Topic: The Death of a Zelda Fan: my WW experience

[Luciferschild]

I just got done palying wind waker and I must say that I can no longer call myself a zelda fan. Actually I stopped being a zelda fan when I first saw the screens of wind waker way back when because I was horrified then and with good reason. After playing this game for a few minutes I wanted to quit but forced myself to keep playing so that my opinion of the game would have credibility. I won’t go into specifics about the games graphics because I’ve already done that in previous posts. Walking around in previous zelda games (oot, mm) I experienced a sense of joy, everything was beautiful, controlling link was a joy. In this game the feeling was more akin to being torchured. Miyamoto said “once you play the game you will forget about the graphics.” Okay, now I think I get it, you’re supposed to play the game blindfolded right? But I didn’t find any blindfold with this game, so where’s my blindfold Miyamoto, where’s my blindfold? Also I’m wondering about the arrows over enemies heads and the telescope thing because they remind me an awful lot of SFA. Hmmm, why would they copy a two bit game like star fox adventures. At no time during this game did I feel like I was playing the legend of zelda, it felt more like I was playing Disney Adventures or Smurfs On Acid, those would have been more appropriate titles. To take a franchise that’s not kiddie and make it ULTRA-kiddie is just plain wrong man. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game prior to this that I would describe as kiddie but this game is definitely kiddie, it feels like it was made for 2 year olds. I accept that some of you guys like this game but it’s really hard for me to believe, I feel like I’m in the twilight zone. I guess nintendo does attract a lot of 2 year olds and people who are into teletubbies. They really shouldn’t have called this game the legend of zelda. Replace link with Ariel from the little mermaid and call it the legend of dwarf people with gigantic heads. Then it might have been okay. But seriously I would have to be on crack to play this game any longer and I don’t do drugs. I rank it right up there with superman 64, except superman 64 was a little easier on the eyes. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying this game is terrible I’m just saying that I’m not into the whole disney/kiddie thing, besides most disney movies are more mature than this game. It’s better than SFA but that’s not saying much. I’m just going to pretend zelda ended with majora’s mask and that this game doesn’t exist. Hopefully nintendo will make a REAL zelda game someday but that would be too good to be true. Because cussing isn’t allowed on here I can’t give my true opinion of this game and how much I hate it. Well it’s back to playing the kick ass game I was playing, thank god for Skies of Arcadia.  

[Caliban]

 Did you play "The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past " before in your life? If you did I don't see your problem about Wind Waker. If your anger towards WW is because of its graphics then you should be also annoyed about ALTTP which also looks cartoonish. What about the gameplay in WW did you like the other items that are available throughout the entire adventure? I think that the telescope for me is useless because i almost never used it except in the beginning of the game but the main scenery of this game is islands and lots of water so there is no inconvenience about the telescope. I don't understand what you were trying to say about the arrows can you explain it in more detail.
In my opinion this game is a masterpiece in terms of graphics and particularly the particle effects(smoke, fire, water...) even some enemies look outstanding, in terms of gameplay I see only two problems: 1- the picture box can only keep three photos at a time, 2- the guy from the Nintendo Gallery only accepts one photo at a time. Overall my WW experience was terrific and only Metroid Prime is comparable.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Quote
Originally posted by: Luciferschild
*bunch of stuff*.

Now that was a weak argument.  You've successfully (mis)judged a book by its cover, its table of contents, and its prologue.

[VideoGamerX]

The arrows over the other character's heads are to show you who you're locked on to. That was a major annoyance in Ocarina of Time because it was impossible to lock onto an enemy, know what you're locked on to, and change from enemy to enemy. It was a complete struggle to use the lock-on function.

I don't know how you can call the graphics in Ocarina of Time beautiful, specifically the scenery. While the graphics overall are great, the color scheme is sickening. Hyrule needed more colors. It probably didn't help that we start off in the Kokiri forest that looks like a big sewer with green crap smeared all over everything. There was a lot to be desired in OoT's world.

I'm not calling Wind Waker the greatest game ever, but it does a lot of things that Ocarina of Time needed to do. In my book, a Link to the Past still mops the floor with all of the Zelda offerings since its release.

[mouse_clicker]

I have to say it's pretty pathetic when you stop playing an entire videogame series (one of the best, mind you, if not THE best) because of a single game. You've got a lot of issues to sort out, man. : | How long have you been playing Zelda? Let me guess- since Ocarina of Time? Look, if you go into something with pre-misconceptions you're OBVIOUSLY going to find things that support them. I really feel sorry for you that you're so shallow you can't get past an experience. Whatever, not my loss.

