console instead of just being Wii-exclusive, would anyone give a damn?  That's my point.

Amusingly enough, I think that's the developer's actual sentiments. High Voltage is said to have said that if The Conduit was for the PS3, 360, or PC, then nobody would care.

I guess its a bit disappointing that the developer is enthusiastic over something that is only "barely good enough" from an genre-wide perspective. Still, at least someone is making an effort for the genre to have more representation on the Wii.

And this is symptomatic of a much larger problem with the Wii "traditional gamer" fanbase: we have gotten so pitifully used to a barrage of bad gaming experiences on Wii from developers who just don't give a damn that we've been conditioned to accept "just good enough."  Why is this acceptable?  We have the most successful gaming platform of this generation, and it uses the most sophisticated interface device we've ever seen in gaming.  We should be beyond "oh, it's good enough."  We should DEMAND excellence and originality because we as gamers deserve it, and not just give a pass to any flawed product that crosses our path just because it was well-intentioned and everything else is horrible by comparison.

[KDR_11k]

Maybe they should advertise what makes The Conduit different from other FPSes rather than simply advertise "yay, a bumpmapped FPS!". Yeah, it's probably not more generic than any other FPS on the other platforms but they're advertising it as generic. Other FPSes try to advertise what little change they have.

[broodwars]

Maybe they should advertise what makes The Conduit different from other FPSes rather than simply advertise "yay, a bumpmapped FPS!". Yeah, it's probably not more generic than any other FPS on the other platforms but they're advertising it as generic. Other FPSes try to advertise what little change they have.

Indeed, the Conduit needs to find its selling point and get that out to us.  I'm not against buying the game.  I'm just waiting for High Voltage to give me that reason.  Let's look at a similar example with Timesplitters 3: it's hard to think of a more generic FPS, as there's nothing about it gameplay-wise that makes it stick out aside from the level-editor and all the multiplayer options.  When Free Radical marketed the game, though, they found their angle: they advertised the humor and sheer absurdity of the situations.  And you know what?  I bought the game for that and enjoyed it immensely.  High Voltage needs to find its angle with this game other than the graphics and controls.  The story could be an angle, but they'd need to show it's more than just the typical "government conspiracy with ALIENS!" thing.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

lol, story, in an FPS, more lols.

I'm looking for the first third party Wii FPS THAT WORKS.  Smooth, responsive visuals that are in-tune with Wii's unparalleled control scheme:  1) it's not dual-analog, 2) doesn't require desk/mouse/keyboard setup

The beginning of the future of couch-person-shooters.

I want third parties to show me they can master the core fundamentals, which has shown to be their greatest challenge, not their attempt at a new plot or implementation of a movie license--those failures are set in stone.

[broodwars]

lol, story, in an FPS, more lols.

Bioshock says "hello".

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

1)  it's dual-analog
2)  or it requires desk/mouse/keyboard setup
3)  who cares

Bring up something that's actually current-gen next time.

edit: Games are toys.  There's gotta be more than a "good" "story" and "shiny" packaging for me to revisit these toys.

[broodwars]

1)  it's dual-analog
2)  or it requires desk/mouse/keyboard setup
3)  who cares

Bring up something that's actually current-gen next time.

Got to love how you just dance around the issue when someone picks apart your argument.  How you play the game has no impact on whether or not there is a story.  And by the way, Bioshock is a current-gen game, having been made for the Xbox 360 and ported to the PC and PS3.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The implication was story is not a big deal (see last 2 poasts), where other aspects have greater significance in consumer reponse.

Bioshock is a game made for "modern" graphics hardware, played on (last-gen)^3 control interfaces.  The Conduit, in contrast, has a next-generation interface.

People like to bring up Halo and Goldeneye as successful games.  Somehow, the extreme fondness expressed for these titles doesn't revolve around their stories!

edit:  what's a good story?  i don't know, they're all so-so without splitting hairs inside the genre by itself.

[broodwars]

The implication was story is not a big deal (see last 2 poasts), where other aspects have greater significance in consumer reponse.

Bioshock is a game made for "modern" graphics hardware, played on (last-gen)^3 control interfaces.  The Conduit, in contrast, has a next-generation interface.

People like to bring up Halo and Goldeneye as successful games.  Somehow, the extreme fondness expressed for these titles doesn't revolve around their stories!

