Author Topic: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??  (Read 15104 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

  • HI I'M CRAZY
  • Score: 28
    • View Profile
    • Six Sided Video
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2009, 08:51:11 PM »
Or make it onrails ship flying levels like StarFox Adventures.

thread destroyed
:: Six Sided Video .com ~ Pietriots.com ::
PRO IS SERIOUS. GET SERIOUS.

Offline MoronSonOfBoron

  • Little Black Rain Cloud
  • *
  • Score: 8
    • View Profile
    • moronsonofboron @ deviantART
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2009, 12:13:32 AM »
For the past two Pikmin games, the Pikmin have unquestioningly served Olimar and other captains, never flinching in the face of danger and often flinging themselves towards certain doom. There is a simple devotion and dependency here that was eventually translated into famous Pikmin "Ai no Uta", or Love Song. Indeed, who here can forget the subtle emotional bond observable when Olimar first escaped the Pikmin Planet?

I've played both Pikmin games extensively, but losing Pikmin has never been easy, even when you could freely replenish your Pikmin numbers by revisiting the onions. For me, the feeling of loss when a single Pikmin died was a strong emotional discouragement against feckless tactics and bad decisions.

Looking at the ideas in this thread has raised in me the notion that a lot of what other people see in the Pikmin games are the themes of conquest, expansion, and exploitation.

Do you remember how in Pikmin 2, Olimar's company sent him back to the Pikmin Planet to essentially exploit and harvest its resources? Imagine that this becomes the norm: Pikmin are being domesticated and used as slave labor, paving the way for large companies to plunder the Pikmin Planet for treasure, leading to unchecked prospecting and the eventual establishment of colonies. Pikmin themselves are being altered for use by the companies: genetically modified Onions produce purple and white Pikmin, for example.

Olimar is recruited into one of these colonization efforts, and the first part of the game deals with him using Pikmin as part of the mining efforts: gathering treasure, clearing out wildlife, and such. Some of the puzzles here would involve using Pikmin to gather parts and assemble machines, and learning to use the new features and gadgets employed by companies to "farm" and organize Pikmin.

Eventually, the Pikmin are recruited to help assemble what amounts to the atomic bomb: a terraforming device. To further the expansion taking place on the Pikmin Planet, it is essential that its environment be made non-toxic to Olimar's people, even if doing so would wipe out life on the planet. Faced with the unblinking beady little eyes of Pikmin he has raised from pellet to full bloom, Olimar turns against the companies, swearing to undo the damage they are causing before it goes too far.

In this frantic second half of the game, the puzzles and exploration from the first game are now joined with the combat and tactics of the second as the player works to reverse-engineer and disable the colonies and their machines. Olimar will still have the new tools to control the Pikmin; they will simply be more difficult to use or replace. Pikmin armies controlled by the colony would also reintroduce the PvP aspects that were touched upon in Pikmin 2; this could help players prime themselves for online combat, as well. Olimar will have the opportunity to liberate enslaved Pikmin Onions, bolstering his own army or adding special varieties that were bred or genetically altered by the companies (some of which he had worked with while employed).

So the Pikmin story comes full circle: Olimar ultimately owes his life to the Pikmin, and they in turn need his guidance to escape certain doom.

But that's just an idea I had.
Eat lightning and crap thunder.

Offline AV

  • Score: -4
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2009, 12:59:28 AM »
For the past two Pikmin games, the Pikmin have unquestioningly served Olimar and other captains, never flinching in the face of danger and often flinging themselves towards certain doom. There is a simple devotion and dependency here that was eventually translated into famous Pikmin "Ai no Uta", or Love Song. Indeed, who here can forget the subtle emotional bond observable when Olimar first escaped the Pikmin Planet?

I've played both Pikmin games extensively, but losing Pikmin has never been easy, even when you could freely replenish your Pikmin numbers by revisiting the onions. For me, the feeling of loss when a single Pikmin died was a strong emotional discouragement against feckless tactics and bad decisions.

Looking at the ideas in this thread has raised in me the notion that a lot of what other people see in the Pikmin games are the themes of conquest, expansion, and exploitation.