[Caliban]

 

Quote
Originally posted by:VideoGamerX
The arrows over the other character's heads are to show you who you're locked on to. That was a major annoyance in Ocarina of Time because it was impossible to lock onto an enemy, know what you're locked on to, and change from enemy to enemy. It was a complete struggle to use the lock-on function.

I thought he (Luciferschild) was talking about the arrows for the bow, no wonder i was confused about his remarks on the arrows but still i see no problem with the L-targeting in WW it's the same or better than OOT.

[mouse_clicker]

Hey, are you THE Caliban, from IGN? If so, I hope you can guess who I am.

[Strell]

Another mindless teenager who thinks graphics = the game, and that you need blood and guts and gore in order for a game to be good.

Good riddence to you.  What can I say?  The world needs more people with TASTE.

Here's a hint: Get over yourself and stop pretending that you're some sort of demigod because you consider your opinion worthwhile.  It's not.  Don't even respond to this, you've opened your mouth and removed all doubt, so to speak.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

[TheCouch123]

If you can show me some proof that a kid 7 or younger can beat this game without help from someone older i will admit Zelda is kiddy and never play Zelda again. What? You can't? Oh then i'm off to play the 3rd best game ever   GameRankings Bye.  

[Marcus Arillius]

Quote
Originally posted by: Caliban
Did you play "The Legend Of Zelda: A Link To The Past " before in your life? If you did I don't see your problem about Wind Waker. If your anger towards WW is because of its graphics then you should be also annoyed about ALTTP which also looks cartoonish. ]\

I'm not taking either side here, but I don't see how you can use the "Link to the Past" argument to justify the graphics in Wind Waker.  The graphics in link to the past were not "cartoony" at all.  They were what they could do on the snes.  

[Mr_Denim]

Gentlefolk...fret not, considering the amount of hoopla and general praise the game has garnered throughout gamedom at large...this fellows opinion is by far in the minority. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't like it and no amount of castigation is going to change his mind. He's entitled to whatever opinion he formulates based on whatever criteria he uses to judge games.

When I saw the first pics of Zelda on the net, like many others I was dismayed...I've since changed my mind. I was immediately taken with the new look when I saw it on my TV for the first time and held the controller in my hand. Nor do I give a flying fig what other people think of the game per se, nor any opinion they may have of me because I like it. *I* and mine enjoy it and are glad we made the purchase. It's bloody well fun...and this from a 'mature' gamer.

[GoldShadow1]

I think LTTP was slightly cartoony, even for the SNES, although I know what you mean.  Compare LTTP to another SNES game like Super Metroid or Final Fantasy and you'll see what I mean.  It's especially noticable in the style of the trees and the landscape.  I admit, though, I can't see anyway to do the characters or monsters without looking cartoony in that game - there's just not enough pixels for it, period.

I think LTTP is overrated, personally - not because of the graphics, but because of the dungeons.  They are occasionally irritating and nowhere near as captivating as some of the ones from OoT and MM (Forest Temple, stone temple... utterly amazing).  That said, LTTP is still a great game (especially on the overworld - I love to wander around, explore, and do a few side quests).

Anyway, I can't see how someone can hate WW that much.  It's a brilliant game.  Although the dungeons aren't as good as MM's from what I've seen (2 dungeons, not counting the first - if you've played the game, you know what I mean) the overworld is utterly amazing.    I'd love to see more games on a sea setting, now that I can see how it works.  Exploring around the vast ocean is very entertaining.  There are so many things to see!  Plus, the Battleship-clone guy is the most hilarious thing I've ever seen in a video game.

You know, thinking about this, I'd love to see a game like WW, but with a mix between seas and continents.  It'd especially be cool to sail down a long river and see all sorts of different diversions.  There could be two or three continents, with a huge ocean making up the rest, but done in a Zelda style, not Final Fantasy style where there are vast amounts of empty space with towns that all look the same.  Anyway....

I'm not a big fan of Link's character design, but it's growing on me.  I really don't see how someone can say the game is kiddy when sailing in the midst of a storm while rain pounds on your back and you approach a distant isle.  The style is cartoony, but the gameplay is universal.