Funny, but it seems to be that the general consensus was that Bioshock's biggest flaw was trying to be an FPS in the first place, as its story and unique style got somewhat short-changed by having to follow FPS conventions.

As for the issue of control interfaces, I don't care if The Conduit uses a "next-generation interface" if the game itself is less compelling and less unique than a game like Bioshock that uses a "(last-gen)^3 control interface".  Let's look at another First Person game as well: Mirror's Edge.  Now, for the sake of Full Disclosure note that I have only played about 1 hour of the game, as I played my copy at work while I await the arrival of my PS3 on Friday.  Whatever Mirror's Edge's faults, though, there is next-generation design in that game played through a "last-generation" interface (the 360/PS3 controller).  However generic Mirror's Edge is from a story perspective, though, that game brings its own unique qualities to the genre in how the game immerses you in the experience and makes First Person Platforming almost instinctive.  The game is severely flawed when it comes to Trial and Error gameplay, but at the very least I can say there's no other game on the market like it.  I see nothing of the kind of in The Conduit.

Halo and Goldeneye are remembered for being awesome multiplayer experiences, because the FPS is a genre that caters well to multiplayer/party gaming.  The Conduit's going to have to work rather hard to accomplish that as well.

[NWR_Lindy]

Sexual Chocolate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoS8j9eNMZU

I meant that the trailer was the equivalent of walking out on stage, yelliing, "Wii First Person Shooter!", dropping the mic, and walking off like that's all you had to say.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Let me put it this way: if this game were announced for any other console instead of just being Wii-exclusive, would anyone give a damn?  That's my point.

Amusingly enough, I think that's the developer's actual sentiments. High Voltage is said to have said that if The Conduit was for the PS3, 360, or PC, then nobody would care.

I guess its a bit disappointing that the developer is enthusiastic over something that is only "barely good enough" from an genre-wide perspective. Still, at least someone is making an effort for the genre to have more representation on the Wii.

And this is symptomatic of a much larger problem with the Wii "traditional gamer" fanbase: we have gotten so pitifully used to a barrage of bad gaming experiences on Wii from developers who just don't give a damn that we've been conditioned to accept "just good enough."  Why is this acceptable?  We have the most successful gaming platform of this generation, and it uses the most sophisticated interface device we've ever seen in gaming.  We should be beyond "oh, it's good enough."  We should DEMAND excellence and originality because we as gamers deserve it, and not just give a pass to any flawed product that crosses our path just because it was well-intentioned and everything else is horrible by comparison.

Once again, The All Seeing Eye. We'll see how it works. Also I don't think I "deserve" anything game related, talk about a selfish attitude. I take that back, many gamers deserve to be dropped on their head from some building.

Halo and Goldeneye are remembered for being awesome multiplayer experiences, because the FPS is a genre that caters well to multiplayer/party gaming.  The Conduit's going to have to work rather hard to accomplish that as well.

Care to share with us how Conduit's multiplayer is? You seem to already know enough about it to condemn it, I'd love to know!

Also Goldeneye was remembered because it was really the first really well made FPS on consoles and set the standard for the genre.

Oh yeah Mirror's Edge is NOT a FPS, in fact the game can be beaten by not shooting anyone. It is a hybrid something like Metroid Prime was. If you want to make a fair comparison compare it to:

COD series
Halo series
Half-Life series
Etc

[broodwars]

Let me put it this way: if this game were announced for any other console instead of just being Wii-exclusive, would anyone give a damn?  That's my point.

Amusingly enough, I think that's the developer's actual sentiments. High Voltage is said to have said that if The Conduit was for the PS3, 360, or PC, then nobody would care.

I guess its a bit disappointing that the developer is enthusiastic over something that is only "barely good enough" from an genre-wide perspective. Still, at least someone is making an effort for the genre to have more representation on the Wii.

And this is symptomatic of a much larger problem with the Wii "traditional gamer" fanbase: we have gotten so pitifully used to a barrage of bad gaming experiences on Wii from developers who just don't give a damn that we've been conditioned to accept "just good enough."  Why is this acceptable?  We have the most successful gaming platform of this generation, and it uses the most sophisticated interface device we've ever seen in gaming.  We should be beyond "oh, it's good enough."  We should DEMAND excellence and originality because we as gamers deserve it, and not just give a pass to any flawed product that crosses our path just because it was well-intentioned and everything else is horrible by comparison.