Do you remember how in Pikmin 2, Olimar's company sent him back to the Pikmin Planet to essentially exploit and harvest its resources? Imagine that this becomes the norm: Pikmin are being domesticated and used as slave labor, paving the way for large companies to plunder the Pikmin Planet for treasure, leading to unchecked prospecting and the eventual establishment of colonies. Pikmin themselves are being altered for use by the companies: genetically modified Onions produce purple and white Pikmin, for example.

Olimar is recruited into one of these colonization efforts, and the first part of the game deals with him using Pikmin as part of the mining efforts: gathering treasure, clearing out wildlife, and such. Some of the puzzles here would involve using Pikmin to gather parts and assemble machines, and learning to use the new features and gadgets employed by companies to "farm" and organize Pikmin.

Eventually, the Pikmin are recruited to help assemble what amounts to the atomic bomb: a terraforming device. To further the expansion taking place on the Pikmin Planet, it is essential that its environment be made non-toxic to Olimar's people, even if doing so would wipe out life on the planet. Faced with the unblinking beady little eyes of Pikmin he has raised from pellet to full bloom, Olimar turns against the companies, swearing to undo the damage they are causing before it goes too far.

In this frantic second half of the game, the puzzles and exploration from the first game are now joined with the combat and tactics of the second as the player works to reverse-engineer and disable the colonies and their machines. Olimar will still have the new tools to control the Pikmin; they will simply be more difficult to use or replace. Pikmin armies controlled by the colony would also reintroduce the PvP aspects that were touched upon in Pikmin 2; this could help players prime themselves for online combat, as well. Olimar will have the opportunity to liberate enslaved Pikmin Onions, bolstering his own army or adding special varieties that were bred or genetically altered by the companies (some of which he had worked with while employed).

So the Pikmin story comes full circle: Olimar ultimately owes his life to the Pikmin, and they in turn need his guidance to escape certain doom.

But that's just an idea I had.

Pikmin + World of Goo ??? FTW.

I also love " Cute borg" that ian said.

I think RFN should take this topic and discuss it on the podcast. We are getting some fantastic ideas from everyone.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2009, 01:56:09 PM »
Quote
Of course that'd be too complicated for nongamers.

SO?!

I like MoronSonOfBoron's idea.  In fact it sounds more like a storyline Nintendo would do over any of the other story ideas that have been thrown around.  And it keeps Olimar in the series in a non-contrived way.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

  • Voice of Reason
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2009, 05:08:17 PM »
The only problem with MoronSonOfBoron's idea is that it might be too serious a story for a Pikmin game, but I like it a lot.  I can picture battles for control of enemy onions, leaving a squad of Pikmin at your own onions to protect them from Olimar's co-workers trying to do the same, and maybe even being able to construct base defenses that your Pikmin could operate.

Offline vudu

  • You'd probably all be better off if I really were dead.
  • NWR Junior Ranger
  • Score: -19
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2009, 05:17:16 PM »
PIKMIN MASS GENOCIDE

EXTERMINATE (WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE) THE BLUE PIKMIN
Why must all things be so bright? Why can things not appear only in hues of brown! I am so serious about this! Dull colors are the future! The next generation! I will never accept a world with such bright colors! It is far too childish! I will rage against your cheery palette with my last breath!

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2009, 05:43:46 PM »
Quote
The only problem with MoronSonOfBoron's idea is that it might be too serious a story for a Pikmin game

Well Pikmin is kind of a dark game anyway.  When you get killed in Mario do you really feel it?  Nah.  But you lose any Pikmin due to carelessness and you feel like crap.  There's also the fact that none of the enemies are actually evil, but are just predators trying to survive as much as you are.  The first game also has the real possibility of Olimar not succeeding and dying, leaving behind his family.  There's no continue screen.  You screw up and not get all the parts in time Olimar is dead.  It looks cute in screenshots but Pikmin is one of Nintendo's most serious and mature franchises.

If anything my problem with MoronSonOfBoron's idea is that it introduces actual evil into the story, instead of just being about survival in nature.  It also lacks subtlety as I think it's kind of funny to imagine kids innocently playing Pikmin, completely oblivious to what a morally ambiguous game it is.  But it is a really good storyline idea that makes sense.