[Luciferschild]

To reply to some of the critisism leveled at me I will say this. Where do I mention ALTTP in my post, I'm talking about Wind Waker. But you since you asked, no I didn't have any problem with a link to the past's graphics. As I've stated before I didn't find that games graphics to be cartoony, but I was younger back then so who knows. I don't think AATP is kiddie, it had the best graphics available for it's time. The only problem I had with that game is that is was too easy. I always liked the original nes legend of zelda a lot more than a link to the past, maybe because it was harder and had a darker feel to it or something, I don't know. Strell, if what you say is true, then why do I like Mario Sunshine? I bought that game. You are really far off man. I think that you guys and me are just a whole different breed because I love Oot and MM's graphics and I can't stand the way Wind Waker looks, hence the blindfold theory. I didn't find anything special about the gameplay, though the gameplay was pretty much irrelevant to me. I didn't have a problem with the lock on arrows, I was simply pointing out that they look eerily similar to sta. The first zelda game I played was the original and that was my favorite game ever until maybe Oot. That's great that you guys like this game I'm happy for you but I bet there are some other people out there that hate it like me, (yes I do hate it) or maybe I'm the only one. But I know that my brother hates it as well, maybe because he isn't into kiddie crap either. As for the series, I'll never play another zelda game that looks anything like this so unless they go in a whole different direction and away from the kiddieness you can count me out. On a final note, I don't pay much attention to game rankings, you can only tell if you like a game by playing it.  

[Luciferschild]

Strell I must of really gotten under your skin man. Calling me a "mindless teenager" when you don't even know how old I am. I was probably playing 8 bit videogames when you were still wearing diapers. Telling me not to respond, I thought the whole point of a message board was discussion. You should get off your high horse dude. How is expressing my opinion about a game being a demigod? Next time try coming at me with something that makes a little bit of sense okay.  

[Ridley]

If a graphical style is all it took to turn you off from the series, you were never a real fan to begin with.

[ThePerm]

are the naysayers never-players?

[Kimchi]

Just a question: How far into Wind Waker did you play?  You at least made it to when Aryll is saved, right?  That's when the plot really thickens.

[mouse_clicker]

You're still acting like a mindless teenager, luciferschild, even if you're 60. Also, how can you make a comment about Streel's age when you yourself said there's no way to find out people's age? That's a wee bit hypocritical, if you ask me.

[thecubedcanuck]

I disagree about the graphics, as I thought the game looked wonderful in motion.
However it was very mindless and clearly geared towards young children. I think to dispute that is to look at it with blinders on. Every last objective in the game was spoon fed to you, if you could read you could finish Zelda without dying and without the use of a guide, even if you were 7 years old and have never played a Zelda game.

I wanted this game for so long, and am so dissapointed in the finished product. It really could have been brilliant. Its just to bad it isn't.

[Syl]

WindWaker is an amazing game.
Period.

anyway, why are you comparing the graphics to the stuff in MM or OOT?

*SPOILER*] Hyrule field looks better cel-shaded anyway, if you played anywhere in the windwaker, you would know what im talking about.  The most amazing part of the game is when you see Hyrule castle, and most of hyrule field, in all of its Cel-shaded glory.  Hyrule has *always* been meant to be a cartoon, even OOT/MM had quite a few cartoony elements, the system just couldn't support it.
*END SPOILER*

Lucifer,  its really your fault if you care so much about graphics, I loved windwaker, and I'm going to be going back to pokemon after I'm done typing this.  Which im sure your going to make some sort of flame at me about after you read this post, but hey.. if you want to be a small minded fool.  Be it, doesnt matter to me if you want to look like an unintelligent, blockheaded idiot.

Also: I'm already on my second game through of windwaker, did i mention amazing game?

[The Omen]

YAWN

[Strell]

Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
I disagree about the graphics, as I thought the game looked wonderful in motion.
However it was very mindless and clearly geared towards young children. I think to dispute that is to look at it with blinders on. Every last objective in the game was spoon fed to you, if you could read you could finish Zelda without dying and without the use of a guide, even if you were 7 years old and have never played a Zelda game.

I wanted this game for so long, and am so dissapointed in the finished product. It really could have been brilliant. Its just to bad it isn't.

Sigh.  "Whine whine, game is linear, whine whine."  

You're going to have to show me a Zelda game where the plot isn't linear and where you aren't specifically told what to do for your next objective.  Original Zelda's dungeons are NUMBERED, Zelda 2 was much the same way, LTTP is no different from WW, neither is OoT or MM.

I'll let you have your (wrong) opinion, but don't say the game wasn't brilliant.  It was, it is, and it outclasses games left and right.