Once again, all seeing eye. We'll see how it works.

Ok, once again I'm going to point you to a very simple problem: High Voltage is not marketing this game right.  I'm going to come right out and say that this is the first time I've ever heard of this All Seeing Eye, because I haven't given a crap about this game since it was announced.  The way the company's been clinging to IGN for exposure, I never gave them much thought.  But you know what?  Every once in a while I like to play a good FPS, so after finishing up Madworld last month I figured I might be interested in the Conduit.  Now, do you know who these trailer videos are supposed to be made for?  They're not made for people like you who follow the game, but for people like me who don't.  You're already going to buy it.  I'm not, so they have to convince me.  And you know what I see in that video?  A bunch of guns shooting a bunch of generic creatures in typical FPS settings and a shot or two of some eyeball thing causing a marker to appear on the wall in a shape akin to the Templar mark on the back of the dollar bill.  If the All Seeing Eye is supposed to be a major selling feature, why isn't it a major selling feature in that trailer?  Why is it I'm hearing from YOU about this instead of THEM in their marketing materials?  That's why I wonder if this company's just playing smoke & mirrors with this game, because if this was such a major feature you'd think it would feature more prominently in their promotional materials, with a short explanation of what this Eye is and why it's awesome.  But no, we get footage of generic FPS shooting action.

[broodwars]

Halo and Goldeneye are remembered for being awesome multiplayer experiences, because the FPS is a genre that caters well to multiplayer/party gaming.  The Conduit's going to have to work rather hard to accomplish that as well.

Care to share with us how Conduit's multiplayer is? You seem to already know enough about it to condemn it, I'd love to know!

Halo and Goldeneye's multiplayer is legendary.  It'd be hard for any game to measure up to that level of hype and nostalgia, and frankly even Halo had things like vehicles and whatnot to spice up multiplayer.  Have we seen that with The Conduit?

Also Goldeneye was remembered because it was really the first really well made FPS on consoles and set the standard for the genre.

Well that goes without saying, but when people talk about multiplayer chances are good that's the aspect that comes up the most because it WAS an awesome 4-player FPS game.

Oh yeah Mirror's Edge is NOT a FPS, in fact the game can be beaten by not shooting anyone. It is a hybrid something like Metroid Prime was. If you want to make a fair comparison compare it to:

And if you read my post correctly, you'd have seen that I never called it a First Person Shooter.  I called it a First Person game, and it happens to feature (apparently bad) FPS shooting segments.  But my argument stands: that game took a stale genre and carved out its own unique niche by pursuing First Person platforming, and whether you like it or not you can't say it isn't its own game.  Bioshock took the stale FPS genre and carved out its own niche by pursuing layered storytelling and a unique world with its own ethical standards, and whether you like it or not you can't say it isn't its own game.  Now, is The Conduit its own game?

[GoldenPhoenix]

The trailer is for people who HAVE been following the game to see its progress. Marketing to those who don't know much about it will begin when Sega starts up the pre-launch campaign. Right now those who have been following it have been primarily interested in how the visuals are improving, you may not care about that aspect but that is what many who are anticipating the game are focused on. They've talked quite a bit about the All Seeing Eye and how they've been working hard to modify it to make for fun exploration in the game along with puzzle solving.

Also there is NOTHING I mean NOTHING wrong with using IGN to get the game out to the public, it is a big thank you to them for getting the game noticed in the first place. The Conduit wasn't being ignored by publishers because it was "generic" it was ignored because publishers felt the Wii audience would not buy a more traditional game like it. Thanks to IGN the game got noticed, and THROUGH IGN people who are interested in the Conduit have been having unprecedented access to help influence the game.

There is a reason why they've focused on the visuals, because that is what the majority of people who've been supporting this game want to see. It SHOULD NOT be indictment of what the final product will be like.

Halo and Goldeneye's multiplayer is legendary.  It'd be hard for any game to measure up to that level of hype and nostalgia, and frankly even Halo had things like vehicles and whatnot to spice up multiplayer.  Have we seen that with The Conduit?