Though I wonder exactly how Miyamoto sees Pikmin.  I wonder if we see more in it than he intended.

I have thought of another storyline idea that could involve Olimar.  Perhaps some ecosystem has had Bulborbs introduced to it and they're overrunning the place without natural predators.  So Olimar rounds up some Pikmin to solve the problem.  It introduces a new environment and a whole list of new creatures (minus the Bulborbs of course) and is a story that involves Olimar but not in a contrived way.

Offline UltimatePartyBear

  • Voice of Reason
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2009, 06:17:47 PM »
If anything my problem with MoronSonOfBoron's idea is that it introduces actual evil into the story, instead of just being about survival in nature.  It also lacks subtlety as I think it's kind of funny to imagine kids innocently playing Pikmin, completely oblivious to what a morally ambiguous game it is.  But it is a really good storyline idea that makes sense.

Pikmin 2 introduced good old corporate greed already, didn't it?  I guess that was still about survival in a sense, but corporate exploitation of the Pikmin follows very smoothly from there.  If you want moral ambiguity, just consider the implications of Olimar turning on his own people and starting a Pikmin civil war.

Quote
Though I wonder exactly how Miyamoto sees Pikmin.  I wonder if we see more in it than he intended.

Pikmin is a lot like an episode of Muppet Babies about gardening, i.e. turning growing flowers into an adventure.  Gonzo would take the side of the bugs and keeping the others from using pesticide, leading up to a lesson from Nanny about how every living thing has the right to live.  (I don't know where that came from.)  Anyway, Miyamoto's take on it would be like the blurb in the TV listings that reads, "The kids have an adventure in a flower bed," and our take on it would be a doctoral thesis entitled "Environmental Activism in Children's Television Programming."  It's what fans do.

Offline Kairon

  • T_T
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: 48
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2009, 02:27:34 AM »
GOD my brother's awesome.
Carmine Red, Associate Editor

A glooming peace this morning with it brings;
The sun, for sorrow, will not show his head:
Go hence, to have more talk of these sad things;
Some shall be pardon'd, and some punished:
For never was a story of more woe
Than this of Sega and her Mashiro.

Offline AV

  • Score: -4
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2009, 05:51:47 PM »
Quote
The only problem with MoronSonOfBoron's idea is that it might be too serious a story for a Pikmin game

Well Pikmin is kind of a dark game anyway.  When you get killed in Mario do you really feel it?  Nah.  But you lose any Pikmin due to carelessness and you feel like crap.  There's also the fact that none of the enemies are actually evil, but are just predators trying to survive as much as you are.  The first game also has the real possibility of Olimar not succeeding and dying, leaving behind his family.  There's no continue screen.  You screw up and not get all the parts in time Olimar is dead.  It looks cute in screenshots but Pikmin is one of Nintendo's most serious and mature franchises.

If anything my problem with MoronSonOfBoron's idea is that it introduces actual evil into the story, instead of just being about survival in nature.  It also lacks subtlety as I think it's kind of funny to imagine kids innocently playing Pikmin, completely oblivious to what a morally ambiguous game it is.  But it is a really good storyline idea that makes sense.

Though I wonder exactly how Miyamoto sees Pikmin.  I wonder if we see more in it than he intended.

I have thought of another storyline idea that could involve Olimar.  Perhaps some ecosystem has had Bulborbs introduced to it and they're overrunning the place without natural predators.  So Olimar rounds up some Pikmin to solve the problem.  It introduces a new environment and a whole list of new creatures (minus the Bulborbs of course) and is a story that involves Olimar but not in a contrived way.

The fact Nintendo decided to add souls to ALL THE CREATURES AND SCREAMS OF DEATH are subtle things that are really dark. It's a little odd you kill babies of a bulborbs that sleep near the mother.

I really think this is a much darker game than people realize. Just actually read some of the journals.