I think the source of a lot of people saying "OMG ZELDA SUXx0RS!"!"!"!!!"!""!" is the fact that Nintendo made it, and if they do one thing to alienate that fan, then the game sucks.  NO VOICE ACTING. LINK LOOKS STUPID.  CEL SHADING OMG.  GAME DOESN'T ME DO WHATEVER I WANT, I CAN'T MOLEST THE PIGS.  It's like this entire group of people is grasping at a straw of an argument and trying to pass it off as something significant, worthwhile, and credible.  LINK'S EYES ARE BLACK. STUPID.  UM...WATER ISN'T BLUE ENOUGH.  STUPID.  THE STUFF WITH THE THINGIES.  STUPID.

If WW had been left in terms of Spaceworld demo, people would have screamed NO ORIGINALITY.  So Ninendo does something different.  OMG THAT SUCKS.  There's no way to win.  You just have close minded people like cubed and Lucifer running around that make up their minds before they play the game.  Or they play about 3 hours into it and decide it sucks.  I mean, people have told me it's a crap game because the Forbidden Fortress requires some stealth action.  Wth?  Last time I checked, Splinter Cel and MGS -RELY- on that kind of gameplay the ENTIRE game, and people call it amazing.

It's just hard to consider your opinion valid when your argument is so weak.  That's all.

[Luciferschild]

I want to apalogize for some of my comments I went a little overboard. I was being an a-hole. But going on tirades like that can be fun, I crack myself up. The bit about the blindfold, that was classic. I don't hate the actual game ww, I just hate the fact that they didn't make the kind of zelda game I wanted them to. If I'm the only person alive who thinks this game looks freaken stupid so be it, there are other games to play. I lied about my brother, he hasn't even played the game, I just assumed that he wouldn't like it. Anyhow, I'm done ripping on wind waker, besides there's no one on here to back me up.  

[thecubedcanuck]

Quote
You just have close minded people like cubed and Lucifer running around that make up their minds before they play the game. Or they play about 3 hours into it and decide it sucks.

pardon me?

I have played the game, from begining to end. I based my opinion on my experience with the game. The game was brutally boring IMO. I already said it looked brilliant, the control was also great IMO, but the "game" itself was terrible IMO.

I dont say this just because Nintendo made it, I could care less who makes what. I love wave race and Nintendo made it? I love Mario 64 and Nintendo made that?

Quote
Sigh. "Whine whine, game is linear, whine whine."

it is, how can you honestly say it isnt?

As for no voice acting, I really dont care. I just would rather not spend 1/3 of my gaming time reading, I have an extensive library of books for that.

I still have to wonder why you choose to throw around insults to prove your point.  I see no need for it.

I am very open minded when it comes to gaming. I have all 3 systems and play a wide variety of games. So how can you say I am close minded, I honestly think that is very far from the truth.

[Strell]

I didn't say the game was NOT linear.  You need to understand what I'm saying, and you're not.  That's probably my fault, but I'm not one to care.

Game is linear in the sense that, yes, unfortunately, you MUST do things in a specific order.  But I took several hours off between the dungeons to just go around and find stuff to do, things to see, people to talk to.  I had Triforce maps BEFORE I got into the Tower of the Gods.

The game is linear in the sense that you need to do dungeon A before B.  But you don't have to go specifically to dungeon B after A.  You can sail around and slap salmon for all the game cares.  

That, actually, is pretty much the defenition of non-linearity.  So I correct myself - I AM saying the game isn't linear.

Go compare it to, say, GTA.  Same idea.  You have missions, you do them in order.  But there's a metric crapload of side quests/mini games/missions/etc that you can do instead IF YOU WANT.  You've already said you don't like side quests and whatnot.  So my previous point stands - there's just no pleasing you.  You're going to latch onto something you hate and try with all your might to pass it off as valid.  I guess there's no shame in such tenacity, but only if you live in Bizarro World.

And you say you love Wave Race and Mario 64?  Then please, tell me what is so wrong about Sunshine, since you blaringly hate it so much, and it's essentially the same game.  Chacnes are your reasoning for that isn't much stronger than what you've laid to Zelda.  Just to let you know, I'm expecting a "I hate islands" reason, or something along that nature.

As far as insults go, I'm going pretty easy these days, since Bloodworth is no doubt watching me like a hawk.  If calling you close minded is more an insult and less an observation, then I dunno what devices I have left afforded to me.  I don't cuss, but I see such words thrown around without regard, as well as people flat out insulting people with words meant SOLELY for that nature.  So you're really goign to haev to stop playing the "dont insult me" card, because it's far weaker than your current statements.

But you can try to prove me wrong.  I'll say this - I'm not going to hold my breath.