Cod4 is widely regarded as having one of the best multiplayer modes right now and it does not allow you to ride in vehicles. Vehicles are a gimmick if they aren't used properly, you can have a compelling experience without them.

And if you read my post correctly, you'd have seen that I never called it a First Person Shooter.  I called it a First Person game, and it happens to feature (apparently bad) FPS shooting segments.  But my argument stands: that game took a stale genre and carved out its own unique niche by pursuing First Person platforming, and whether you like it or not you can't say it isn't its own game.  Bioshock took the stale FPS genre and carved out its own niche by pursuing layered storytelling and a unique world with its own ethical standards, and whether you like it or not you can't say it isn't its own game.  Now, is The Conduit its own game?

Still it is a poor comparison. It is like comparing Metroid Prime to Halo and indicting Halo for not being as innovative. Not much I can say about Bioshock because I think it was a ground breaking title, one that only comes around once every several years.

[broodwars]

Also I don't think I "deserve" anything game related, talk about a selfish attitude. I take that back, many gamers deserve to be dropped on their head from some building.

I'm the consumer, and they're the developer.  They make their games to satisfy ME because in the end I pay their salaries, so you'd better believe I deserve a quality product, as does every gamer on every system.  I don't know when mediocrity became a selling point and something people actually defend, but it's a sad day for gaming indeed if that has become the standard.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Also I don't think I "deserve" anything game related, talk about a selfish attitude. I take that back, many gamers deserve to be dropped on their head from some building.

I'm the consumer, and they're the developer.  They make their games to satisfy ME because in the end I pay their salaries, so you'd better believe I deserve a quality product, as does every gamer on every system.  I don't know when mediocrity became a selling point and something people actually defend, but it's a sad day for gaming indeed if that has become the standard.

In your opinion. I think Conduit looks like a really fun FPS that will be improved dramatically by the controls and the ability to play people here online. It will all come down to how well it is designed. Also how is mediocre a selling point for Conduit? They may emphasize the visuals, but that doesn't mean they are emphasizing mediocrity because the visuals are pretty good even if it is just one part of the game.

 What is sad is when someone takes their opinion and slaps it on a game as fact, not all of us view Conduit as mediocre (brilliant straw man there!). Will it be great? I don't know, but it has promise from the interviews I've read and the hands on impressions of it.  What is hilarious is that you insult myself and others that are excited for the game when I've probably played more FPS games then you ever have for ALL systems, I was playing the FPS genre back when Wolfenstein 3D was new. If I truly believed Conduit would be mediocre and lacked fun I wouldn't be defending it.

[broodwars]

Now, before this spirals radically out of control I do want to remind you of something, Golden Phoenix, because I said it early in the topic: I WANT High Voltage to succeed.  I WANT the Conduit to be an awesome game, and I WANT them to convince me to buy it because I take pride in rewarding good 3rd Party Wii Support.  But you know what?  I'm just not feeling it here.  I'm just giving you my impressions based on what they've put out right here, and it's not my job as consumer to follow every piece of paper they put out on the game.  I can if I so choose, but I should be able to take a look at any individual piece of propaganda they put out and immediately understand what they want people to take from this game.  This is a bad trailer for marketing to an audience who hasn't followed their every movement, so if they want to impress they'd better have a better trailer waiting in the wings for when they are ready to get serious about the marketing.  Because you know what?  Stuff like this trailer may satiate the already-converted, but the already-converted are not going to make this game a success, and we've all seen from Nintendo's half-assed last-minute marketing how well those 11th hour  marketing blitzes do.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Stuff like this trailer may satiate the already-converted, but the already-converted are not going to make this game a success, and we've all seen from Nintendo's half-assed last-minute marketing how well those 11th hour  marketing blitzes do.

Nintendo is not marketing the title, Sega is, Sega has been marketing their core games quite well on Wii even if sales have been lame. Also I would think if someone wanted a well informed opinion they'd do some research on a game other then watching teaser trailers or the rare press release. I've seen far too many good games or movies with lame trailers that I would have missed out on if I hadn't done some extra research to make myself a well informed consumer. Don't believe I've ever based my buying decision on a trailer or let it radically affect my opinion of a game. Now I'd say if the teaser trailer was the ONLY thing we know about the game (like Zelda; Spirit Tracks) then I can see letting it, at most, give you an idea of what the game is like.