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2009, 05:53:28 PM »
Its dark in the way the Lion King is dark.
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline Stratos

  • Stale lazy meme pirate
  • Score: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2009, 05:54:57 PM »
I thought the little Bulborbs were actually just different species instead of babies. But you still feel a but sad when you pick off one of the little ones and carry it's body off while the rest sleep blissfully unawares.
...I'm a baby killer...BWAHAHAHA!
My Game Collection
NNID: Chronocast
Switch: SW-6786-5514-9978
3DS Friend Code: 0447-5723-6467
XBL Gamertag: Chronocast

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2009, 06:03:16 PM »
"LOOK INSIDE YOURSELF, OLIMAR! YOU ARE MY SON, AND THE ONE TRUE KING!"

Is it wrong that I always laughed when I faced the "baby kiliing" situation. I always tried to be as stealthy as possible; making sure to take them out quick lest alert the mother. I like to talk in a "gringo" accent aswell, like "Crikey! Look over there, a mother crocodile and her young. Good Lord! Look at that huge mouth! I better be careful."

*The noise of pikmin flying through the air*
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline Stratos

  • Stale lazy meme pirate
  • Score: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2009, 06:10:00 PM »
I've never heard the term 'gringo' used to refer to Steve Irwin type Australian accents. Then again, I've never been to Australia so maybe it's a regional thing based on where you live.


Back to topic, I asked my little sis what she wanted to see in a Wii Pikmin game and she said whe wanted to be able to fling the Pikmin with the remote like you throw stuff in Boom Blox. It would be tedious when you are throwing a lot of them, but for precision throwing it could work. Maybe to dictate where bombs are thrown to avoid those clumsy bomb mistakes that kill all your pikmin.
My Game Collection
NNID: Chronocast
Switch: SW-6786-5514-9978
3DS Friend Code: 0447-5723-6467
XBL Gamertag: Chronocast

Offline Stogi

  • The Stratos You Should All Try To Be Like
  • Score: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2009, 06:15:29 PM »
Ya i guess gringo just means "white."
black fairy tales are better at sports

Offline TJ Spyke

  • Ass
  • Score: -1350
    • View Profile
    • Spyke Shop
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2009, 06:31:38 PM »
I've never heard the term 'gringo' used to refer to Steve Irwin type Australian accents. Then again, I've never been to Australia so maybe it's a regional thing based on where you live.
ombs are thrown to avoid those clumsy bomb mistakes that kill all your pikmin.

"Gringo" is a term that is sometimes used to describe any non-native speakers of Spanish. It's usually only used for North Americans and Europeans though.

Also, Dwarf Bulborbs are not baby Bulborbs. They are a subspecies of the Breadbug family.
Help out a poor college student, buy video games and Blu-ray Discs at: http://astore.amazon.com/spyke-20

Offline Stratos

  • Stale lazy meme pirate
  • Score: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2009, 06:34:59 PM »
Reading about the creatures in Pikmin is extremely fascinating. There is a good deal of time and effort that went into the creature design.
My Game Collection
NNID: Chronocast
Switch: SW-6786-5514-9978
3DS Friend Code: 0447-5723-6467
XBL Gamertag: Chronocast

Offline MoronSonOfBoron

  • Little Black Rain Cloud
  • *
  • Score: 8
    • View Profile
    • moronsonofboron @ deviantART
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2009, 07:42:10 PM »
Reading about the creatures in Pikmin is extremely fascinating. There is a good deal of time and effort that went into the creature design.
I spent quite a lot of time poring through the Piklopedia, myself! I imagine that studying the behaviors of the native wildlife, and subsequently subverting them, would make for an interesting gameplay mechanic if taken a step further.
Eat lightning and crap thunder.

Offline Ian Sane

  • Champion for Urban Champion
  • Score: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2009, 07:51:29 PM »
I think with the Bulborbs the red ones are a mimic species that look like baby Bulborbs but the black ones actually are babies.  Or something like that.

All that detail just made the game that much better.  After completing a day in Pikmin 2 I would just pour over all the new information I had obtained.  That was a big part of the hook of the game for me.  Kinda like the scans in Metroid Prime.  I figure some people would call that an OCD way of playing a game but to me it's just part of the exploration.

I think an exploration game with no real conflict that plays almost like edutainment but with a completely fictional world would be a blast.  Probably way too uncommercial but I would get a real kick out of it.  Nintendo did something like that with Endless Ocean but that was the real world.  That's just not as interesting.

Offline Stratos

  • Stale lazy meme pirate
  • Score: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2009, 09:28:00 PM »
Good thoughts Ian and MSB (I'd call you Moron for short but that feels wrong, guess I could be unlazy and type out your full name but..)

I liked reading the Scans in Prime, the side stories in Mario Galaxy, the logs and piklopedia in Pikmin and anything like that in other games. I just love getting sucked into the nuances of a story's universe.
My Game Collection
NNID: Chronocast
Switch: SW-6786-5514-9978
3DS Friend Code: 0447-5723-6467
XBL Gamertag: Chronocast

Offline Mop it up

  • And I've gotta say...
  • Score: 125
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2009, 11:09:25 PM »
Good thoughts Ian and MSB (I'd call you Moron for short but that feels wrong, guess I could be unlazy and type out your full name but..)
In the time it took you to write all of that you could have written out his name several times.

Offline tombo125

  • Score: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2009, 12:10:44 AM »
The return of the time (day) limit would be amazing to me.  In pikmin 2 I would try not to have less than like 1000 of each pikmin and it became no fun cuz I was not trying to kill any pikmin and just get more.  I played the first Pikmin like 3 times all the way through and I only got three areas in Pikmin 2 to explore before I got bored.  I am sure I am in the minority tho so I just hope that there is maybe 2 modes like that.  You could choose between Pikmin 1 style and Pikmin 2 style and use the same levels and just change the story a little bit to make it seem reasonable,

Offline Stratos

  • Stale lazy meme pirate
  • Score: 70
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2009, 12:32:42 AM »
The return of the time (day) limit would be amazing to me.  In pikmin 2 I would try not to have less than like 1000 of each pikmin and it became no fun cuz I was not trying to kill any pikmin and just get more.  I played the first Pikmin like 3 times all the way through and I only got three areas in Pikmin 2 to explore before I got bored.  I am sure I am in the minority tho so I just hope that there is maybe 2 modes like that.  You could choose between Pikmin 1 style and Pikmin 2 style and use the same levels and just change the story a little bit to make it seem reasonable,

You are not alone in that thought Tombo. There have been a number of other members who preferred the first from the second. I like your idea of having both available. Maybe the first part is timed and then once you accomplish that you get the opportunity to carry on in the world for the after game. Maybe there could be timed missions you can take where there is a limited number of days to complete them.
My Game Collection
NNID: Chronocast
Switch: SW-6786-5514-9978
3DS Friend Code: 0447-5723-6467
XBL Gamertag: Chronocast

Offline UltimatePartyBear

  • Voice of Reason
  • Score: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2009, 01:10:27 PM »
Also, Dwarf Bulborbs are not baby Bulborbs. They are a subspecies of the Breadbug family.

I know the game says that, but I have to wonder if that was just Olimar's alien perspective leading him to false conclusions.


Maybe there could be timed missions you can take where there is a limited number of days to complete them.

Ingenious.  I can see that working with the constructing safe havens idea from before.  You enter a new area, and you have a limited number of days to gather parts for a safe haven or else you'll be forced to abandon the area and try again.

Of course, the whole safe haven idea is threatened by the onions' ability to fly.  Maybe they can evolve an upgraded, permanently rooted form that generates more and/or better Pikmin, e.g. they bloom faster in the ground or have higher base stats.  Maybe not completing the timed mission to build a safe spot for a rooted onion simply forces you to go without the upgrade in that area.  Maybe choosing to stick with mobile onions has its own advantages, like being able to call them to you or choosing new landing spots.

Offline NWR_insanolord

  • Rocket Fuel Malt Liquor....DAMN!
  • NWR Staff Pro
  • Score: -18986
    • View Profile
Re: Pikmin 3: What advancements in gameplay do you want to see ??
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2009, 01:17:39 PM »
Also, Dwarf Bulborbs are not baby Bulborbs. They are a subspecies of the Breadbug family.

I know the game says that, but I have to wonder if that was just Olimar's alien perspective leading him to false conclusions.


It's funny that you pointed out how the fans probably see a lot more depth in the game than is actually intended and then you post that.
Insanolord is a terrible moderator.

J.P. Corbran
NWR Community Manager and Soccer Correspondent